"Planning Sci-Fi Forces" Topic

So, as I sit down and take an accounting of my various 15mm sci-fi forces, I find that I have a sort of hodge podge of this and that. Made up of ideas that went nowhere or one-off modelling projects intended for nothing in particular as well as unfinished planned forces, I cannot help but wonder what others have done to plan their forces.

I am sure that for some this comes naturally or they are using figures designed in concert with one another for existing systems and possibly rethemed to their own universe as a whole.

However, for those who have built their forces from bits here and there, I would ask, how did you go about it?

Thank you,

-Eli

I purchased infantry figures that looked good and fun to paint. Once I had a couple of squads (20 – 30 ish) I then added a few pieces of armour and then fleshed out with heavy weapons and more vehicles.

Main problem is the rule set – these normally dictate the unit sizes etc. but not having settled on any one set it left me floundering until I decided 'what the heck' I am in charge of the army not a rule writer

Sorry I cannot be more help
Andrew
blog.kings-sleep.me.uk

Most of my sci-fi stuff came from playing Traveller. I bought figures to suit our scenarios. Then I moved to Laserburn and Imperial Commander. At that time I started actually buying complete forces. I still bought a variety of figures to suit the role-playing / skirmish level game but I also made sure that I bought complete units for the larger games.

I suppose a lot of it does come down to what looks cool, but is there ever a point where you start thinking that maybe you are making your force too all-encompassing and that they are looking a little less cohessive?

-Eli

I currently have 4 (well, 3.5) forces from 3 different manufacturers. How I keep myself on track is pretty simple- I've turned into a bit of a TO&E nut, so I start with the platoon level TO&E I want the force to use. THEN I plan what I want to purchase. Knowing clearly what the force is going 'look like' both stops me from going overboard on buying too many minis at once and helps keep me motivated to finish it.

Once I get my current platoons done I will think about company level stuff, 2nd platoons, or new forces as the mood takes me. But with 1 platoon I at least have enough 'stuff' to use the force on it's own and have a satisfying game.

-Will

Eli – I did/am doing my 15mm similar to how you are; started with some modern and then branched to sci-fi and zombies.

This is how Ive done things in 28mm, but now instead of a couple of minis I have a couple "squads". I am more of a painter than a gamer which is probably why I buy/paint things based off of how cool I think the miniatures is rather than how useful for gaming.

Sorry not much help…

Redroom,

It's fine. I understand completely.

I also have a tendancy to go with a TO&E to begin with but I often find that I find myself second guessing my groupings and such. Sometimes, I base unit size on an economical purchasing plan – if a vehicle comes 3 to a pack then a unit size will be 3.

This is what I did with the UNA TacArms (At-43) that I am using for combat walkers in 15mm. They come three to a box so to keep from ending up with odds and ends, I built units of three for them.

Current I am building a few forces -

Manchurian Economic Combine (MEC)-using modern Israelis from Peter Pig for infantry. These are getting the TacArms as combat walkers and I am planning some sort of wheeled vehicles for them.

South Asian Union (SAU)-using converted 'Nam era US troops as well as some wheeled and tracked scout cars and light tanks converted to GEV.

Manheim Free Company – a mercenary unit using WW2 German LMGs and Panzerfaust troopers.

-Eli

Well – not exactly Sci Fi – but when I started a couple of my armies, it was just with units that I liked to paint – them I sort of filled in around them – now I mostly try to build to an Order of Battle – but it does lack that spontaneous feel

I still have a medieval/fantasy army that is built from bits and pieces – when I add a unit, it is mostly because I thought they would look good or because I wanted to paint them

Frederick,

Painting what you like is great, but it does feel less like an army if it's made up of a hodgepodge of assorted troops and units. Unless, of course, your army is a coalition.

To get around the "painting project of the day" problem, I build different forces with different feels.

