"13.5mm?? ACW from Warlord Games" Topic

My latest copy of Wargames Illustrated showed up with these guys strapped to the cover. They are very nice but the scale is odd. link

Please not another scale!

Just curious, but has anyone actualy measured the figures? Are they really 13.5mm, or are they European 13.5mm (i.e 15mm the top of the head)?

One thought that comes to mind is that these figures (& rules) are aimed at newcomers, & designed to have a shelf presence on hobby shop shelfs. Also making it an odd scale means the new comers are beholden to Warlord to expand their army…they can't just pick up 15mm from competing manufactuerers to flesh out their force.

As far as the former is concerned, how many traditional ACW games or figure manufacterers have shelf presence, or even bother with it? If anything, I can see this expanding interest in the period.

Damon.

There are great deals out there for some nicer figures IMO. You can get Old Gory, Blue Moon and Battle Honors. Many of the manufacturers have reasonable discounts from 20-40% off. Plus IMO, it is nice to see an ACW rank look like they are supposed to at right or left shoulder shift instead of the haphazard look. The historical companies put a lot more research in their products, so there is a big difference there. Of course that is not what Warlord is going for.

I rarely post here anymore, but…

Anton, I posted a response on your blog, before I checked here.

I do not care that this is a different scale. Complaints about such reminds me of the 25mm vs 15mm arguments, way back. We've got 3mm, 6mm, 10mm, 12mm, 15mm, 25mm, 28mm. So now there's 13.5mm.

Okay, more choices is better, imo.

As to their historical accuracy, while I would like to have seen something a little different, in the end, it does not matter. These are generic enough to be useable for both sides. From tabletop distance, it is hard to see their faults.

Kallistra's line of ACW works well with these, and I already have some of those, so good on me, I guess.

I think Warlord made some intentional concessions. Those new or just starting will not mind them so much.

For those who have missed all of the other threads:

TMP link

TMP link

TMP link

TMP link

TMP link

They are 13.5 mm foot to eye level or pretty well 15 mm foot to top of head/hat.

I don't have a 15mm figure to do a comparative measure against.

I agree

A new scale that no one else has and a basing scheme enforced by the sculpting creates major problems
- where do I get figures not covered by Warlord ? Skirmishers ?
- what scenery (particularly buildings) will I be able to get ? Warlord stuff is nice, but what if I want something different ?
- what happens if Warlord drops the range ?

The figures are nice, the pricing is great

I rather suspect that the scale comes from "Let's do 60mm bases with 10 figures in a strip" so that a regiment is 5 bases

Comparing with Victrix 12mm is interesting

There's great information in the other threads, key points I remember
- Historical accuracy not particularly good
- still end up with regiment in line occupying 300mm. So still need a large table to fight large battles

That last point I think is key and something I have been struggling with thinking about in relation to large battle Napoleonics. It looks as through the strips could be cut down, but going to be some work and a little filling to build elbows and shoulders back up

John

A new scale that no one else has and a basing scheme enforced by the sculpting creates major problems
- where do I get figures not covered by Warlord ? Skirmishers ?

If you read through the material above you will see that additional figures will come in due course, skirmishers, zouaves, cavalry, wagons.

Comparing with Victrix 12mm is interesting

Victrix 12mm figures are individual WW2 poses, not much to compare against 12mm 10 man strips.

Kallistra 12mm ACW figures are a good match.

Kallistra ACW are a near-perfect match.

If I can find mine, in a moving box, somewhere, I will post a comparison photo.

Kallistra ACW versus Warlord Games ACW

link

I haven't been much interested in these but the pictures actually look quite good ..

So perhaps a after all …

Phil

Thirteen … point five .. millimeter? What fresh hell is this?

I agree with Justin.

It appears that Warlord Games is indeed creating their own proprietary scale of wargame, and probably intend to cover other wars besides American Civil War in the future. There's been talk of Napoleonics, American War of Independence, etc.

I generally don't see what all the fuss is about. Is 12mm not also one of those "weird scales" of wargaming minis? What about 3mm? Or 6mm?

