"To the 1/144 mm gamers" Topic

Thinking of going 10mm or 12mm for my world war 2 gaming. Love to see pictures of your tables to see how this scale looks on various table sizes.

Thanks

you could do worse than look here:-

link

I am puzzled by the vagueness with scales in this area surely a 2mm difference between 10mm and 12mm must be noticeable, it is a twenty percent increase after all? And which one of these is actually 1/144? I am thinking of playing Northag and PSC state that their models are 1/144 are these compatible with Minifigs for example?

Unfortunately at least for vehicles the difference between typical 10mm (IIRC Pendraken benchmarks 10mm at 1:150 or so) and 1:144th is hideously obvious. For infantry at least some makes the differences are less obvious. Though as with a lot of wargames figures differences exist between ranges of nominally the same scale.

Just like the size difference between 1/56 and 1/48 for 28mm figs, there is a noticeable difference between 10mm and 12mm.

*In My Opinion* … 10mm = 1/160 scale; 12mm = 1/144-1/150 scale.

Again… *In My Opinion* … Pendraken, Perrin and Lancer are 1/160. Pithead and Minifigs are 1/150. Arrowhead, Wargames South, Dragon, World Tank Museum are 1/144.

Victrix originally labeled their new WWII line as being 1/150 but now they're saying it's 1/144.

Here are some comparison photos:
link

CaptainCold,

Here's a series of pics of some of my 1/144th scale games from the past 12 years+, which shows a battlefield evolution in materials used, while giving you some model eye-candy to reference on these different styles of game boards (most of my scenarios are played on 4 X 6ft. tables).

First, older photos that show a game on a static grass mat, and a model railroad-style desert mat, then as I transitioned to custom vinyl game boards -

Made some cork tiles and still like the Cigar Box desert mat's look for a desert covering -

Finally, some of the recent stuff – winter on custom vinyl, fur NW Europe mat, and one for the Eastern Front (the last one I've yet to get up and running) -

My vehicles all have magnets attached underneath, and I can go back and forth with bases or w/o, depending on what I think looks best on the mat being used.

is hideously obvious

Very much so. Seems in many cases a 10mm model is more in scale with 6mm Infantry, etc., etc., …

Beautiful games there Fly !!!

Thanks Legion!!!

I always tell the guys if they show up to one of my games, that it ought to look pretty good…..but I don't guarantee it'll play worth a damn! :)))

Shogun -- very useful link.

FlyXwire -- Yes, great looking games.

Thanks everyone. I just need to see what table I'll be playing on and pick a scale.

I'm finding that most 10mm tanks are in the $3 USD-$4 range while most 1/144 scale tanks are $5 USD-$6 so in a company sized game it's not that much more.

What's making me lean more toward 1/144 is that they look much nicer than most 10mm stuff out there.

Add to that captaincold69 that you can get quite a bit of the 1/144th already painted which is a nice plus.

FlyXwire very nice indeed. I especially liked the last one. Buildings Pegasus?

Marc33594…this is true, but I do enjoy the painting process, but there are time when it would be nice NOT to have to paint :)

This question has been coming up a lot with the new PSC and Victrix releases, so here's our take on it!

We scale our vehicles to 1:150th (although some of them are 20+ years old and weren't scaled as accurately, so we're in the process of replacing any of those older models).

If we take '10mm' scale as being measured to the eye level, then the overall height of our figures is usually around 11.5mm. At the 1:150th scaling that equates to a real life height of around 5ft 9in, which seems about right for an average person.

'12mm' to the eye will give an overall height of 13.5mm-14mm, so if we're saying that these are 1:144th then that gives a real life height of 6ft 5in, which seems a bit too tall to me?

I suppose it comes down to whether the '12mm' ranges are an overall figure height or the usual 'to the eye' measurement? 12mm overall height works fine at 1:144th, but 12mm to the eye would be too big. And 12mm overall height could be used with us, Pithead, Minifigs, etc. but 12mm to the eye would be noticeably bigger.

And then you've got the fun of adding bases into the equation and how that affects things…!

For what it's worth, I believe the new Victrix models are about the same size as ours, certainly our more recent releases and revamps.

Marc, good spot on the Pegasus buildings.

