"What Should Post-Apocalyptic Figures Look Like?" Topic

I don't know about you guys, but I don't think that spikey shoulder pads, black leather jackets and mohawk hair will be the norm (a la Mad Max/Road Warriors) . . .

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Really guys, what would post apocalyptic people look like 50 years from now, if the big one (nuke, asteroid, or whatever) were to happen tomorrow or within the next 25 years?

As much as I hated the Resident Evil films, this looks about right to me:

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I just see people making the most of what they already have, and looking for food and water, not spending time trying to look like "Goths".

What do you guys think?

CC
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Futurama, Big-O, and Appleseed are post-apocalyptic too, so high tech is probably the way to go. :)

Seriously, I doubt it's going to be small groups of people wandering around in caravan until the gas runs out. They're going to start some kind of civilization over again, so anything really.

Futurama is a thousand years from now, not 50.

CC

And they've had apocalypses fairly regularly if you've seen some of the later episodes. :)

Are people still wearing mohawks somewhere? I thought it was out now except that they keep popping up on minis despite the fact.

I see post apocalyptic types having long dirty hair or shaven heads to keep the lice away. Wearing the toughest clothes and bits of armoring they can find. Big skull smashing boots. Scars, crummy tattoos…

Rogzombie,

I think you're on the right track. Figures like that should be the norm.

CC

Like this?
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Well, somebody would've posted it anyway…

More seriously, I'd look at pictures of real world refugees if I wanted to go "realistic" on it.

(hurling)

Tnjrp, you are a very, VERY evil man!

CC

Well:

It deepens on the type of Apocalypse somewhat.
But lets say it happens tomorrow and we what figures for people 50 year after.

The climate and part of the world would also have a big effect. Very few tech items are likely to survive. If there is an EMP from a nuke, no radios, cars, or electronics of any kind. In 50 years most cloth and shoes and the like will have warn out. All the ammo is used up. Since few people in the "West" know anything about subsistence, I see naked people with sharp sticks and sharpened butter knives. Most bare foot, but perhaps flip-flops make of tire tread. If most of the shelters are gone, and it is sunny, you will need a hat of some kind or your brain will cook. Perhaps trash can lids tied on or woven grass flop hats. Oh ya, and forget about your leather-boys. Without great care, cows die, and those that live past the event will be killed for food before most of the people starve (year 1). Untreated hide in the sun and weather does not last long. Naked people!

In more "primitive" parts of the world, things might not change that much. If you know how to scratch out a living, making your own clothes and footwear, growing your own food on hard scrabble farms, then you will be on top of the world.

And would most likely look like this:
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So I don't think we will see Big skull smashing boots, or crummy tattoos. Pricking yourself thousands of time with an unsterilized sliver of cactus needle is not really a good survival strategy. Access to water will be critical so it is a good thing we have made so many plastic bottles. We might want to carry a half dozen with you. Combat will not be too common by 50 years after. In year 1 and 2 people we be killing each other to get resources, but by year 50, all that will be used up, so fights will be over water and food sources. But this will be more bluff combat then anything else. Too much of your time and energy will be use to survive to waste it fighting. Fighting is a luxury too expensive to afford in such a world.

DyeHard

Ruled by the Nordics as they are heavily industrialised and have a bunker space for every person in the population?

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It seems that in Post-A movies anybody skilled in tailoring has died and that cloth has been reduced to postage stamp sized bits.

They would be raggedy, man.

Thoughts from inside my brain-jelly:

1: Beards.
How come that no matter how desperate movie P-A survivors get for water, gas, ammo etc, they're never short of shaving gear? AND they can always spare the water for it? I reckon it'd be the biggest chin-muff resurgence since the ACW.

2: Out-of-context clothing.
Everybody seems to have 'themed' clothing… usually either Biker, Goth, Paramilitary, or Bush/explorer. I don't think you could be that choosy in an actual survival situation… I reckon it'd be a lot more mixed & bizarre.
You find a primrose-yellow woman's cardigan… you're gonna WEAR a woman's primrose-yellow cardigan. And a cape made of polythene sheeting… and skate shorts… and a dogskin hat.

