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"Any info on Warlord Games new ACW initiative??" Topic


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nsolomon9919 Dec 2020 9:40 p.m. PST

Guys,

Does anyone have any background knowledge on the new plastic figures (smaller scale), scenery items and rules package for ACW that Warlord Games have just announced??

The email I received linked me to new pages on their website showing new Pre-Order bundles and used terms like Black Powder Second Edition and Black Powder Epic Battles. The bundles include new ranges of plastic infantry and artillery that are NOT 28mm scale but the actual scale isn't mentioned?

What are these new rules? Anyone been playtesting new "Epic Scale" Black Powder rules for Warlord? With their Games Workshop heritage the use of the term "Epic" is more than a little intriguing from Warlord? And new ranges in smaller scale and plastic is a departure from their usual fare?

Dennis19 Dec 2020 10:05 p.m. PST

If you read far enough into the Warlord promo materials you'll find they are 15mm, sort of-they are referred to by Warlord as 15mm and described as 13.5mm foot to eye; actually it reads to "mid eye," that's either an incredible degree of precision or BS. A quote from the Warlord Games Epic Battles page:

"New Plastics, New Starter Set, Updated Black Powder Game Rules. Introducing the all-new Starter Set for the wargaming in the Black Powder American Civil War era, featuring over 2,400 troops in 15mm scale (each man stands 13.5mm foot to mid eye level), in completely new, easy to assemble plastics."

As a WAG, they might be compatible with some of the older 15mm ranges; maybe Freikorps. A side-by-side comparison with other figures would be nice.

Oh, and the Epic Battles page is:

link

Wargamer Blue19 Dec 2020 11:25 p.m. PST

Each sprue has 100 infantry, 1 mounted officer, 1 cannon. Works out to be about 7c a figure.

RittervonBek20 Dec 2020 1:34 a.m. PST

I am kind of interested but 10 figures cast elbow to elbow in each strip with no obvious point to cut down might be an issue.

JimDuncanUK20 Dec 2020 3:13 a.m. PST

I expect that these figures would look fairly good given a reasonable speed painting pass and get them on sale at the next show for those guys who say they can't paint.

Wait a minute, no shows.

olicana20 Dec 2020 3:13 a.m. PST

I am kind of interested but 10 figures cast elbow to elbow in each strip with no obvious point to cut down might be an issue.

I think the strip idea is the whole point – figures with something like proper density, so to speak: rather than regiments looking like a skirmish line.

IMHO, too many gamers put their troops on bases that have far too much frontage for the number of figures used. For 28mm, frontage for close order should be 15mm not 20mm!

The same troops, based with 'modern standard' 20mm per fig frontage, then rebased with 15mm per fig frontage.

picture

picture

I approve of Warlord Games' approach to this range of figs

Mr Elmo20 Dec 2020 3:40 a.m. PST

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

I've been contemplating using contrast paint for ACW and here we are.

RittervonBek20 Dec 2020 4:48 a.m. PST

Olicana i don't dislike the presentation as such just the utility for me of 10 figures in a strip. Five would suit me better. On the other hand i am so sorely tempted!

Eumelus Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 4:50 a.m. PST

Oh my paws and whiskers…

And can you imagine the Napoleonic versions? French and British sprues, each with 60 infantry, 12 light cavalry, a gun, and a brigadier?

Tin hat20 Dec 2020 4:54 a.m. PST

As a dyed in the wool 15mm gamer I'm really torn by this news, One the one hand we finally, FINALLY have something in plastic other than 28mm.

Then you just know the scale is going to be odd and they simply wont mix, but that's a typical WG strategy all along.

JimDuncanUK20 Dec 2020 5:30 a.m. PST

It will be interesting to compare these figures against Kallistra which are '12mm'.

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 5:32 a.m. PST

Color me not happy. I just did a quick measurement of a Peter Pig, an Old Glory and a Blue Moon figures:

Peter Pig – 15mm foot to eye
Old GLory – 16mm foot to eye
Blue Moon – 17mm foot to eye

So, to me, they won't mix in a unit, and probably won't look good next to other units, except maybe Peter Pig.

