"Is 3d printing ruining online stores?" Topic

Albus, I agree with you, buuuttt… not everyone has an situation where they can set up a resin printer. You need ventilation for that, for example. NOT practical in my house. Can't use a spare bedroom because there isn't one; my son is using the other room, and not only is there no room for a table, etc, he won't tolerate a window being open all the time plus the noise. If we had another empty bedroom, that might work, but we don't (house is a weird one with only 2 large bedrooms, not the typical 3).

No practical way to ventilate the basement area + its not well heated in the winter, and the garage is not only un-heated/cooled, there's no real room there either.

Leaving it out in the main living area is impractical due to us having cats – cats, machinery, and fumes don't mix well.

My son wants a printer in the worst way; he was even willing to pay for it himself, but there simply isn't anywhere to set one up and run it all the time.

So its easy to say that everyone in the future will have a printer, etc, but that really isn't the case, despite the desire to have one being there. :(

billclo Go FDM, The resin vs FDM to my mind is well overplayed perhaps even a bit of Printer Snobbery. My moderns are a mix of FDM mostly and some Resin, can yoiu tell the difference at 2 ft NO WAY. Its tough, new even tougher filament is available, not used it for models but its great for Just not seen the need to go that way for my models. GO look at the current thrasd .

TMP link

See if you can tell which is which before you look it up.

My printer by the way is in the dining room, no smell, very little noise (Prusa Mk3S + running in Stealth mode). The newer printers are supposed to be even faster.

You can buy FDM prints if you have not seen any and see what they look like for you self dont take Re3sins men at there word. My son's friend has some RPG figures in FDM and they are fine. Me, I only do moderns and that mostly in 1/144. I have scaled up a few 1/144 figures I did to 1/72 but they may not be a good guide I hate unrealistic detail so mine are figures without 2" creases in there trousers.

Albus Malum No way. The great thing is you store the STL file and only print when you are actually going to paint. You may end up with more STL files than ever miniatures in store but that's still nothing to store. The only problem with thousands of STL files is cataloguing them so you can find them years later.

Back when I was a lad the same thing happened with HI FI. In the early days (when Vinyl was the thing and even cassette decks were cool) even your average bloke could tell a good system from a bad one. However 10 years on most folk could not tell the difference the basic stuff had got good.

The same thing in 3D printers the old ones (we had a Makerbot some 12 years ago) and it was good for the time. However 10 years on and cheaper the Prusa print quality is far better even at the same standard nozzle size and they have yet to reach the peak.

"printing your own miniatures may be the only market!"

No.

That's a ridiculous statement.

There are loads of places making metal Minis, even still lead based.

3d printing will never be the only way.

Infact it will only make metal more desirable. Already GW are going back to it, which suits their ego of being a high-end product.

More people are pumping out 3d prints in their basement than metal or resin in their garage, the internet would have us believe, so why wouldn't companies been keen to differentiate themselves from the unclean masses?

The H Man, NAHH you got the analogy wrong, normal folk go for CD's and Streaming, the fuddy duddies still cling deparately to vynel despite its obvious failuers. Same normal folk go plastic, the fuddy duddys for metal. ;-).

There is a lot of metal in our club but even the old hands tend to be buying plastic now, it does all the stuff you could never get in metal. Even I have the odd bit of metal but thats 'cause at the moment I'm too busy with new stuff to warent the scapping of the last few soecialist bits of metal. My Mainstream models have been deliberately scapped as they are just not up to the rigures of serious wargames.

Scapped?

Opinions aside, metal isn't going anywhere.

Its far easier and cheaper for a small operation to cast Metal than plastic.

Resin and resin printing has chemical issues. 3d printing technical and apparently competition issues.

Metal can be as simple as some Lego and rtv, a hotplate and some ingots. Plus its reusable. Spin casters can be bought or easily made, made mine from a milk separator, she's hand cranked! That sounds wrong!