To those saying that if you buy this mini. range you are "beholden" to Warlord for anything else you need for the game. Well, lol…name me any wargame. You need to buy some miniatures for it.

What I find amusing are the complaints that, "Ohhh, well I already game Civil War in 15mm, I can't use these with them!" Ummmmm…is anybody forcing you buy these? Or forcing you to game in a particular scale?

Where does this assumption come from that any and all miniature ranges have to be compatible with what you already own? Where does it say that Warlord is obligated to produce minis. that fit your existing armies? You've already got a dozen different other companies for 15mm.

What I think is great about this, is that Warlord is offering a way to get into the Civil War period at a really nice scale at a lower cost than if you did 15mm or 25/28mm. And the multi-basing is streamlining assembly and painting as well, which will attract new players. Rather than looking at it as Warlord Games "forcing you" to buy from them, why not look at it as a great alternative to get into a particular historical war with an awesome range of minis. to back it up?

I for one have absolutely no problem with buying additional sets from Warlord Games to supplement the starter set. That's what you do with any game any way!

Plus as has been show above, these are very closely compatible with Kallistra's 12mm ACW so you have another option to supplement Warlord's stuff.

Well said Mr Baranovich.

+1 to Baranovich.

I have no more interest in these than a new range of 28mm ACW as my collection is 20mm…

Admire them and move on..

Mike

Another +1 Baranovich.

Anyone carping about the size of these, or Victrix, simply does not belong to their target market. They are producing a game in a box, for people who like a game in a box.

I've got several thousand 15mm ACW. I'm not their target market, but I love what they did.

Whilst not of interest to me, I see no real problem with a new scale. No, they don'y match anything I currently have, but I don't have to buy them if I don't want to.

I'm sure that the manufacturers have a sound business plan, as setting off with something new isn't a cheap enterprise. So long as they support it with plenty of options then good luck to them, especially if it encourages new gamers into the hobby.

I got a set as a gift lately, and they really do look nice. I would have preferred, however, if they had put in some variance into the lineup of men.
That said, I am not into 15mm (nor 18 or 13.5) for ACW, so I will probably not build them and most certainly not paint them up – I just keep them for reference. The idea is good, and it makes up good looking units fast. If you are just looking for a start into ACW they are pobably a good way.

Take your pick and back your fancy.

i am also saddened by the figs themselves, but i love the look from the couple of foot view.

i am thinking 3 bases instead of 5 for a regiment. which ironically is right around where my 28mm regiments are table width wise.

I don't have any ACW so i am in a different spot than most.

its pretty gamey, but the detail is going to be less to those who are going to be casual gamers, who this seems to be aimed at.
its grabbing the board game crowd, or those entryway type players, or players in other genres.

its an easier introduction to wargaming, than mine was! squad leader :)

just as an additional note and thoughts…..

I got a frame with the WI magazine, and its made me pretty excited.

Its caused me to really rethink some aspects of gaming, especially in the light of me not having enough time from now until I die to tackle half of what i have.

I mostly have been downsizing the last few years, even though I now have more time than ever. Just matching reality and expectations. when i was young i just wanted to game, whether they were painted or not. then i got too busy with career and family and moved into the "paint and hardly ever play phase" of my life. now I have more time and want to start playing again.

New periods always look interesting, and have wanted to game the ACW for years, but at 28mm, its yet another expensive and time consuming impossible task and unrealized dream, and quite frankly standard 15mm is not much better for the most part.

this comes along,and I think $120 USD for two armies AND RULES? because where i live, both sides are always needed for any period to get a game in. Just not enough players. So, like 90% of the objections people are throwing out here just don't matter to me.

doesn't match scale? what so called 15mm does? Ask me about my renegade so called 28mm ECW playing against my perry and warlord ecw, its happens all the time in this industry. put beautiful Blue moon 18mm ACW against most 15mm, it was just as intentional and no one accuses old glory of malfeasance. I don't think so either. its a decision we make every time we buy minis.

I have even thought,what if i NEVER paint these? and just play blue and gray like the old days? what a great way to get my grown children or upcoming grandkids to play a game without me telling them we can play in a few years when grandpa gets around to finishing them, and i miss their window of interest?