A marketing decision, of course, and if you are are new to 15mm scale, maybe it makes sense. But I'll wait on this one till I can see more comparisons.

JimDuncanUK20 Dec 2020 5:38 a.m. PST

Anyone know what dimensions the supplied bases are?

Personal logo Cardinal Ximenez Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 5:51 a.m. PST

Maybe I overlooked it, but no dismounted cavalry is a bit of a miss especially with Gettysburg terrain elements in the set.

That being said, I still really like the overall concept.

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 5:51 a.m. PST

The figure dimensions given nestle more into epic N-scale (biggun "12s").

The infantry strips design, with the thin basing and peg attachment will be very convenient, because much of a movement stands surface can be pre-flocked (especially the space between the ranks area), and the figures strips then glued down onto the bases.

The whole concept seems well thought out, and seems to emphasize speed painting and ease of assembly so gamers can get their minis on the board!

Tin hat20 Dec 2020 6:22 a.m. PST

Great. Just when you think theres finally hope for plastics in 15mm Warlord gets greedy and tries to corner the market.

Warlord, just make things in 15mm scale.

Those of us who have armies in 15mm will still buy them
Those of us without 15mm will start with them.

Don't worry about the competition, if you are making 15mm figures at 3p each YOU WILL HAVE NO COMPETITION.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 6:31 a.m. PST

They look more like Warmaster/Battle of five armies plastic, So I think they are 12mm. I think they would be wonderful for large scale battles as well.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 6:54 a.m. PST

Looking forward to seeing them

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 7:50 a.m. PST

I hadn't seen this. I think this will be groundbreaking for ACW gaming. It will be interesting to see how GHQs 12mm figures fit with this line.

I didn't see anything about the size of an infantry stand. Does anybody know?

I think the brigade packs come out to around 9 cents a figure if you count a mounted general as 2 figures, and a gun with 4 crew as 6 figures. Then you have free basing on top of that, if you intend to use their rules/basing system.

I've been selling off a large 25mm ACW collection. This may break me, but I think I would be more inclined to use the figures with Volley and Bayonet.

Personal logo aegiscg47 Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 7:55 a.m. PST

I'm not sure what Warlord's marketing strategy is any more and I'm not sure they do either, as the company has been pretty schizophrenic the last year or two. You have a willing audience with many, including me, who have 15mm ACW armies, and who would be glad to purchase most items in the range. However, you make them into a scale that is really only useful to those who are just getting into the period. The whole "let's create a new range/scale that gamers can only purchase through us" would seem to create a limited audience.

Bede1900220 Dec 2020 8:00 a.m. PST

I got an email from someone at Warlord saying they're between 10mm and 15mm. He wasn't more precise. Said they were their own scale.

Bede1900220 Dec 2020 8:02 a.m. PST

Wonder what they mean by updated Black Powder game rules.

Tin hat20 Dec 2020 8:08 a.m. PST

aegiscg47

I just don't understand it either.

I've got 15mm armies that I want to expand, and new nations that I'd love to collect but the cost of 15mm figures particularly at the moment means this is not possible -who'd have thought we'd ever say that?

If you can knock out figures at 3p each, you've won basically, with competitors dead in the water regards costs, but no, Warlord has to be bloody awkward and introduce a new scale which means that thousands of existing gamers won't be able to use them, so that's sales to those guys lost.

The theory that it creates a new market doesn't hold water.

Just as many new gamers would have still got into the period with these figures if they were proper 15mm, all you've done is lost sales to people who wan to expand their own armies. !

lets face it you've got instant exclusivity with the price, you don't need gimmicks like odd scale. Who's going to buy figures from anyone else if you can get them this cheap here ?

Anyone?

Just baffling.

IronDuke596 Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 8:13 a.m. PST

I think this exclusive scale 13.5 foot to eye is marketing ploy to get customers to buy into this Warlord concept at the exclusion of other manufactures and scales. This methodology is the same as their relatively new ships and aircraft ranges. I am not buying into it.

Nonetheless, good models and figures and more importantly a very effective marketing program. I will nevertheless continue to purchase their excellent figures and equipment in 28mm to supplement my collection.