The H Man – can't agree. FDM printer sits in the dinning room close to the Printer. Take disk, load file from computor, plug disk in Printer switch on, select file walk away. Print done in 1 1/2 hrs or thereabouts mostly.
Can't be doing with resin which personally is over hyped hence speedy no fuss printing.

Ps just done that. Witing this while I print some Marder turrets, printer is in Steath mode all the time so minimal noise and no smell.

Oh as proof, being old and not too good dropped a couple of Marder turrts on the floor today, absolutely no damage, if it was metal guns would have bent, VIVA FDM! 3D print stores are growing, no surprise there.

I've been dealing with resin prints…

Metal can be bent back to shape.

I've painted it all.

Metal stands out as the best material for painting.

Plastic is too smooth, flat, no undercuts.

Resin can be ok, depending on the type.

3d prints are usually no good. Either they are too fragile, finely/softly detailed, mind boggling bits to remove or covered in lines.

Metals only flaw is Price. Its been used 100x the time of most other options, or more.

If they ever start mining asteroids the price should drop considerably, especially as they are trying to stop oil, hense most plastics.

I will continue to buy metal, home cast in metal, and come April when I retire, enjoy exploring the new world of 3D printing in both resin and FDM. Can't wait. Just do your own thing.

"3d prints are usually no good"

Thanks H Man….that made me chuckle. Not really sure why you hate 3d printing so much…lol

Just personal experience across a range of print types.

Some break, some have lines, some are lost in forrests, so on.

Plastic (hips) is probably more reliable and consistent over all, but metal is definitely better to paint and a well designed figure should have no problems.

Also sculpted figure are, for metal/resin, made at actual size in a person's hands, as opposed to computer engineered figures that have no contact with reality until being spat out by a printer.

I blame that for a lot of the issues with modern figure design.

TMP link

I found this interesting.

Not just the random warrior priest.

Not a printer in sight.

2000 figures. Hand sculpted, hand cast (less the plastic), shipped around.

In the end worth so much more than a bunch of crook prints, in so many ways.

LOL @ The H Man….you are humorous, I'll give you that.

Is 3D printing ruining on-line stores?

YES! I graduated to buying metal miniatures nearly half a century ago, when you could still buy them in shops (UK). After a couple of decades of resisting the change from 20mm plastic kits, I crumbled: 25mm historical and fantasy (from the late '70s); 15mm ancients (from the '90s); 6mm WWII armour (from the '80s); 1:1200 Napoleonic naval (briefly, in the noughties). I dread to think what the hobby has cost me over this length of time. I have also spent a moderate fortune on ancillary products (paints, brushes, glue, scenics etc). Why then would I buy a printer? Why add a resin mountain to the existing lead one? Easy:-

• the range of things I want to produce is enormous and otherwise unavailable – that's what provided the final push (There's usually one on Shapeways, but HOW MUCH!?)
• the cost is – after the initial outlay – negligible. Power costs the same as a fridge! – hour for hour
• the quality is as good or better than casting. Re-scaling is not a problem.
• printing time is much shorter than between ordering and receipt on-line
• no P&P/lost in the post/import duty from overseas suppliers/1-man operations going broke etc
• huge amounts of the material to print (STL files) are free – I haven't bought a single one yet!
• no orders paid for, which disappoint when they arrive (poor casting/out of scale – you've been there)

I'm sure I could go on. Once, this gaming/collecting hobby was at kid's pocket money prices. As a card carrying "old fogey", I don't know what kind of cash kids get in hand these days, but I doubt it is enough to feed the Warhammer/Games Workshop (other rip-off companies are available) greed machine, or sustain the likes of Shapeways.

The way on-line markets work SHOULD mean that low volume minority interest products can be available, as the investment required for the amount of stock to be held is low, whilst the target market can be theoretically spread across the entire world. This means it ought to be cheaper for the supplier and therefore the customer (remember the good old days of the early internet?) However, the same old products are produced – Tigers; Shermans; T-34s … you know the song: the public wants what the public gets.