Leon, I've used a fair amount of your infantry along with my 1/144th scale vehicle models (and some inside of them too, with carving often required to fit Brand A into Brand B).

One thing I've come to try and limit is mixing the wargame figure lines of 10s (or 12s) together in a particular theater – so Minifigs mostly for standing infantry and weapons crew bases for the N. Africa stuff, Pendraken and Perrin for Russians on the Eastern Front, and mixes of Pegasus rubberish soldiers for Americans and Germans too, along with metals to fill in on weapons crew needs.

Being in the US, the first hurdle I've always had to encounter is how long it takes to get an order from GB to ship and arrive here (from most of the English miniatures lines in fact). I can get Pegasus and a host of plastic and resin models and figs from China and Japan as fast, or faster than from the United Kingdom. Because of this, many of us in this 1/144th "collectors scale" have become swappers, scoungers, and mix-matching opportunists for this 10-12mm WW2 scale. Honestly, if I could go to a big game con., or order domestically loads of 10-12mm figs., like gamers in the UK can, what a pleasant experience that would be, compared to the the many years of attempting to mass particular scale collections on this side of the pond.

The short translation – I've got no brand loyalty habits reinforced from over 50 years of being in this hobby – distributors in the US have come and gone, shipments from the UK arrive – when they do, and rules – no limitations/loyalty there either.

So as a gamer, I see Victrix here presenting a 1/144th scale product line that ought to fit in well with one of my favorite collections, and it looks like their brand might be a great choice for new gamers also considering the scale, and, that's somewhat the point….1/144th is a modeling scale, so 10mm?, 12mm?….figures measured to the top of the head, or to the eyes….that's not that relevant when a gaming collector can consider buying vehicles, infantry, and support weapons for operations in NW Europe '44-45, primarily from within one vendor's scale line. (certainly a positive consideration from my point of experience with 1/144th scale 'wartgaming')

I have to agree. Wish we had gone with scales, like they do with plastic kits, instead of 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 25, 28mm and on. One man's 10mm is another man's 12mm. With very little exceptions I know one companies 1/35th scale armor will be identical size wise with another companies and can even kit bash parts. With 12mm never sure.

Dammit, FlyXWire, would you please stop making your games look so attractive? I'm already having a hard time resisting this scale. You're not helping!

- Ix

:)))

It's not me Admiral, this scale gives a great combo of looks (with recognizable infantry detail), along with the board space to wage a battalion-level game on that average 4X6ft. tabletop.

It's sort of a scale sweet spot IMO…..presenting model fidelity, terrain fidelity, and game [level] fidelity.

Having said that, we know there's tremendous game fidelity had with the Micro-scales, and upwards into 15mm/18s for combined-arms scenarios too (and on that average size table).

YA, if you can't resist, I'd buy the infantry first (enough for a couple of companies' worth w/support weapons), and after the painting and mounting if you're still all-in, go for the vehicles afterwards.

In the meantime, the troops are beginning to make their moves……. ;)

@ FlyXwire again great looking stuff ! Win or lose your stuff will look good !

@ FlyXwire, very nice….!

Was looking forward to the Victrix stuff, and the first wave stuff looks very pretty professionally painted, but not if its incompatible with 'true' 1:144! WTM, Pegasus and Millennium Toys form the bulk of my vehicle collection ATM.

I'd be interested to see how the Victrix line looks with Arrowhead.

Since I don't need more than 10-20 vehicles on the table I'm leaning more toward the eye candy mini's.

I personally have a pet hate of the 10mm 12mm or n mm. To me scale means all. A 1/144 figure should be able to fit in a 1/144 vehicle and not look too daft. In reality Minifigs figures are about 12mm bottom of foot to top of hat so match 1/144 but they are a bit circus freaky with oversize "detail" which some folk seem desperate for at the expense of scale, you pays your money and takes your choice.

Basing is another issue, I print my own crude figures and keep the base to 0.6mm to minimize the impact.

Well Guys, it's obvious I've caught you all at your weak and vulnerable moment…..so why let up now! :)))

This 1/144th stuff is pretty handy, but because it's small it can straddle the need of wanting numbers on the table, while not being too hard to get fun painting results with it.

