""imagi-nation" - Why?" Topic

Inspired to ask by:

TMP link

I am curious as to why people do "imagi-nation" games?
I collect Napoleonic 6mm and paint as per actual uniforms But none of the games I play are historical.

They are made up scenarios.
Then there is my up-coming Regiment of Foot vs. the Daleks battle, which really is not historical.

I would say it is faux-"imagi-nation" or something else.
(fimagi-nation?)

But, why do the "imagi-nation" people play that way?

Explain the attraction!

- Michael.

(thank you Bill)

I've wondered this too. With such a variety of historic European nations and uniforms, why would someone want to make it up? But, I suppose it's similar to fantasy armies. It's lots of fun to be creative and invent your own stories, characters, and uniforms.

Saves spending time and money on researching uniforms 'n' stuff I suppose. With the added bonus that the tiresome pedant™ can't amble past and tell you that your fusilier's turnbacks are the wrong shade of green/red/whatever.

I think my feline friend above is right. The research and anal distinctions might be something that they find tedious and don't want to do. I'd rather be reading real history books than looking up uniforms myself for the most part, although I do like to get them right.

I suppose it also allows you to paint your figs in whatever colors you think are cool. This probably appeals to some.

All of my stuff is historical though. I enjoy the research and history end of the process.

Developing one's own look for uniforms…and fictional battles…can be a lot of fun. It can also skirt around the discomfort that gamers feel for particular periods…etc. Some gamers might balk to see an M1A1 splashed by a missile…but if you repaint it and add the logos for the Republic of Frozbonia, it can downgrade the situation to just a "Drat!".

Haven't done any imagi-nation (aside from sci fi) gaming lately, but I can see some advantages.

I've been wanting to do a big imagi-nation sort of campaign using the armies and equipment of 1939, when most of the armour quality was about the same (low) across the board. I wanted to use essentially historical armies, but without the historical national setup.

That way I could adjust the size and mix of the armies so that they would be fairly even, and to avoid player preconceptions and avoid the "Oh, Germany invades Poland. Poland gets squashed. That's the end of that," syndrome.

I have done a couple of Imagi-Nation campaigns. I did not go so far as to change the uniforms on my troops, I kept the historical uniforms. For me the most enjoyable aspect of the campaigns was creating the environment, the countries, the economic issues and the logistics. The hardest part was keeping the players under control, thier imaginations ran wild. Very fun campaigns.

Tom

creativity

As my post was inspiration, I suppose I ought to answer!

My 18th century imagi-nation was borne of wanting to have a 6mm, early 18th century army but not to be bound to the research that I'd been doing for the Napoleonic period. I enjoy being creative, and developing all aspects of this fictional country is quite attractive to that impulse in me.

I could also see myself developing an imagi-nation, or imaginary conflicts, in those periods I don't feel comfortable playing the true events. I like early First World War uniforms and technology, for example, but feel uncomfortable gaming the actual conflict. I could easily see myself developing an imagi-nation or imagi-continent with a First World War aesthetic to sidestep these feelings.

As good a reason as any!

Can you write me in as an officer of some sort into your world?

That would be very cool.
I will PM you my name if you are obliging!

Reasons mentioned above are some.

Also – you can paint the uniforms the way you like with out rivet counters passing comments like "but the third button of the left side of the jacket was meant to be black with worn with green cuffs".

It is a lot of fun creating a nation and seeing it come to life, you can make maps for a game with ease, you can play any kind of battle (within the limits of your setting) and it also means you can play your version of 'Waterloo' with the troops you have despite it is not historically accurate.

@Hazkal – re your last comment – I know what you mean. I have a number of settings I am working on from Colonial to Modern. I am a huge fan boy of alternative history and imigi-nations.

To see units gain battle honors and develop an identity.

I've played modern air combat on-and-off in a setting of my own devising to allow interesting a-historical match ups of aircraft. BAC Lightnings vs. F-104 Starfighters or Mirage IIIs, for example. Yes, I could pick real nations that fielded those aircraft and invent a new war, but sometimes it was hard to find the match-ups I wanted, either due to distance, politics or time period. So an 'imagni-nation' also lets you cherry-pick the elements you want for a setting/army and run with it.

-Will

Imagi-nation is fun. I like the whole alt-history aspect, it's just like bringing an element of believable fantasy into an otherwise historically based game.

The other thing about imagi-nation is that you don't have to put up with uniform nazis. Surely a massive bonus!

it helps if you are an overbearing social cripple bombastic type who basically annoys people who don't agree with you and who you regard as tiny brained fools impeding your imaginary world vision.As for the uniforms you really haven't done your job unless you can empty a room with a long winded and highly detailed discussion of your (imaginary) units sword knots and drum rims and why you chose the particular colours you did..
It is a solitary place where everything is under YOUR control..I quite like it ..

Who would like to paint boring historical uniforms unit after unit, when you could instead be painting the much more exciting uniforms of the 93rd Royal Bongolesian Presidential Guard?