P.S. I agree with Olicana about basing widths and I use 15mm per figure (regular infantry) basing frontage vice 20mm for 28mm figures. 20mm frontage looks like open order vice closed order frontage.

William Warner20 Dec 2020 8:16 a.m. PST

My main quibble is with the artillery pieces. They seem to be six-pounders in design, but the barrels appear to be the size of siege guns! If they are going to all the trouble and expense of producing them in plastic, why not get them right? Besides, the six-pounder as a smooth bore was largely obsolete by 1862, and the rifled six-pounders mostly appeared in the West. Would a straight forward Napoleon 12-pounder be asking too much? End of quibble.

jedburgh20 Dec 2020 8:30 a.m. PST

According to Northstar's Facebook page the new Wargames Illustrated comes with a sprue of this range

link

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 8:33 a.m. PST

I agree that the seemingly proprietary scale is cutting out a lot of potential buyers. Perhaps they feel they are better off selling a smaller number of people armies as opposed to selling a larger number of people the odd pack or two.

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 8:40 a.m. PST

"According to Northstar's Facebook page the new Wargames Illustrated comes with a sprue of this range"

First one's free. Nick also says that he might be sold out of this issue by tonight. I suppose us scale doubters may be off on the wrong foot.

I wonder if these figure strips might be usable with a game like Loose Files and American Scrambles – the ACW edition? Each strip could represent a company with a regiment or two as a force (army in contemporary gaming terms).

theleadfarmer20 Dec 2020 9:10 a.m. PST

I note the WG site for this has a photo showing zouaves so i guess we can expect more releases. Entirely speculative but guessing they think ACW has enough of a potential customer base, but also that the troop type releases have a limited left and right of arc (not as exhaustive as, say, the Napoleonic Wars, which would be the other Black Powder period). If that speculation is right, I assume we'd see the ECW sometime in future…

As for scale, yeah. That's well ventilated. Maybe they watched PSC's Northtag, and Victrix's 12mm WW2 as the green light to go down this path (the obvious difference is that 12mm is kinda in the door as one of the 'accepted' (but not standard scales…13.5mm? I guess we've done the material wars (metal v plastic), the quality wars are kinda done, now we are in the era of scale competition.

Rdfraf Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 9:14 a.m. PST

I already have ACW in 15mm (really18mm), 10mm and 28mm but I will buy this set all the same. Shouldn't it be shoulder to shoulder anyway?

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 10:00 a.m. PST

Yep Rdfraf shoulder to shoulder.

People can do height adjustments with spacers under stands, sanding figure bases down, etc., but really, there's more than just differences in scale here that might keep someone's previous collection not looking compatible Warlord is using the strips molding technique to bring figures shoulder to shoulder, and enabling regimental formation depths to be tighter too (so more of the actual linear look is achieved than lines of 'blocks' and this depth anomaly gets more exaggerated as the figure size goes up too).

These thick battle lines hasn't been the game communities' fault either……rule designers have needed to make their recommended stand sizes fit a wide range of figure dimensions (and within general scale groupings for small-scale, mid-scale, big-scale collections), and while trying to compensate for thin to fat bodies, and figs with chunky bases or with that classic "rear leg stuck-out strut" ……all a pretty imprecise system requirement to meet.

Warlord has created an integrated figure size here, matched to a stand dimension that looks more linear out of the box. That's what they're able to achieve, and besides, what other figure manufacturer makes sure their sculpts always match another brands'……this is an endless and deep well for postings on game forums….."will X brand look ok with Y's?"

In the meantime, I've got my WI issue ordered so I can play around with the free sprue frame coming I really think these strips will be fast painting too.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 10:07 a.m. PST

From the pics, there are obviously more releases coming.

I'd speculate AWI before ECW.