I think that short term, the survivors would retain vestiges of normality clothing wise. I like the copplestone minis in this context.

Long term it is potato sack undies and sticks. As next to none of us know anything about metaurgy, metal artefacts would be highly prised.

In fact anyone who can do anything practical will be in short supply (deffo in England, not sure being a whizz with excell or having a good telephone manner will be much use post apocalypse). Flint knappers will live like kings (well relatively anyway). Anyone who can filter water, well they would be very popular indeed.

Also being small and weedy will be the norm for new generations due to malnutrition, etc.

In short, imho in the long term the countryside alliance will kick the stupid city dwellers butts from here to kingdom come, post apocalypse.

Well I think that most of the posters seem to overlook the power of group identity!

Once you have made your home spun or cuered your leather then cutting it to the patten you want is no big deal

You can make cloth from nettles, they grow fine in the UK so no need for labour hungry cotton.

Social display has been a big part of life since the stone age.

Remember that modern man has a big start in his knowledge of technology. We know about watermills and windmills which were the main power scource for industry until the 1800

Every school kid knows about steam power and I don't think we will loose the ability to make alcohol, a potential fuel for internal combustion

Even 50 years after there will be lots of metal and look what 3rd world folks make out of old can

You can bet that military staff and stores will survive in the deep bunkers and that even after a apocalypse their mentality will not have changed

Perhaps the South American states will become the world power!

The results of various disasters produce different problems
But – how many times has there been a near miss with a asteroid and the news tells you the NEXT day!

The Black Tower 24 Jun 2009 3:41 a.m. PST:

Perhaps the South American states will become the world power!

The classic Valerian album La Cite des Eaux Mouvantes/Terre en Flammes (not sure if it's been published in English) has the civilization rebuild around scientists etc. converging in Brazil. While it doesn't show Christin and Mézières in top form, it's good for a retro style vision into the whole "post-apocalypse styles" issue, incidentally.

This is probably accurate:

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I agree, ComradeCommissar! Thanks.

The "homeless look", but with salvaged and/or improvised weapons.

I think Copplestone got it just about right when he sculpted these:

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They are some of the very, very few "realistic" PA figures I've seen in 28mm and seen even less in 15mm.

CC

Are there homeless guys in your town? Study them, because that's the way most people would look, I think. Scrawny, dirty, unshaven, teeth falling out, festering sores and untreated medical conditions, wearing layer upon layer of any old rag, even on the hottest day, because you never know when you're going to need the extra covering. Possibly a little nutty, having just witnessed the demise of Life As We Know It. Good times, man.

MeroMero: "wearing layer upon layer of any old rag, even on the hottest day, because you never know when you're going to need the extra covering."

That's exactly right!

CC

One more thing . . .

Based on what has been discussed here, there would be lots and lots of horses:

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Lots and lots of horses! There would be very, very little time to bother making fuel, if horses will do the trick.

So there should be figures just like those Copplestone sculpts, but on horses!

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Makes me think that The Postman (1997) film actually got a lot of it right:

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CC

So there should be figures just like those Copplestone sculpts, but on horses!

At some point, when I've recovered from painting 10 for WFB, I was going to do a few of the new placcy chaos marauders with just that sort of image in mind.

It seems like 15mm is catching up!

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CC

"So there should be figures just like those Copplestone sculpts, but on horses!"

TAG has at least one that might work, in their Afghan line. There's a guy with modern fatigues plus cap and he's carrying an AK-47.

Also, you might be able to do something with Copplestone's BoB range:

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Check out the mounted Chinese bandits, especially, but Tibetans and Russians would also work if you did head and weapon swaps.

I always thought these heads could work for post-A characters, in keeping with that ragged, homeless guy look:

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MeroMero,

Those WestWind heads are perfect!!! Thank you so much.