I did the research. I was initially scared off by tales of poisonous resin, layer lines, balls of resin spaghetti etc – it seemed you needed a degree in engineering and/or chemistry, a grounding in Chinese language and Computer Aided Design, a specially constructed annex to house it all, constant upgrading to make it work at all, resulting in a staggering number of failed prints, unless you took forensic care and watched it like a hawk. Then the cost: the moment you bought a printer, it was on sale for half that price, as the next newest thing came along. However those old enough to remember the birth of the PC will recall similar horror stories. Now, no household is complete without several computer-based, internet-linked devices. In a very few years, the same will be true of the 3D printer.

I took the plunge 2 years ago. I knew I wanted a resin printer for the quality, and didn't want something that would take over as a hobby in itself, but would support ongoing gaming projects.

• I bought a half price Epax 1 – Everyone said it would work straight out of the box: it did. I'm still using the software as supplied, although I will upgrade.
• It runs on my clockwork/steam driven computer – no issues
• I bought a small Anycubic washer/curer. UK sunlight is not up to the job.
• I bought some special offer eco-resin and some isopropil (which I filter and re-use), and a box of nitrile gloves. I also bought masks and goggles and wish I hadn't bothered.
• I scrounged the rest (containers/sponges/scrapers/spirit level … )
• I installed everything in the garage (no ventilation problem: there's a hole in the roof!) and started a spreadsheet to test it's viability.

Each season has been limited to around 5 months (May-Sept) due to humidity/temperature and turnaround time, although one month has been lost in each season to unforeseen circumstances (weather/health). Total cost: c.£500. Counting just the 6mm, I have printed over 700 items, and costed on this alone I have achieved a unit price of 0.68 GBP. This does not take into account the 100 or so fantasy figures and various other subjects, which are therefore effectively FREE. I still have next year's projected items to achieve, which should bring a unit cost of 0.48 GBP/item, which – had the same material been available and purchased – would cost around £800.00 GBP from a store (at today's pricing, when everything is going up rapidly in price) – ie it's all paid for itself already. I'm sure other subjects will become available in time, which will complete my desired armies.

Soooo, in yer face GHQ/H&R et al. Anything else I need, I will get from a show.

The message to on-line stores should be to find a niche market – something new, different or interesting – and stop pushing the same old tanks and monsters. I don't have another half century to wait for the items I need. Old dog: new tricks – bring it on.

Sorry for the overly long initial post – I'll try to be more succinct next time :) – Kevin

"Now, no household is complete without several computer-based, internet-linked devices."

!!??!!

Guess I live on Conner's side of ground zero.

Though I think you hit the nail on the head.

People all into computers are going to be more likely into 3d printing. Those who aren't are less likely.

Remember also when all the miniature and toy soldier companies collapsed after the invention of home casting?

Remember when Prince August single handedly destroyed all the metal casting outfits?

Metal and plastic are going nowhere.

More likely Tech geeks will get bored and drift on to VR or something.

There is a lot in the posts above.

I see the impression, particularly Star Wars, has left. That of adults acting like children. No disrespect, its a known thing. Companies want adults to act like children. "I want, I want," it makes them spend more money. You see it a lot in Geek culture. Seems 3d printing is no different.

People not acting like children look for select products of a higher value, then they work and save to acquire the funds to buy them.

3d printing appears contrary.

@ The H Man – (with others' points addressed along the way. I didn't separate points from people for the sake of clarity and time – my bad)

I don't know what century you're living in mate, but a household with no computer-based devices has no:-

• Smartphone; Fitbit; Netflix/Sky – me neither to all of these: I don't want a phone that's smarter than me!
• Kindle; tablet; PC/Laptop; Wi-Fi/Hub – guilty as charged to these
• ECU or Sat Nag in the car – check
• Any modern kitchen appliances: micro-wave; oven/slow cooker; washing machine, dish-washer or fridge – if what you have is not run using a chip/IC, it's about minimum 20+years old and when it breaks down, the new one will be. That's what's on the market, whether you use the wi-fi enabled features or no (I generally don't). I recently acquired an oven which I only discovered was wi-fi enabled when I read the manual!