-Eli

My 15mm Projects

These are the 15mm figures I've acquired in the last year or so, or I'm in the process of ordering . . . (( can't believe I'm planning on buying more)

POST APOCALYPTIC (early 21st century)

Bio-suits (these two sets mix in beautifully)
rebelminis.com/bizohu.html
link
Survivalists (about to place an order of these)
link
rebelminis.com/15moin.html
rebelminis.com/15cico.html
TMP link
TMP link
Ragers
TMP link
Terrain
TMP link
TMP link
TMP link
TMP link
TMP link
TMP link

MARS: 2100 AD (Mars Separatists)

Mars Colony Rebels
link
Earth Troops And Loyalists
rebelminis.com/eafoma.html
Terrain
TMP link
TMP link
TMP link

OFF-WORLD COLONIES

When EVA suits are needed:
GZG and RAFM, armed and unarmed
TMP link

Terraformed Colonies (very Wild West, as in Firefly):
GZG – Civilians, Free Trader Crew, Ravagers, Techs & Crew, Colonial Security
Slintered Light – Spacers
TMP link
Khurasan Space Demons
TMP link
GZG NAC Troops
link
Terrain
link

LOST WORLD GAMING

Victorians
TMP link
TMP link
"Morlocks"
TMP link
Island Savages
TMP link

UNSURE OF THESE . . .

Rebel Minis Scourge: Must buy them. Might use them as the last of the Martians – as allies to the Mars Colony Separatists.
link
TMP link

GZG Alien Mercenaries: Got them and have put them away for now. Might make them a little more ape-like, and I might get the Orcs from The Scene and do the same to them. If it works out, they will raid the Off-World Colonies.
TMP link

Old Crow Infantry: These are slightly smaller than Rebel Minis which, in turn, are smaller than GZG. So, I will either use them as Post Apocalyptic military or as elite Earth Force troops for Mars: 2100 AD
TMP link

15mm Spugs: Might be the reason behind the Post Apocalypse. Still trying to figure out what to do with them.
TMP link
TMP link

Any suggestions? I'm trying to keep everything down to 4 basic genres (PA, Mars Separatists, Off-World Colonies and "Lost World" Victorians).

CC

CC,

GZG Mercs could work well as PA mutants or alien Mercs for your sci-fi settings. 15mm SPugs could fit in in the same way. Their small numbers (if you indeed do not have many) would keep them as accents but not a full force of their own.

Old Crow Infantry could be wrangled into a Merc force as well.

Scourge would work well as leftover AIs for the PA setting. I remember Gamma World having a lot of those.

-Eli

I'm working intermittently on a Space Demon hive. For forces I will have 3 sets of 'assault warriors', one set each of hammerheads and infiltrators, and a king and queen.

Hrothgar,

Sounds like a nasty project. Have any hive terrain in the works?

-Eli

I usually purchase in platoons (3 – 4 squads) too, if possible, but have a random squad or two, here and there as well (usually at least two if finances permit).

For really nice stuff, I am planning on companies, e.g. three platoons of figures or vehicles to a unit.

Ideally, I will be able to do at least platoon on platoon actions, but a platoon attacking a reinforced squad in a heavily defended position should work as well.

3 – 4 vehicles per platoon, in most cases, at least thus far.

I like many of the GZG nationality figures (not that I will use them as their intended troops), as well as some from other manufacturers as well.

Still trying to sort out rules too, where to fight, thinking about camo. schemes, etc.

At least some are slated for battles on the Moon, then possibly Mars, or other planets/moons, like Europa.

One of the biggest problems I have is picking vehicles to go along with a force. I like for my forces to have a "look" much like you can look at vehicles now days and say, "Ah..that's a Russian APC" or, "Ohhhh..I bet that's American," and so on and so on.

This can be tricky. For example, with my MEC I decided on the At-4# UNA TacArms to be their combat walkers, but for their vehicles, I thought of going with a wheeled vehicle base. But now, which wheeled vehicles to use?

Also, for my Manheim Frei Kompanie mercenary force, I wanted to tap into an asthetic like that found in the SF3D/Mak models. To get the right feel I am going with WW2 Germans armed with LMGs for the basic soldiers who are carrying a powerful gauss gun. I like walkers (if you can't guess) so I decided on the At-43 Red Blok TacArms for those. I am not sure what manner of vehicles to go with, though I am leaning toward GEV.

