"6mm to 12mm concerns" Topic

Hello

So, I started collecting some 6mm WW2 Germans and Americans to play some O'Group. I haven't spent a ton of money on the scale, but enough to setup a 6x4 table.

The terrain looked great and I really liked the look of the layout.

Next I put the 6mm infantry on the table, turned around and looked at it again. I could barely see the stand let alone the little dudes :)

Even the armor wasn't very distinguishable from 4' away.

The only thing that looked good, was all that space for maneuvering. I'm fearful that on a 6x4 table or even slight larger that "look" of I have lots of room to maneuver will be lost on 12/10mm.

So, anyone mind sharing pictures of their table so I can see how 12/10mm looks?

Thanks

Frankly at 10/12 mm the little dudes will still be invisible from 4' away. It works for massed ranks though. The tanks do become easier to ID. That's why I go 6mm and 15mm. 15mm for when I care about the infantry more.

Not sure what you are wanting. I love 1/144 on a 6 by 4 oeven better 6 by 6 or even 6 by 8. I love it because it's empty. It at least hints at an empty battlefield. However to be fair, for me they are playing pices, basic colouring only, you are not supposed to see detail thats why they are camoflarged.

This is the best I can do:-

it was not a game but a typical battlefield with a column, present at a show. The fun was pick the best models. FDM came second after commercial injection moulded.

Looking at the table, hyper detail is pointless at wargame ranges. You have to decide the compromise between good looking battles or over detailed too big models cos' that waht you want.

I am no 6mm fan but to be fair it's not the models appearance that is the issue, for me they make the battlefield even more empty which is good, but they are too small to manipulate how I need too in our game.

Hence we opt for the 12mm compromise, size vs battlefield look.

@Extra Crispy & Ushcha

I think you just gave me a lightbulb moment.

On a dense terrain table I think 12mm infantry/tanks would be more distinguishable however, on a less dense board (let's say North Africa), 6mm would work!

Also, I think I'm going to stick to 15mm. I feel 12/10mm on 2 tables would give me a nice look, but 15mm on 3 tables would be the same visual footprint, imo.

Related to look of the battlefield, whether you want armored-focused or not matters greatly. Flames of War in 15mm looks great with infantry-dominant games and only a handful of vehicles. Once the full-blown tournament scene got going, and the emphasis on armor increased, the table began to look cartoonish with the crowding of 15mm vehicles on the board. (Same issue is true with Bolt Action and 28mm.)

IMHO, if you want to fight Kursk or big open field battles, do it in 6mm. If you want to fight Band of Brothers games, go with 15mm. Otherwise maybe go 10/12mm to have maximum flexibility,

@YogiBearMinis

I game I Ain't Been Shot Mum in 15mm on a two table setup (6x4) and it looks great, but going up to a Battalion level game (O'Group) I don't think 15mm on that table would work.

I do have some 6mm stuff and I think for a North Africa setting it would work as there won't be too much terrain.

I'm entertaining the 12mm scale, but I feel that scale on 2 tables would look the same (spatially) as 15mm on 3 tables.

Also, I LOVE 15mm. Not too big, not too small.

Trying to avoid having multiple scales and I think 15mm stuff is more readably available and costs the same as 12mm

Depends a bit on what type of gaming you like – I use 6mm for Napoleonics but then again my infantry units have 54 figs each and so it is pretty easy to see that they are there! For WWII grand tactical 6mm is good but I use 20mm as I do company-battalion level gaming; started a long time ago and if I was re-starting 12mm would be very tempting!

You could always sit down to play. You can see much better then. Yes, it restricts table size, but I'd much rather that than putting my back out again heaving lead Panthers around the middle of a large table.

My eyesight is so poor I can't even make out what 20mm figures are from 4 feet away. The joys of old age!

@ Martin

My table is setup where there is no hunching over and I don't do lead, plastics all the way! :)

But I get the eyesight thing. I'm in my mid 50's and 6mm is just a no go on a dense terrain board for these eyes.

Reminds me of a micro armor game I hosted in Tucson. I had placed a bazooka team in a clump of woods in ambush. As the German player passed thru where I had placed my team, I couldn't find the darned thing!!!! Found it while picking up after the game----right where I left it!

True Fog of War!

You could start by revisiting the thread from the last time you posted this question. That had a lot of nice photos in it.

If you want to see 6mm stuff better

1. use more miniatures on each stand or more stands in a unit, to achieve greater mass effect;
   
2. play on smaller tables;
   
3. play with less terrain (or plainer, more abstract terrain).

I personally constructed toward option 1, because the other options are non-starters for me.

To get full 1/144 eye candy, do a TMP message board search for author FlyXWire, and start clicking. In the 2020-2023 date range, there are a lot of posts of his games and miniatures that helped turn my head. Just a few samples:
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TacticalPainter01 has post a few unconscionably rare photos of 10mm/12mm stuff. He's mostly a 20mm WWII gamer, but when he comes down to half-scale, his stuff looks really nice:
TMP link
TMP link

UshCha already spoke up; search for his posts and look for the ones with photos of his own games. They are all 1/144 scale.

There are a few other 1/144 fiends who occasionally post pictures, which you should be able to find if you do a TMP message board search for the title "1/144", and click Search more? until you get to about 2019. (Before 2019 most 1/144 posts are about aircraft or "where do I get X", not photo AARs of games).

@Yellow Admiral

Ugh, thanks for reminding me I asked this before! I'm having analysis paralysis. I'm so wishy washy between 15mm or 12mm.

I need to just make a decision.

Regarding the look of 12mm on the battlefield. Apparently even today vehicles need to be at least 40m apart. If not then the enemy, having hit one vehicle is virtually guaranteed to hit the next one first shot. Correcting for 40m apparently is a trivial correction and is unlikely to have any significant error. To this end we cheat (as always) and give a bonus if targets are spaced closer than 40m. Too small at model scale but only a bit over 40m at ground scale.

You learn quickly to space out unless there is an overriding tactical reason to breach this distance. This stops the "Tank Park" look and improves the credibility of the game.

PS I hate bases on figures and even more so on vehicles. So we have no bases on vehicles and with the advent of our own printed figures, bases are at most 0.6 mm (3 layers thick). I have been experimenting with variable layer height. I have done some "overlay hexes" different textures to the standard hex. These are 0,9mm thick but the depression sections are only 0,3mm thick. Variable layer height means the 0,3mm sections are still 3 layers thick but print flat. Most interesting of all despite being flocked with PVA glue and the depressions with sand and PVA mixed they have not distorted at all. However thinner than 0,6mm bases may be difficult to pick up and as my infantry is 90% prone this could be an issue.