We know you have a computer, 'cos you're on this board, so you are not such a Luddite as you pretend. One can live in a cave without the above, but the world will move on without you. If you have a PC which won't cope with a slicer, it must be an abacus. 3D printing is not difficult and is getting easier by the day. Passing fad, you say. Isn't that what Bill Gates said about the internet? A decade later he got Ronald Reagan to spend around $35 USD trillion to wire up the US – some fad! When Alan Sugar brought the first viable home desktop out, it was unreliable, unconnected, slow … Remember floppy disks? You could get the text of the entire bible on one of those, we were told, and who would ever need any more than that? 25 years (milnet and a Tim Berners Lee) later, and I bought a PC with 1 x TB memory, which is now just about full (and in modern terms pitifully small; there's mobiles on the market with more memory than that). But that's OK 'cos there's always the cloud …

Of course metal figures and impact plastic will be around for many years yet, possibly forever. Computers didn't kill the printed word (although yes I do download books, and have even been known to print one or two), but look at the impact on letter post volumes since e-mail/SMS/Whatsapp came along. Birthday cards are as likely to be sent electronically – come across Moonpig or Funky Pigeon? I note a couple of card shops/companies (eg – Clinton's; Paperchase) have shut down lately. Sadly, the amount of dead tree material generated in some industries has increased due to computers – we just don't mail it to each other any more. Photography didn't kill fine art, but where have all the 24 hour photo shops and high street chemists gone, who used to process film? When did every other newsagent stop offering photocopy/print services? About the same time ProntoPrint and their like disappeared from the shopping experience, I expect. Free-to-air TV is also losing popularity as streaming takes over. Vinyl however has made a come-back: the music cassette is with us again (God help us!) I hope you get to fondle your Prince August moulds for many years to come, but it's legacy … heritage … nostalgia … niche. Most of the miniature companies are experimenting with 3D – mostly I expect so their customers get into buying prints from them rather than print their own. They can see the writing on the wall, which is why some get so upset about their favourite web emporium, as the resin eclipses the metal on the catalogue. Of course it's cheaper for them, and they would rather you didn't do it for yourself. Publishers feel the same about PDFs. I bet some casting companies felt the same about your beloved Prince August: How very dare you cast you own?! I would love to see 3D printing break the corporate stranglehold on the hobby, but the corporates will do their best to harness it for (their) profit, and to the hobbyists' (your) detriment, and if they can possibly arrange it, lock you into their system.

All tech (and don't get me started on AI!), can be a good friend, but a bad master (as a mate of mine says about booze). Us older folk may struggle with the newer gizzmos – how many times have you thought, as you fail to set up the latest TV, why don't they provide a (non-sullen) 14 year old with these? – but some are useful. I choose to ignore the ones that aren't for me (see above), but eventually the old system is incompatible and won't do what you want. You don't buy a PC these days, you buy a marketing opportunity. Bill Gates or Norton (other pests are available) will be along shortly to tell you that you MUST buy their product, and "not interested" will not do. But you still need a PC. While we're down with the kids, 3D printing provides the very "instant gratification" they crave. "I want" becomes "go print one kid" – and they get the result in a couple of hours – tops. They'll figure out how it works, even if their parents don't, as each generation becomes more tech-savvy than the last and the "problem" dies out … literally. Also easier for parents when the total cost is waaay lower than Flames of War/Battlefront/Bolt Action/Warhammer "authentic" output. What makes a corporate's output "authentic" or "official" by the way, other than they told you so? It's not just locking you in when they say you have to purchase their kit, or not partake in their event, it's locking you out if you don't. They don't give away the rulebook/system to support the miniatures, they SELL it to you. But that's not enough, apparently. Their attitude is then that you owe them a living by buying their minis. Not all game systems are a duality of mini and rules. The big brother corporations rely on marketing – see your own point ref feminine hygiene products. Which brings me to the "properly licensed" point. STLs are endlessly copied, metal figures are ruthlessly recast, IT programs pirated: there is no plus for metal or impact plastic. And I bet the metal figures are designed and cast using CAD or similar tech at some stage; so why in your words is a metal figure made, but if it's printed the company hasn't made anything? Remember how the hobby decried the advent of plastic figures such as Frostgrave? At £20.00 GBP+ a box, don't moan, just don't buy! But as so many STLs are free, I think 3D may just be here to stay.