CC

MeroMero, I may have to look for something similar in 15mm:

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By the way, though I absolutely cannot stand Denzel Washington, I'll have to force myself to watch this, when it comes out:

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CC

I think the long term effects and conditions would be based on the actual type of event. Different scenarios would create different environments and resources. It would also depend on how many people survived. If skilled people existed to keep technology alive.

The human race started from scratch and built sophisticated civilizations. If the resources were there people could thrive again. Even if the world was barren, man would find a way if he had a food source.

Actually, EMP effects may or may not fry all computers (depends on how far away the EMP is and number of them). Even if they do, electric motors will still work, and batteries are going to be fine. You know those old, all-mechanical diesel engined VWs? they'll work just fine. So will the old caterpillar diesels. Unless you get an apocalypse that changes the ideal gas laws (like Dies the Fire), there's not going to be a lack of transportation.

The new cars are going to be toast (poor solid-state electronics don't like EMP much), but the russians are barely going to notice with all the vacuum tube stuff they have.

You'd really be amazed with the hobbies some people have that you don't know about, like metal-working, etc.

Who'd knap flint when there's all sorts of steel sitting on the highways, just waiting to be re-used? Leaf springs make very good sharp pointy things, if you can figure out how to anneal, forge, and then re-temper them.

To be more clear, I was talking 50 years beyond the event. True that isolated systems on batteries may be OK, anything plugged in will fry. (Assuming it is not just one nuke etc.).

At 50 years + no more gas (turns to lacquer) or diesel (will vaporize to loose lighter component and become tar)and very few batteries last that long. And do not forget we have years 1-49 in between. In year one we have tones of armed people who can not buy fuel or food. They are going to fight it out over the remaining supplies. This will be very wasteful and destroy much that survived the original event. As the food system will breakdown, you will have too many hungry people. They will eat all the dogs, cats, cows and horses they can get a knife into. If you setup a wind mill or waterwheel, people notice and mob you to get the things you may have gained by that and destroy it in the process. At some point in year 1 or 2 even a camp fire will draw people in to take what you have.

Now lets consider the loss of knowledge. Safe to say life expectancy will drop. Swaziland today is just 32 years, that may be optimistic. If you are 20 at the event you have 12 years to pass the info on. Now you are battling for your life most of that time. Are you going to take much time to tell the kids about steam engines? (which you may know exist, but do you really know how it works) or about fermentation and distillation? (which again you know exists, but that is about it). Which tree bark you can eat without getting the runs is what you will be telling them. And don't eat those purple berries, that's nightshade. So by year 12 the 2nd generation is online. They know some cool stories, but have never read a book. At year 32 most everyone who witnessed the event are gone. By year 50 we are on gen 2 and 3. Grand pa told pa who told me there was this bomb thing. It was a great story, but thank goodness pa told me how to dig a hole to let it fill with water. Basic survival skill knowledge is what will be needed. People spending much time thinking about how to get a PC to run will not make it. You might find the rare person that knows how to make black power and make a clay ball they can shoot from a relic. But even making a working bow and arrows is not simple. Do you know how to make a bow string from scratch? Spears are the tools/weapons of the times. There will be lots of metal, plastic and glass laying around. If we look at garbage pickers around the world today we may get some idea how it might be used. I know this is not a very romantic view of a post apocalypse, but reality is usually not too romantic.

DyeHard

Lion I The Stars has it right.

Dyehard,you seem to be thinking of a wide spread nuclear strike but if the nukes do a good job then in 3 year there will be few left alive in much of the Northern hemisphere.

But some parts of the world like South America may only suffer some wind born fall out

There will still be technology and ethanol powered cars and libraries that preserve the knowledge for future generations.

It does depend on the nature and extent of the Apocalypse.

I guess if governments and corporate sized organizations survive, then I would not call it the Apocalypse, just a very big set back.

If you think of something so the largest grouping would be a family, that what I am talking about. Basically true self reliance, no trusting anyone else to bring you food or water, build you shelter, much less fuel or electricity.

If you want to speculate about a big set back, like 90% of the people dieing off form a contagion, that I would not label as Apocalypse.