-Eli

I started off by buying units in groups of 21 or 24. That matches Rebel and Gzg's packaging. It also gives me squads of 6, 7 or 8. All functional. Especially, if I add extra command or heavy weapons to the base squads. My vehixles also run 3-4 per platoon. I can later expand pretty easily.

Ah, the joys of 15mm scifi! :-D

Thanks,

john

I did the hodge podge thing too with my wheeled army. Didn't mean to but it just worked out that way. Got some troops and painted them in deseret colors,then got a few wheeled types from Brigade Models and did them in a desert paint job too. And that is how that army got started. They now have vehicles from Brigade, Old Crow,Combat Wombat and GZG. Each of the 15mm armies I am doing I centered around the vehicles. 1 wheeled, 2 hover types, a grav type and a tracked type. Then I looked for troops that I thought would fit the look of the vehicles. I finally got the one hover army all done. So know I am going to finish the wheeled guys next. Well….that's the plan anyway.

'Fraid I just buy packs of whatever is shiney and looks fun to paint. Usually paint up a 10 man/thing/critter/bot squad with supports. Prolly go back and flesh 'em out if ah ever decide on rules ? <chuckle>

Does anybody ever hit that point where they look at their troops and vehicles and come to the conclusion that they don't mix? I did this once where my vehicles seemed way more hi-tech than my troops.

-Eli

I sorta answered this in the other related thread. However, vehicles fall into the same 3 primary colors category. Green, brown and gray cover the majority of my military vehicles.

Thanks,

John.

John's answer here,

TMP link

Thanks John,

-Eli

" However, for those who have built their forces from bits here and there, I would ask, how did you go about it?"

Your army could be ragtag forces of the fabled Tanteboru who lead a slave and mercenary uprising that eventually overthrew the rule of the Dreaded Machine Hags of the Iron moon and ended the 2nd Age of Steel.

He'd could be sort of a Spartacus, except he wins his rebellion with the help of his jet pack, his k-type maser rifle, and 5000 assorted followers including the last remnants of the Sky Hornet tribe.

Just make a pretty story for why all these guys are together and what it is they do.

He'd could be…failing teh engrish? Huurr.

LOL,

I got the meaning there Pal.

I have considered doing that with ideas that never grow but using them as small Merc forces?

-Eli

I used to worry about uniformity of vehicles in my 15mm forces, but not any more. Take a look at the news. Brits are currently using Vikings, Warriors, Mastiffs, Land Rovers, Jackals and FV432s (Bulldogs?) in the Middle East, often together. And that's just personnel carriers. As long as they have a fairly uniform colour scheme then variety is good and, dare I say, realistic.
I like my infantry to be the same, though, unless representing units with very different battlefield roles. For example, for my NAC company the regular rifle platoons are Peter Pig Israelis but my attached recon platoon is Rebel Minis Sahadeen.

Emu: You are certainly right about playing like an army, which is why my current "free style" army is medieval – looks like a quilt and plays like one, but they are great to paint

I also have a tendancy to go with a TO&E to begin with but I often find that I find myself second guessing my groupings and such. Sometimes, I base unit size on an economical purchasing plan – if a vehicle comes 3 to a pack then a unit size will be 3.

I also do the 'what do a I get in a pack' planning when working on TO&E. My Earth Force Marine Platoons are based on what comes in a single Infantry and Heavy Weapon pack, and my Spugs use 6-man squads since that's how they are sold!

When it comes to second guessing unit organization, my simple advice is accept that the force might end up with a flawed doctrine. This is fine, it has happened to real armies! If they end up being totally unplayable then I would think about changing them radically, but otherwise they will be forced to shoulder on with the flawed tactics their general staff (ie, me) cooked up!

-Will

Hi All,
I can see what you are faced with here, a number of units that are or could be mismatched. I some of the games I have played there is some times a group of units formed from many factions. Case in point, take Warzone's brother hood's Doom troopers. The Doom troopers are the best of the best from all of the factions.

I for one like this concept, as the best troopers are in most cases the best minis. So based on the games you are playing you could simply create a fraction of this type. Then making a back story should be simple as well.