Well Mr H Man, you seem to have had a bad experience somewhere with 3D prints. Tell me you never ever got a crappy metal figure from an on-line supplier, especially as there is no "try before you buy" on-line. Have a look around on t'intertubes at the quality of 3D printed product from very low cost printers. If the stuff is too fragile, mix in some Tenacious resin. If it's too smelly, use eco-resin (I do). If the on-line purveyors don't, you are buying from the wrong guy. Remember these guys want the highest achievable return, in the fastest turnaround time, for the lowest outlay – that's capitalism. Even so, "one bad apple … ". Did you stop eating shellfish forever 'cos of that dodgy prawn in that iffy restaurant gave you food poisoning? Did you stop driving after your first car-crash? Never buy another car after that SUV tipped over, as the air-bag inflated? My point would be, if you want it done right, do it yourself. As was previously pointed out, people often only pay others to print stuff for a while, until they realise that it's just as easy – and cheaper – to buy a printer. And colour printers may cost thousands, but when did you ask an on-line provider to cst you a full colour metal figure? By the way, no computer is "tied up" to a printer. You use the thumb drive provided (I do) or the clever chaps hook it up to the wi-fi (I will … promise). I've used standard Tamiya and Vallejo acrylics with no problems; I'm even experimenting with no undercoat, after seeing it on Youtube (try that with metal).

Of course there will always be corner cases: no space, pets, rugrats, health, cost, unconvinced partners … or can't be ar***d, but your objections amount to disinformation. I didn't include the cost of the computer in price point calculations: I didn't buy the computer for that (I bought it long before I'd heard of 3D printers). I didn't factor in the price of the garage where I run it either, nor the cost of the overhead light. And (UK-centric) I don't think I've EVER come across a wargamer without a computer. Again it's one of those capitalist maxims: if you can't afford the initial outlay, you can't achieve the savings – the poor pay proportionally more. I broke even in less than 2 years YMMV. Even so, I thought I was doing well with my 800+ items over two seasons, but 2000+ figures in a year: that's impressive!

To be fair, I'm not about to ditch 50 years worth of collected metal for resin. But with 3D I can get almost everything else I've ever wanted – and the suppliers don't supply – quickly, cheaply and at the same or better quality. That's undeniable. It's OK if people say it's not for them, but to spread disinformation about cost/quality etc is unnecessary. Sounds like grumpy old man bah-humbug head-in-the-sand stuff to me.

Now look what you made me do H Man! I wrote another essay. I hope all who read it were at least entertained. – Kevin

It may well be different for figures, as preferences for different styles matter more, but for vehicles I'm sure 3D printing will come to dominate, particularly in the smaller scales. For larger scales making the models is much more a part of the hobby that is generally the case in 15mm or smaller. I doubt every wargamer will have a home printer, but most will know somebody who does.

"Photography didn't kill fine art, but where have all the 24 hour photo shops and high street chemists gone, who used to process film? When did every other newsagent stop offering photocopy/print services?"

Actually they are making a come back.

Shark tank even had a new film based camera recently.

Photocopying is still available everywhere I go. Post offices, coulcil offices, libraries, MPs…

@ H Man – those are some pretty Straw Man arguments you've put up there. I looked up Shark Tank (as I'd never heard of them) and I find:-

• An Australian Company who don't have any outlets in the UK, and can't trace a UK store to develop 35mm film on their "worldwide" search app; it returns no stores found.
• It's not a new camera they're launching, It's just a reboot 35mm. It needs a AAA battery, for God's sake!!
• Even their website refers to "limited edition" (12 left )
• They use an argument much like yours: "reusable" and won't contribute to landfill – I would suggest digital demonstrates even less waste. And I wonder what happens to all those plastic 35mm film cassettes you're gonna need?!? They also appeal to nostalgia (their term – along with "reload and relive")

This is not a new film-based camera. The vast majority of photography is now digital and will not be returning to film any time soon – you know that: I know that – live with it!