DyeHard

Getting back to the original question -----

I understand that everyone in the near future will, bizarrely, dress in the styles you might have seen at The Vortex club in 1977. Or in S&M gear. With really big guns and ammo pouches everywhere.

I don't know why this is, but everytime the news looks bad I consider running to the barber for a mohawk cut.

There is some interesting stuff in the social sciences literature (see – I do have a life beyond TMP) that suggests that population size is a key determinant of sustainable civilization – get too small, and not enough people are aroudn to teach skills to the next generation, etc – so, the amount of "die-off" will be important – as well as who gets killed off – if it is useless sorts like bankers and CEOs (no disrespect to any of them in the group), much better than if the farmers and mechanics get killed off

I think the "rag tag" appearance will, as noted, predominate – after all, it takes a fair bit of work to make leather boots with metal studs

And I totally agree about the "mohawk" thing – I always wondered how, in a world with civil order shattered and people fighting for scraps, how there was this endless supply of hair gel?

Post Apocalapyse I would imagine most figures would look, well, melted.

Sorry but someone had to say it.

Robert

LOL!!!

CC

Depends on what your apocalypse consists of and how realistic you want to be.

As far as figures go, I think you could away with anything that looked military or civilian. Fatigues would likely be popular as having lots of pockets keeps your few worldly possessions close at hand. Bed rolls, satchels, heavy coats to protect against the elements.

Horses, mules, dogs would all likely be popular. The first two because they are useful pack anaimals and the last because they make us feel better and give us a feeling of security.

I do think you would have some freaks out there. These would be lawless violent people unhinged by their desperate world and the lack of any real authority to keep them in check. Outlandish appearances would be used to mark kinship and group identity as well as to inspire fear in those who they preyed on.

I have a feeling that vehicles would likely be a non-factor for the most part. Too few people can maintain modern vehicles and the supplies needed to keep them going would dry up quick. Wagons and carts would likely replace cars and trucks in just a few years in most places.

Just my take on it,

-Eli

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28mmMan:

Great photo:

This looks pretty good for Year 1 to 12 after the Apocalypse.

After that, your sweat soaked clothes will decompose to threads. Living in old cars, as in "Soylent Green", is a good call. Hats with wider brims would be very desirable. I see a run on Mexican restaurants to get the sombreros. Perhaps adding more fabric to caps to get extra shade. The eye-ware is also a good call. Perhaps made from tinted car glass or tinted windows. Maybe even just smoked glass or plastic. Hold it over a smokey fire and you got a good set of shades. Also, something to cover the mouth and nose. Not too good for movies, but in real life a must. Without humans to suppress them, wild fires will be common and dust could be very hazardous if any Rad event is part of the Apocalypse.

But again this rag picker look will only be until the carcass of the old world is well picked over. This is not an end point but a transition phase.

DyeHard

What do I want?

Remember this is based to my needs, YMMV.

I'd want figures that were a mix and match…different articles of clothing from every possible source. Mix of webgear and other equipment. Something like what the kids in Red Dawn began to look like with a mix of civilian and Soviet Gear, now, I know RH Models does some stuff along these lines, but I'd like to see more mismatches…with, for example..a female figure with a FN-FAL, Soviet KMLK pants, a unbuttoned BDU tunic open to a OD T-Shirt, a civilian backpack and a black beret looted off of some body, and civilian hiking boots …Ragged looking, with maybe a torn or patched knee in the pants? Now, who wouldn't want that figure?

DyeHard,

I think people will be able to continue to clean their clothes, so I am not sure that the sweat-soaking will be the end of them. If anything, the lack of readily available replacements and repair materials will do in clothes.

-Eli

"Soylent Green"

Boy that brings back a lot of visions of misery:

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Entire movie here:

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CC

Eli

"the lack of readily available replacements and repair materials will do in clothes"

That is all I have been saying. At 50 yeas past the last mass produced clothes, do not expect to see to much of it around. By the way, washing on the stream side with rocks (Assuming there still are streams)will do in you clothes pretty fast as well. Perhaps better to not wash. Keep that water for drinking.