Here's those Schwimmwagens and Marders above, but with some handy perspective attached -

Let me spam you with some North Africa stuff now -

If you base your collections, and it's almost imperative with this size of infantry and weapons, you'll have the room to make little vignettes on top of some -

Capt.Cold and ROUWetPatch mentioned compatibility in the scale between vendors, and UshCha makes a good point about figure differences, and some of this even coming from their individual stand thicknesses (btw, it looks like the new Victrix figures might have some thick bases on them too) – here's some 8th Army armor by Arrowhead alongside some Minifig Vickers teams….and if you can 'sink' your troops down into your basing texture (I use twist epoxy on the stand tops, arrange in the minis before it sets up, then flock them with sand and paint).

This is a method that can help compensate for those thick (or thin) bases, and help alleviate some of the height differences -

Now that's just showing off!

Like what you've done with the Arrowhead Bren Carrier – who/what are the crew?

Personally I'm not that keen on Minifigs infantry, having re-painted and based my Germans and Americans – I base singely except for support weapons. I'm disinclined to start again from scratch with something better. The Arrowhead Brits I have are much nicer – but the range is limited. At some point I want acquire a few Pendraken to provide support weapons and artillery crew for my WTM 6 pdrs.

hehehe

I can't remember for sure on the Bren Carrier crews, but lean Minifigs sculps fit into lots of compartments easier than some of the other makes.

I'm with you on not wanting to duplicate anything already done! Still, I'm leaning towards new Victrix German and American infantry, especially for their gun crews (when they come out).

Good LORD FlyXwire….NO MAS…NO MAS

What brand are those Maraders and Pz IV's? The more I see of your 1/144 stuff the more and more I'm being swayed to that scale.

Very nice and must appreciated with your sharing of photos and commentary.

You've given this old guy the chance to pull some of his favorite stuff from out of the toy box – thanks for the opportunity!

The Marders and Pz IV F2s are Dragon Models. A few I bought as CanDo (pre-painted, pre-assembled) collector models, the rest were built from Dragon's Panzer Korps kits. Btw, they also have a nice PzJager 38 (Marder) too.

These I can't take credit for, except for the foliage, weathering, and basing –

You can still find the unassembled Panzer Korps kits around [ebay], and sometimes really cheap (cheap compared to trying to amass your units by buying the collector models, in ones and twos when they come up for sale).

The 1/144th scale Panzer Korps model kits also include photo-etched brass parts and decal sheets, the brass pieces if you want to do super detailing for things like the engine grates. I find the plastic parts are fine, and when you have an assembly line to keep moving the super detailing fades by the wayside mostly.

Dragon Models did only German vehicles in this scale as far as I know, but their stuff is great (often just a little bit nicer than WTM models), and the Panzer Korps kits are the same models they sold as the "CanDo" collectibles, but unassembled and unpainted.

Thanks!

I know these are going to be harder to find, but I really like that scale. Might stick with Arrowhead/Minifigs/Victrix making sure not to mix tank types and nab these pre-painted ones where/when I can.

Capt., excellent plan!

Some awesome scenarios can come from specialist (targeted) collecting.

I'm always trying to encourage guys to paint for the scenario, not the collection (but write down the paint numbers for those bottles used….for when picking up the brush later)!

captaincold69, you can get those Marders here for $4.99 USD a box (2 to a box) and they have 32 boxes available. link

Thanks Machinehead!

Guys, if you're interested, you might want to move on some of this Panzer Korps stuff.

Capt.Cold – they have some of the Pz IV F2 kits available there also (general link) -

link

They also have the new 1/144 stuff from dragon. link

This about half of my collection, ran out of room on the table. :D link

Machinehead, I laughed at that one comment over on the Kampfgruppe forum – something like – what'ya going to do, invade Russia the weekend after next? :)))

We need to get you into wargaming!

Lol, yeah that was funny. By the way who are you over there if you don't mind my asking?

I never post there – too many forums to spread myself in between as it is.

(I enjoy perusing, and catching up on all the good 1/144th scale happenings there)

What scale buildings/terrain do you all use with your 1/144 scale?

FlyXwire, your models are beautifully painted and based, the best I've seen. They – and the Victrix releases- have inspired me to get back into gaming at this scale.

This question is mainly directed at FlyXwire

In your opinion what other scales/manufactures would fit with the 1/144 scale?