The vast majority of text communication is also digital and won't be returning to physical inky-fingered print any time soon – I know that: you know that – live with it!

Citing corner cases as evidence to undermine a general argument is not relevant to the central contention. My local library used to offer printing and photocopying services: now there's no photocopying, no printing and no library. Some people in the UK would count themselves lucky to still have a Post Office. None of this is relevant to 3D printing.Sticking to the point: 3d print IS replacing metal and impact moulding in our hobby – just look at your own complaint of how the same product items are listed as metal/plastic or STL. It won't happen overnight. There will always be those who make and purchase metal or retro-plastic figures. Some bloke in a garage will cater to that minority market, turning out overpriced figures for the foreseeable future. Where there is a market, there is a supplier. Bemoan change if you want – it won't stop. Life is change and change is life.

@ Uscha – You seem to be saying that FDM printers are as good as resin, and may have advantages. When I did my research, the consensus was that resin was for detail and FDM was for bigger stuff like terrain – that's why I went for a resin printer in the end. I was tempted by an FDM printer (Pruser) and I would like to hear your take on why FDM are as good/better than resin. What are the pluses and minuses for you?

@ N Drury – All my prints have been from sites offering STLs for FREE (God bless Bergman et al on thingiverse). But there are a few items – all WWII – which escape me. Regardless of scale (although the smaller the original scale, the fewer parts – which is a plus 'cos I want to reduce to 6mm) I cannot source:-

Soviet – T-50/T-80; STZ5+katyusha; M1 staff car/GAZ61; SG122i

German – Sdkfz254; Flak 41; Sdkfz 7 (armoured); Ardelt Waffentraeger; 28-32cm Nebelwerfer; VK901
and – as has been mentioned in another board – any motorbike that isn't German! (I do have a riderless Harley STL but I haven't printed it yet).

If your everything available includes any of these, please give me a heads-up on where they are to found.

Cheers

Kevin

There are a few files for the T-50, not free but about half the price of a pack of GHQ 1:285, similarly for the M1.

I'm still looking for a 1937 Chevrolet and an early war GaZ-AA. (late war or AAA are readily available)

I think that for artillery there are more gaps, though that is equally true for metal/plastic etc. The results of resin printing in 1:285 are quite remarkable.

crashtestdummy I guess its what you want. Rather than go over more words look at this thread.

TMP link

These are a Mixture of Resin (commercial) and my FDM. If you can't tell the difference then there is no contest. I can't tell. I'm a war gamer, looking at stuff closer than 600m to me gets you told off for time wasting. Footballers don't pick up the ball during a game, its bad form.

Obviously FDM prints are robust, you could print in PETG but I never saw the need, I have dropped lots of tanks on the floor, no guns broken, not even paint chipped!
No mess no fuss, one off prints or batch printing and no cleaning printer or post processing, whats not to like.

We do a few shows and the comments we often get is "I thought these had lots of lines?" If you peer at them at close distances you can see lines, but by then you are going bozz eyed. Painted with a decent paint like Tamia, it reduces even them, some of my son's friends do RPG figures. I suspect early 3D prints were more than the 0.1 mm layer height we use (all the FDM prints in the photos are done at this thickness (0.004" for those using Imperial measurements).

I am told and some limited U tube evidence indicates that even this negligible lining is reduced with the new Pruza Mk 4.

Is FDM up to printing the rusty pattern surface of a 1/35 tank, the answer is no, but neither I suspect is a resin printer. That would I suspect need .001 layer height.

Crash test dummy, I am correct, "you know that: I know that – live with it!"

"3d print IS replacing metal"

Apparently GW didn't get the memo, as they appear to be sidestepping it in preference of metal.

Along with many other outfits.

Traditional miniatures manufacturing processes allow for reliable and known outcomes.