I blame Robert Louis Stevenson

I think it also helps to remove modifiers. I could see someone arguing that Prussian SYW troops should automatically get "x" bonus because they're Prussians. Now if they're not really Prussians, but from Baltlandia that takes care of that. I have a Russian force but haven't dived into the deep end with country creation, blog making, or uniform modification yet.

Ha, the 93rd Royal Bongolesian Presidential Guard was never actually raised. Colonel Mgoto pocketed the money from the salaries and sold the equipment off to neighboring Gnuastan. And when questioned on the location of his regiment, he had the gall to say,"Died, all died on the field of battle." Then he pocketed the insurance money. I have it on good account that his Swiss bank balance is very healthy.

I think you are confusing them with the 73rd Royal Bongolesian Presidential Guard. There was a company actually raised in very splendid uniforms. Of course the day it was to be inspected by the President, it was raining and the review was held in the Presidential gym. The company marched in one door and out the other door of the gym, ran around the building and marched back through the door again several times.

Like others, I think it's just fun to make up your own uniforms and such. I did a 19th century imagination DBA army for a DBA-19th century tournament a few years back. I'm planning on adding a few steampunk bits so they can crossover to HOTT too.

Isnt RISK an imagi-nation game? We played a RISK campaign based on the board and then battled on a table. We kept it to the Europe Asia continents but had lots of fun,

This bongolesia thing sounds good..lots of scarlet and purple I presume?

Because it is fun and a very practical thing to do. My friend and I both love the new Copplestone Louis XIV figures. He likes the British figures and I like the Dutch figures. My uniforms are based on actual unit colors and flags. I have my Dutch army painted and ready to go. He does likewise. But we have a big problem. The Dutch and the British armies did not fight each other during the wars of Louis XIV wars. No problem. We each develop our own imagi-nation and have a heck of a lot of fun. Of course I destroy him but that's another story.

In other words it's a fun way of fighting agains armies that never historically fought each other.

"I suppose it also allows you to paint your figs in whatever colors you think are cool. "

Arghhhhh, what an appalling idea.

I do imagi-nation stuff, but only using historical units in the correct uniforms, like Oldenbarnevelt.

I'm not sure I could bring myself to paint a figure in a uniform which I knew to be 'wrong'. (Bad paint jobs, laziness and mistakes are exempt of course!).

This bongolesia thing sounds good..lots of scarlet and purple I presume?

Pretty close. From what I have heard, president-for-life P'hat Daddee Bwonah has declared that the uniform for the royal presidential guard units should be coloured purple with pink polka dots on it.

With me it's possibly because Billy Liar is one of my favourite books and films. He has a fantasy that plays out in his head about an imaginary country called Ambrosia. He even plans to build a model of it so he can make it come to life (though since this is Billy Liar he never gets round to doing it).

Most of my imagi-nation projects don't get very far – but then that is true of the majority of my wargaming projects as well. My favourite one so far is for the English Civil War. I asked my non-wargaming friends whether they were for King or Parliament, and if they were to be the colonel of a regiment would it be foot, horse or artillery, what colours their coats would be and what devices they would like on their flags. They were all very willing to join in and gave me the basis for an ECW campaign that would probably be great fun if I only could get on and finish painting the figures.

I'm coming to the conclusion that imagi-nations offer an environment within which one can fight entertaining toy soldier battles, free of any guilt that one is trivialising the suffering of those who fought in real historical wars; with the freedom to:

a) design one's own countries, uniforms, flags and orbats if one wishes
b) refight historical battles using troops of another era
c) fight hypothetical or 'what-if?' scenarios, without being accused of perverting history
d) experiment with different rules and/or write one's own without worrying whether they reflect a particular historical campaign/battle
e) ignore 'national characteristics' if one wants for a pure test of the players' skill – or invent one's own to create a back story/add atmosphere to a game: if I state that Bosrovian troops always rout on taking 10 per cent of current strength as casualties in one turn, no one can say that's incorrect!

I basically went for variations on the ancient Greek city states for inspiration for the armies of my world of Karnorthe

For figures I've been looking at using the Immortal Miniatures Greeks but I have also got some of the Tekumel figures which look pretty good too. The Morchainti Empire may be a bit Persian..

In my case, it's just for exploring what-if History, or alternate aftermaths' consequences.

After your own Nation was wiped off from 'real' History, you have no other chance if willing to play armies of your country, don't you believe?

Lluís
what-if-catalonia.blogspot.com

I really don't see how imagi-naions are any different science fiction or fantasy campaigns.

Actually in my opinion all wargaming is fantasy since even when doing recreations of real battles things will not be identical. So it's just degrees of fantasy.

It just comes down to what you and the people you play with are comfortable with.

It comes from the finest traditions. If ever the Napoleonic Wars call my name, the battles between Freedonia and Latveria will be where I concentrate my efforts.