I think Warlord is on to something. Its hard to talk with someone about wargaming without discussing more time painting and spending thousands of dollars than most people feel comfortable with or have the inclination for.

What if this kind of introductory set of game pieces is just the perfect fit?

take the casual board gamer to this next level, and then they can decide to go up a notch?

No offense to the rest of the hobby, but its made me more excited than i have been in years.

@General Kirchner,

Very, very well said. My feelings exactly! I got the pre-order as soon as I saw the announcement.

+1

The General is lending voice to what many of us are experiencing here too…..how to manage one's time for desired expectations……but then to actually imagine passing that through the "sieve of reality".

(or just hoping there's a middle ground where we might find our own satisfaction)

+1 General Kirchner. I have the same issue with my grands. About a year and a half ago I was painting minis for Song Ice Fire and my game buddy passed before I could finish painting so we could play. I can't even look at those minis now.
Big fan of opportunity.

I've never played a miniature wargame in my life, but I like painting and modeling and just back into that after 20 years. This Warlord Epic Battles set is going to be my intro to historical wargaming. I'm excited.

awesome thoughts! thank you all for sharing. its nice to feel heard, and if I'm crazy, at least I'm in good company.

started painting my free sprue. moving pretty good so far, and building for when the set gets here.

These look like Perry sculps that are in their boxed game set that escapes my memory at the moment. it was Napoleonic's based. Game board was in squares. Fun game. Guns look similar.

Maybe Travel Battle?

Sounds like it.

link

Epic Battles figures are 15mm from bottom of base to top of figure head

General Kirchner – No offense to the rest of the hobby, but its made me more excited than i have been in years.

I agree. I initially bypassed these figures because there were a lot of negative comments concerning the 13.5mm scale, but one of my gaming Kameraden convinced me to look into them a lot more. He was excited because of the price; these are a very low cost option. I did the analysis and depending on the basing you select the cost could be similar to 6mm figures, which got me rather excited.

I have all the 15mm and 6mm Napoleonic's I need, but I will give ACW a go and these figures give me what I need. The change in scale does not bother me and I suspect I can use 3cm wide bases with these figures, which is what I sue for 6mm. I will probably not use the rules as I prefer a higher scale, but based on my initial investigation the rules do hit a key sweet spot for new players.

My preliminary analysis video can be found here: youtu.be/lNDjBx8lXXk

If not already mentioned, I suspect part of the reason for the slightly smaller than usual scale is the cost of manufacture. Smaller figures mean less milling and less plastic. There are also included bases, they can be smaller too. The fact they are on strips shrinks the sprue/mould and makes things cheaper.

I still suspect, after the look of the zouaves sprue, that we can expect to see this srue replaced with seperate union, confederate and artillery sprues.

The zouaves included extra commands, something missing on the original sprue (hense the extra commands pack) but may be rectified on any new sprues also.

"There's great information in the other threads, key points I remember
- Historical accuracy not particularly good
- still end up with regiment in line occupying 300mm. So still need a large table to fight large battles"

One quick adjustment is to go to 3 stands to a regular regiment and 2 to a small with 4 or 5 to a large. You get more mileage out of the bases and take up less table space.

A good friend of mine just had his car stolen, along with his large, metal, 15mm fig collection inside, which he had loaded up ready for an upcoming game – if he has the heart to start over, I'd recommend these Warlord strips.

I mean, they're a quick way to accomplish unit builds, and maybe for him, an acceptable way to even imagine doing a 'collection resurrection'.

I like that Epic Black Powder comes pre colored and can be played right out of the box! Great for younger gamers.

These figures are the old Wargames Factory sculpts that never made it into full production, until Warlord Games acquired them a few years back. I personally wasn't much of a fan of their sculpts. I also think that's why Warlord never offered any variation in this basic infantry sculpts.

I've got 28mm armies, 15mm armies. So, I thought I'd just pass these by. However, looking at some of the painted large battles people have posted, I am impressed with the overall look.

More info on Warlords epic ACW being from wargames factory please. Links?