Noel

Well this has been interesting.

It seems there are two main schools of thought here.

1) Plan your force and build it.

and

2) Buy and paint what you like and worry about force structure later.

-Eli

Wminsing,

This is something I not only accept, but hope for. I like the idea of having to work within a doctrine. Of course this brings up another possible stumble in developing a force – the Swiss Army Army.

The Swiss Army Army (SAA)is the army that has been built with something for everything. It has no flaws and uses only the most powerful and absolutely best formulated weapons and force compositions. The SAA is often the army of choice for players who are either hypercompetetive, insecure, or min-maxers.

The SAA is also incredibly bland and no fun to play against and ultimately self-defeating as the commander of such an army can almost never get all his tricks onto the board at once.

-Eli

Eli: "2) Buy and paint what you like and worry about force structure later."

When it comes to 15mm skirmishing figures, I believe that's how I have been doing it.

The lure is overwhelming.

CC

This works for skirmish level just fine because you only need a hand-full of figs for any particular faction.

-Eli

I wouldn't worry about it too much, but a plan for what you want is a good idea.

If you don't have everything you want/need, you can just say that the scenario is for a force that has been heavily attacked, and suffered substantial losses, and what's left on the table are units of the rearguard, or survivors of the assault.

As an example, think the WWII Falaise Pocket, where many of the units have been decimated by attacks from all sides – probably pretty likely in a highly lethal, future war scenario, and the survivors are just trying to make it across the gametable to a safer, or more defensible position.

That will permit you to game with ad hoc units, and maybe even add in a mobile artillery, or air defense unit, or two, just for fun. Otherwise, I think most artillery would be located far behind the front lines, in order to protect them, and to permit them to use their long ranged weapons more effectively, e.g. while not under threat of direct ground assault by enemy armor, and infantry.

If you don't have everything you want/need, you can just say that the scenario is for a force that has been heavily attacked, and suffered substantial losses, and what's left on the table are units of the rearguard, or survivors of the assault.

This is another great idea as well- very few units would maintain their paper strength very long, so you can have understrength squads, or merged squads, or a lot of other ideas to fit your exact collection.

I myself plan to create 'random attrition' tables for all my units, so with a couple of rolls I can go from a fresh-full strength unit to a battle-worn one. Both Stargrunt and Fast and Dirty 4.0 support this approach, and I'm sure there are other games that do the same.

-Wills

I have always been intrigued by the political charts used in the Ak-47 Republic game. I wonder if something along those lines might be adapted as well.

-Eli

The Swiss Army Army (SAA)is the army that has been built with something for everything. It has no flaws and uses only the most powerful and absolutely best formulated weapons and force compositions. The SAA is often the army of choice for players who are either hypercompetetive, insecure, or min-maxers.

Forgot to comment on this earlier, but the SAA also bothers me as well, even though I sometimes fall into that trap as I'm setting up a force. To avoid it I try to pick two things the force does well, and one thing the force lacks. For example, if a force has excellent personal armor and is well equipped for close assaults, then it will lack good platoon-level anti-armor assets. That sort of thing.

-Will

Will,

I like the way you think. I have always loved playing with the flaws of an army, not the advantages so much. In my 40K days, I was a a tried and true Imperial Guard player who slogged it out with a mostly infantry army.

I also try to think of the background and even create funny little stories in my head for why a nation doesn't have the latest greatest. If I want to introduce a new nifty, then often it will be a new and rare unit or a Battalian level asset or something.

As an example, my Manchurian Economic Combine (MEC) forces use wheeled vehicles and unarmored troops carrying advanced assault rifles. Why do they do this? Because being a confederation of nations made up of most of mainland East Asia they have LOTS of people and a HUGE army. To get this army from place to place and not bankrupt themselves, they rely on versatile, reliable, simple to build and maintain wheeled vehicles.

This also allows the MEC to field some hi-tech units and still stay in their military budget, so I can justify the Combat Walkers I love so much. The CW are, however, not so much a battfield unit but an assault unit used in tight terrain, urban warfare and any other situation where a linear vehicle might find its mobility hampered.

-Eli