|Epic 40k did die horribly, didn't it? Too bad, because it's
great fun once you get the hang of it.
I think GW out-clevered themselves with Epic. It's very slick, with a set of core rules, and then a set of modifications to reprsent different troop types. Unfortunately, I think the simplicity drained the flavor out of the game for many people. The gameplay is great, but I guess most people actually liked having little complex rules for each and every troop type.
I think GW shot itself in the foot with the rulebooks, too. I know they were trying to do us a favor by mashing all the rules into three litle books, but I think they cut too much. The game gives you very little background. And it's not just fluff that's missing. Basic stuff like "What should an Imperial detachment look like" and "What are some good tactics for my Eldar" are nowhere to be found. That's fine if you're familiar with 40k, but I imagine it made the game difficult for new people to figure out. That's odd, because introducing games to new players is one of the things GW usually does very well indeed. I also thought the rulebooks were pretty badly written. For the first time in a GW game, I had trouble figuring out - or even finding - basic rules (like morale, and "half speed"). That can't have made the game attractive either.
It's all too bad, because Epic really is a slick game. And I could actually afford to spend the time and money to collect a humongous army. I hope the upcoming Warmaster (epic Warhammer) is as clever - and I hope it doesn't crater commercially like Epic 40k.
|John Maddaus (email@example.com)|
|Basically, I have never known any other miniatures games than Games Workshop's products.
The local store only ever has GW stuff, and a few odd Ral Partha minis and
such... So this game was naturally the answer to the complex rules of Titan
I pre-ordered the boxed game and found it to be the best set of minis GW has ever put in a boxed game. Unfortunately, Epic 40k has died horribly... after they released one Chaos boxed army (notice: no separate blisters or boxed infantry), GW dropped it like a rock. It is so sad, although there are some people who would say that the miniatures are over-simplified (come on now, they are only 1cm tall...), the game is simply one of the best to play... simple, fast, and cheap (for GW anyway).
With recent price increases from GW (all to common), I figure I should start using Epic 40k minis with the regular Warhammer 40k rules :)
|James Manto (firstname.lastname@example.org)|
|I wanted to add something that I forgot to mention in my previous review:
In Epic, infantry can actually do something. When we played DSII, the infantry just rode around in their IFVs and died horrible deaths. Now in Epic they can actually engage armour, move about and take objectives etc. etc. Infantry combat in DSII was way too slow moving. But infantry in Epic are easy to use. So I'm encouraged to include a large proportion of infantry in my order of battle (something real armies do), whereas in DSII my forces were about 75%+ armour. And when you think about it, which is easier to move across interstellar space - a unit of infantry, or a unit of tanks? (I know SF gaming has nothing to do with reality, but...)
|Kenneth Peters (email@example.com)|
Epic40K in and of itself is not a bad game. But it's biggest drawback is the lack of support from GW and the dearth of available miniatures.
When Epic 2nd Edition was pulled, they also pulled the then-available miniature lines. When Epic40K was released, the only (partly) complete line of miniatures released was Imperial. This more than anything tanked the game - lack of support right off meant little incentive to invest, which meant GW saw little support for the game, which meant they kept taking away more support which meant... you get the idea.
Personally, I prefer Adeptus Titanicus and the NetEpic modifications to second edition. Epic40K has much less 'chrome' and individual difference between units - everything is very generic.
As for the comment not all the figures from SM1 made it to SM2 - that's inaccurate, they all made it (except for models that went out of production for Rogue Trader as well), just in different forms or were replaced with new models.
|James Manto (firstname.lastname@example.org)|
I switched from Dirtside II to Epic 40K and love it!!
Dirtside II was taking us hours to resolve a couple of turns, plus the min/maxing of vehicle designs and points costs was annoying. Anyway, we switched to Epic and haven't looked back.
I'm not in love with the oficial universe, but I make up my own backgrounds. The Orks make nice low-tech barbaric types, the imperial forces a very flexible and can be turned into many different styles of army. I use my old DS II miniatures for Humans, and I've included some old WW2 microarmour into my Orks. A friend uses his old Modern microarmour and some Battletech vehicles for Humans and Orks. Just keep the stats and change the name.
The game itself is very fast paced, balanced and fun. Production values are excellent, especially the buildings. Science fiction isn't my main interest, but I'm not overly fond of super-detailed rules in my main periods either. Epic is simple and fun. In DS II, everyone just went hull down and blasted away across the table, but in Epic you actually have to maneuver. I like the unit vs. unit resolutions too, as opposed to resolving each individual shot as in DS II.
|Alan E. Brain (email@example.com)|
A bit about the history of the game:
First came ADEPTUS TITANICUS
This was a game about giant, crewed humanoid robots fighting in a city. Much detail - you could customise each Titan to a great degree.
Then came SPACE MARINE (1st ed)
Which added infantry, tanks and artillery. Each 5-man infantry squad had multiple weapons, firing multiple times. Very complex, lots of chrome.
Next was SPACE MARINE (2nd ed)
This removed a lot of the complexity from the basic rules. Now, each infantry stand only rolled once to hit, and at most once to penetrate armour. A neat, simple system. Added to this were a vast (and growing) quantity of exceptional rules - so many different vehicles or weapons, with similar overall effects, used different mechanisms to get that effect. Still, a popular system.
Then came TITAN LEGIONS
Corrected a very few minor errors in Space Marine 2, but added very little (apart from some nice models).
The Current Edition is Epic 40,000
This is a complete re-write. Basic mechanics are a little more complex than Space Marine 2 (though the War Engines/Titans have been greatly simplified). There are, however, none of the reams of special exceptions that bedevilled SM2, so it plays a lot faster. Almost all the models from SM2 made it to E40k (the same couldn't be said for SM1 to SM2), and a lot of new ones from WH40k were added.
A good game, and with the Firepower supplement - the only one, so far - a great game. For GW, cheap, too. Good value. Unbelievable.
|David Hornung (firstname.lastname@example.org)|
|The game in & of itself isn't bad, but I am seriously tired of getting
ripped off by Games Workshop.
Nice figures, but as far as the game goes, use them to play Dirtside II.
If you would like to add your opinion to this webpage, use the following form or send email to the editor.
|21 October 1999||comments by Dadurman|
|5 August 1999||comments by John Maddaus|
|Mon Apr 05 01:30:24 PDT 1999||comments by James Manto|
|4 March 1999||Kenneth Peters comments|
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|27 October 1998||David Hornung's comments|
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