I have played such games as a way to match up troop types or equipment that did not historically fight each other. RandyLand was a fictional nation that had all US supplied weapons with each branch of service getting progressively newer gear. The National Guard had M41 tanks, the Marines M48, the Army M60 series and the Presidential Guard a few Abrams.

Each players got to coordinate their attacks against the others and they could switch sides if they wanted to do so. Older gear meant more gear and more troops.

Mike "Bunkermeister" Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

I'm coming to the conclusion that imagi-nations offer an environment within which one can fight entertaining toy soldier battles, free of any guilt that one is trivialising the suffering of those who fought in real historical wars

Which is why I'm seriously considering converting all my armies to 'imagi-nations'.

Regards

In addition to all the sound arguments above…
In the late "60 – early "70 P. Young in 'Charge! Or, how to play wargames' and C. Grant in 'The War Game' used 18th C. Imagi-Nations, advocating that they allow to adjust the size / scale of the campaign map and OOB to the possibilities and wishes of the involved players. Additionally you can get rid of 'national characteristics' and unleash your creativity when designing uniforms and flags -then, the geography, economy, history, political system, court plots… of your country.
See also this (so well illustrated!) interview: toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?p=312

I really don't see how imagi-naions are any different science fiction or fantasy campaigns.

A question of degree: *everytime* you play a wargame battle or campaign, you are writting 'historical fiction', anyway. Imagine you got Bonaparte killed in Egypt… Imagi-Nations are basically the result of such historical 'What-if?': What if after the TYW the German Empire counted one or two minor statelets in addition to the 'historical' 300+?
No need (for the 18th C. I know best) of steamtanks or warballoons (science-fiction) or Elves in tricorns but still with magical abilities (fantasy).

I'm not sure I could bring myself to paint a figure in a uniform which I knew to be 'wrong'.

If you designed it deliberately as'original' for an imaginary unit, not some historical one, how could it be 'wrong'?

Saves spending time and money on researching uniforms 'n' stuff I suppose.
The research and anal distinctions might be something that they find tedious and don't want to do.
I enjoy the research

I suppose it also allows you to paint your figs in whatever colors you think are cool…

Yes to the second point *within limits* and no to the first [except the deliverance from 'button counting and critiizing: "Are you sure the flies (GB) / fly (US) buttons of Napoleon's Mamelucks bore the eagle of the Imperial guard in 1812?"']. To build an imaginary army that looks 'good' and 'credible', you need a solid background in military history and uniformology of the chosen period, and have to take into account the geography and history: the army of a Balkanic Imagi-Nation recently liberated from the Ottomans will not field the same type of light troops, militia and probably Guard than a Duchy on the Baltic shore; a mountainous country will no have a high proportion of cavalry, &c…

Many builders of Imagi-Nations are as knowledgeable and learned as the average 'historical anorak' gamer.

Actually there is a whole gradient of 'unhistoricity' of Imagi-Nations, correlated with the preferences of their creators:
- some use purely historical armies (indeed they are basically 'historicals', their armies occasionally moonlighting in 'alternate history') and campaign map, just changing the names of the countries (France -> Gallia, Prusse -> Hesse-Seewald) in order not to be too restricted by historical precedents; names of generals and regiments can also be changed, so the abysmal performance of 'Wilhem-Frederick' and his famous IR15 would not spoil the historical laurels of their historical prototypes.

- some go a step further and also change the geography of the campaign map, so it fits better their scope and possibilities; and possibly use two historical armeis they like, but which never met during the era -say, those 18th C. Russia and Spain?
*Warning*! The temptation to succumb to the tempting' creative freedom' is strong: some well-known among the 18th C. gamers of the two previous type eventually take prudently the plunge and add an 'unhistorical' regiment to their forces -'Free Corps' of light troops are propitious, they were numerous, often small and not well-known, with often appealing unconventional, gaudy uniforms… The next step is to invent a minor ally to the historical army: in 18th C. historical games it could appear in historical games as a minor contingent of the ReichArmee allied to Austria, they were so numerous and diverse nobody will notice.

- Some as Soldadets above with his 'What-if?' Catalonia play a campaign perfectly historical at the start: but as the campaign unfolds, if Catalonia resists long enough, he will have to raise new regiments, and have to design 'historically credible' uniforms and flags for them. His blog deserves your visit.

- Some at last, as C. Grant 40 years ago, design from the start entirely 'original' countries and armies.

'An illustration is better than a lengthy speech' so those intrigued could do worse than visit this 'collective' blog emperor-elector.blogspot.com (links to some 80 'individual blogs) and this forum link both devoted to 18th C. Imagi-Nations.

"Why does the 18th Century attract "Imaginations"?"
TMP link
"Tell Me About Imagi-nations…"
TMP link
"My Imagi-Nation blog" (no, not mine!):
TMP link
Imagi-Nations ressources?
TMP link

Hope some will at least be intrigued?