Personal logo aegiscg47 Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 10:17 a.m. PST

To expand my comments from above, Warlord is trying to "Games Workshop" the historical miniatures market; but there's a huge problem with that. First, the historical miniatures market is much, much smaller than the sci-fi/fantasy market. Second, you usually aren't selling to gamers who get into the hobby, drop a lot of money, then are gone in a few years. Historical gamers are usually into the hobby for quite some time, therefore many have existing armies. Why would they dump everything to start the same period they already have in a different scale? Or, if you're gaming group is already into the period and you want to help out, buying a bunch of figures that don't match what the group already has isn't the answer either.

The Victrix 12mm WW2 range is just as mystifying. My only guess is that they're thinking that 15mm is so well covered that if they produced something for it, the range wouldn't do as well or be ignored. It would be interesting to know what the sales of this range are so far. I frequent a lot of miniatures board and Facebook groups, but I haven't seen too many finished armies of their 12mm stuff. It's the same way here with this new scale for the ACW. There are gamers with money who would love to purchase and/or try these new figures, but since they're not compatible it would seem as if they would be losing sales.

JimDuncanUK20 Dec 2020 10:28 a.m. PST

Anyone know if the Edinburgh Cameron Toll WH Smiths has the relevant issue on the shelves? It's a long drive for me to not get one.

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 10:31 a.m. PST

" Why would they dump everything to start the same period they already have in a different scale?"

I'm assuming that question is rhetorical.

Fingerspitzengefuhl20 Dec 2020 10:34 a.m. PST

I applaud both Victrix and Warlord for giving us a scale that gives huge visual appeal

WW2 will look less like a Carpark and units will have room to manoeuvre.

ACW will have 100 man units on 5 x 60mm bases. Immediately giving a real period feel with realist units.

If it wast for companies like these, with a few individuals risking there personal capital we would still be sticking drawing pins into air fix figures to convert them!!

Looking forward to see the reb cavalry and M3 half tracks!!!

JimDuncanUK20 Dec 2020 10:39 a.m. PST

ACW will have 100 man units on 5 x 60mm bases.

I thought the bases looked about 40mm wide.

Does anyone have more exact measurements?

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 10:57 a.m. PST

Things have long been pretty lively on the 10-12mm Facebook board (and we fans of this scale do indeed have functional collections we actually play with) -

link

I think N-scale fans could embrace Warlord's effort here, and so we'll just call first dibs on this Epic ACW thing.

RudyNelson20 Dec 2020 11:09 a.m. PST

I received several advance notice emails on the ACW system, starter sets and unit sets yesterday. Price was not clear nor was scale.

Steamingdave220 Dec 2020 11:11 a.m. PST

Think I will stick with my Fire and Fury rules and 6mm figures. Figures do look as if they might be similar size to the "12mm" Kallistra ACW.

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP20 Dec 2020 2:15 p.m. PST

WI's January 2021 issue video preview -

YouTube link

McWong7320 Dec 2020 2:27 p.m. PST

I too would like to know more about the rules. I don't have an issue with the scale, the figs look great.

Tin hat20 Dec 2020 3:21 p.m. PST

JimDuncanUK

The press release for WI states this issue will hit the shelves from the first of Jan.

Bellerophon199320 Dec 2020 3:25 p.m. PST

Sounds like the rules are Black Powder? They're packaging the Supplement with the bundle.

JimDuncanUK20 Dec 2020 3:45 p.m. PST

The press release for WI states this issue will hit the shelves from the first of Jan.

Thanks

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP21 Dec 2020 6:20 a.m. PST

Doing a photoshop measurement of the WI Facebook pictured stand, it looks like the stand widths may be around 6cm, or maybe the slightly larger 2.5 inches -

Cesar Paz21 Dec 2020 7:23 a.m. PST

Are these miniatures made of hard plastic or with the new Warlord Games resin?

Tin hat21 Dec 2020 8:24 a.m. PST

Looks like they are hard plastic, but who knows with warlords
Sssshh…. 'need to know' policy?

altfritz21 Dec 2020 9:50 a.m. PST

When you say "resin" do you mean the same stuff as GW's Finecrap stuff.

138SquadronRAF Supporting Member of TMP21 Dec 2020 10:30 a.m. PST

Too small to be used with 15mm, too large to be used with 10mm. Might do with Kallistra 12mm.

An opportunity waisted.

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