Minifigs?

I understand that if you do this then you do not want to mix, for example, Stug's of various brands. Stick to 1 maker, but there are gaps in 1/144 I'm sure.

Thanks

Sancho Panzer, that's great to hear, and hoping you'll love the scale as much us other enthusiasts do too.

Capt.Cold, Minifigs' metal vehicles are smaller in my experience, but they do also have a line of printed (or resin) 1/144th scale offerings.

There's very few gaps in this scale, and if you need something there's usually some resin caster, 3D printer, or small supplier where you can find that particular model of vehicle needed. It's just how obscure that a particular variant might be which might raise the price of acquisition. Example – I needed some small Dingo scout cars to perform FO duties for a N.Africa scenario a few years back, at the time the only source I could find were pre-painted Panzer Depot models, at like $12 USD apiece.

Capt., I think you've got the build plan well at hand – 1st have that plan of what theater of ops you're targeting, then the unit types you want to feature – with an idea of how much these completed units might cost you (which draws in your game rules, unit scale, or battle level you want to fight at also). Then complete your buys, per type, as much as you can from one manufacturer (then the small differences in sizing or detailing won't matter that much….between units comprising different manufacturer's vehicles, if you need to acquire outside your main vendor choices).

Here's a possible build suggestion, and you mentioned the Stug's already, but their batteries were some of the most versatile, omnipresent armor on the battlefield, and some late war Stug Brigades were organized with integral escorting infantry…..that's a combine-arms "gruppe" build that could be acquired and featured together as a unit, or as separate parts in other games.

Sort a "plug 'n play" build plan – with at least using some TOE structure to guide your buys – and thinking which units could be commonly grouped together to build force structures for future game scenarios.

Once you have an initial build list, buy what you can by type/vendor, get em painted up, and get some games on the table (to reinforce your hard work thus far)….then see what you may want to compliment your collection with next. ;)

These are some of my Dragon Panzer Korps Marders, I have around 60 or so of them.

Minifigs are smaller compared to the 1/144 stuff that is available. I bought one of their Puma armored cars and the difference from the ones that I have from Arrowhead is very noticeable. The sculpts are also not in the same class as Arrowhead. I'm really hoping that the new Victrix is true 1/144.

FlyXwire, you should show your beautifully painted stuff over at Kampfgruppe. There are not enough armored vehicle posters there, it's mostly aircraft.

Machinehead, they've already got great painters like you keeping the place popping over there!

Hey, on model building manufacturers – I've used Time Cast 10mm buildings, also their out-of-production Landmark buildings (small 15s cut down even shorter), and 10mm Battlescale resin ones for NW European and N. Africa buildings, and mostly 1/144th scale Pegasus model huts for the Eastern Front.

The ruined buildings in that winter game pictured way above, were 1/144th scale Combat Group Dynamix diorama pieces, meant really as display backdrops, but which worked good for gamin' too.

Thank you guys for all the advice. I totally forgot about buying the random pieces from Shapeways or other random 3d printing services. That's always an option!

With that Victrix line however, I'm rethinking what theater to start with. It was North Africa (Torch) but now I'm thinking Normandy :)

You can look through this page for links to building manufacturers. link

Having a lot of Minifig and Pendraken figures I would have preferred 1/150 scale.

captaincold69, I have some of this guys stuff from Shapeways. They are nice but kind of fragile and relatively expensive. link An example.

Capt.Cold, good theater choice!

For the big, regular armor action in Normandy you're then thinkin' the British sector?

(this appears to be Victrix's focus too, and the projected model list looks to be fleshing out the British types well)

American armor came into it's own, in deployable numbers, post-Breakout IMO.

That "Normandy" battle board I teased pics of above, with some close bocage terrain, that's infantry-centric indian country, where the American armor was typically in support.

(projected terrain cost/construction can be an important part of your initial collection building plans)

Uhm….no offense to my British friends, but I'll be focusing on the Yanks at first.

/ducks and runs away!

@ machinehead

I have a local guy that I know who has a resin 3d printer with a buddy of his. They test printed a couple Pz IIIJ's for me. One at 12mm (ish) and another at 15mm.

I'm sure he'd be able to print out some items here and there when needed!