DyeHard

Heh, I know that, but you can wring-wash your clothes to a good degree without use of soap. Not a total solution, but a great way to extend the life3 of clothes. Of course there really is no real perfect solution.

The only saving grace is that in some places there are bound to be more clothes than people.

I think we all agree that the general appearance should be ragged and pieced together.

-Eli

The Road:

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CC

Well, its great to see the western/us focus in all of this.

First off, not kidding about those nordics and their preparations for the apocalpyse. As well as being oil producers they are the most industrialised area of the planet.

Switzerland from wikipedia is an example.
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Switzerland built an extensive network of fallout shelters (mainly through extra hardening of government buildings such as schools) of a scale to protect and feed the entire population for two years after a nuclear attack. This nation has the highest ratio of shelter space to national population of any country. All these shelters are capable of withstanding nuclear fallout and biological or chemical (NBC) attacks but the blast-proof requirement varies depending on the size of the building. The largest buildings usually have dedicated shelters tunneled into solid rock. Similar projects have been undertaken in Finland, which requires all buildings with area over 600 m² to have an NBC shelter, and Norway, which requires all buildings with an area over 1000 m² to have a shelter.[4]

Interest in fallout shelters has largely dropped, as the perceived threat of global nuclear war reduced after the end of the Cold War. In Switzerland, most residential shelters are no longer stocked with the food and water required for prolonged habitation and a large number have been converted by the owners to other uses (e.g. wine cellars, ski rooms, gyms). However, a renewed interest has been seen since 2001. These shelters also provide a haven from natural disasters such as tornadoes and hurricanes, although Switzerland is rarely subject to such natural phenomena.
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Even if they have their mountain hideaways oblitorated what about he rest of the world?

In a general exchange of nukes America would get it from China and Russia, with those countries also suffering heavily, India and Pakistan would be goners. But why bother hitting Africa? Or Even South America? Lots of central Asia would barely notice, beyond losing the cheap chinese imports! A Nuclear winter would be harsh, but still survivable.

I think you have to define what sort of apocalypse people are surviving to say what they will be looking like.

No doubt in some scenarios you will simple see the relative disparities of the first world and third world moving to new areas of the globe.

Regardless its a surprisingly Muslem future as in most scenarios most of the the areas likely to survive are populated with them.

Oh this is fun

It is possible to construct an electrometer-type radiation meter called the Kearny Fallout Meter from plans with just a coffee can or pail, gypsum board, monofilament fishing line, and aluminum foil. Plans are in the reference "Nuclear War Survival Skills" by Cresson Kearny.
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Come the Apocalipse, I will be too busy to build one of those KF meters:

That is why I have one of these with me, on my desk:

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No parts to break, and powered buy a gentle swirling action.

I keep the GM survey, PAM and Scintillation meters at home.

But back on the subject. 50 years after the bomb, radiation will not be the biggest problem. It will be the equivalent of evil spirits by then. It is good to know that the Swiss can hide for two years before they start to kill each other over the remaining supplies. But by year 50, I do not think those two years are going to add up to much.

I have been assuming a large disruption in the world for this conversation. Something worthy of being called an Apocalypse. So lets assume the climate is disrupted. You know un-ending nuclear winter or run-a-way greenhouse effect, a substantial and long term change in things. So you crawl out from the rubble and find none of the crops that people use to farm about you will grow anymore. Or the glaciers are building up or your low areas are flooding, real disruption. If it stops raining in Brazil, it will not matter is they can turn sugarcane into fuel. If the snow is 3 meters thick in Norway and will never melt, a seed bank and a big fuel tank will only get you so far. After 50 years with 150 meters of snow, you had better look for a better way. That is what I am calling post-Apocalypse.
Something that really challenges you ability to survive.

DyeHard

Exactly. I'm asking about those who survive the initial turmoils long enough to create a new generation.

I wouldn't call it civilization, but those groups would have to live, dress and arm themselves according to the new environment and the resources available to them.

CC

You know, whatever you think of the movie or the actors, "The Postman" did a pretty good job of interpreting survivors.

-Eli