Investing in changing technology is not always wise, especially when you are trying to provide consistent products.

Look at fine cast for one example.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Traditional miniatures manufacturing processes allow for reliable and known outcomes.

10 years I have been printing FDM 3D printing in a quality,reliable consistant manner, that is hardley what you can call a novel and new technology. I would say its a traditional manufacturing process by now.

Stone age tools ain't broke but few folk would suggest that the new fangleled metal was not a good idea.

Perhaps you should still be advocating stone minatuers, they have bbe around far longer than cast metal figures. ;-).

Metal and plastic figures ain't broke either.

3d printing, on the other hand…

@ N Drury – Thanks for the response.I think I've come across those. If I recall, the T-50 was quite large scale, and expensive to make a couple of micro-scales from; I found a free OBJ file, but that's still technically above my pay grade for now, in terms of additional software and technical ability. The M-1s are also often a bit multipart (ie – too complex) for the output I want (6mm). Thanks for your efforts: but the hunt goes on!

I'm assuming your are a gamer, so some of what I found is probably not relevant, but you may not need the exact model. I'm also assuming you didn't mean the Spanish Republican Armoured Car, either :) ! There may be a couple of examples on grabcad and cults3d, but they are not free and are mostly not STL format either.

If you've heard of the next guy – just skip this bit:-
• https://www.thingiverse.com/louisdioramas/designs link – Chevrolet Master Deluxe Business Coupe 1937
• https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4460305 – Chevrolet Master Sedan Delivery 1938
• https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4457976 – Chevrolet Standard Six Sedan 1936
• https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4282706 – Chevrolet Special Deluxe 4 Door Sport Sedan 1940
On the GAZ AA front, 3docean and cgtrader do files, which are not STL. Can you convert OBJ to STL?
Cheers – Kevin

@Uscha – Thanks for that input. You've covered most questions I have. I agree that the layer height is critical (and I'll take the time – problems with many of the commercial print suppliers start right there: too busy doing it quick to do it right). Prusa 4 retails at £1,000.00 GBP+ currently. Sure it will come down, but why not just use a £200.00 GBP resin printer, if it achieves the same result? What you running – and can it be done without buying a heap of attachments/print heads and filament feeders etc? ie – what FDM runs "straight out of the box", that you don't have to build yourself, and then print half a dozen more parts to make it function properly? (I exaggerate of course – think of me as scared rabbit/no skills).

What about recycling old filament? I've heard it can be done, and I'd like to do my bit towards saving the planet if practicable. Have you tried it, and if so what are the costs/other implications? One of the reasons I would look at a filament printer is to be able to re-use fails and discarded trees etc. What additional tech do you need?

Cheers – Kevin

@ H Man – You really should try to stop this tragic dissemination of disinformation.

link – corporate blurb: "Our vast range of plastic and resin kits. painting guides, rulebooks and novels are the foundation of an almost infinite hobby." And the only mention of metal: "In 1981 Games Workshop helped to found Citadel Miniatures Limited, a manufacturer of metal miniatures based at Newark-on-Trent, in Nottinghamshire." Where are Citadel now then? On E-bay mostly, although I admit to owning a few hundred, bought in the 1970s & '80s.

link - Fulgrim Transfigured – £175.00 GBP Featured on the shop page, and it's not only ludicrously expensive, it's … (drum roll) …

… RESIN!

I'd say that's a company that got the e-mail OK, wouldn't you? Of course they don't want YOU to print it, if they can sell it to you.

The Web is awash with posts/threads/articles about how GW is not producing metal figures any more except for limited editions, or are moving to plastic/resin – ie abandoning metal, totally, or at least for the larger part.

Back in 1957 Fiat launched their post-war euro-version of the shi*ty little bubble car. In 2023 you can still buy the Fiat 500 – it's still a shi*ty little bubble car. Some people presumably still buy them, but it's not exactly the future of motoring. You can stick your head in the sand (or anywhere else you prefer), your arguments are pure sophistry (that's not good). They have little or nothing to do with the original contention, and I will not be responding to any more of your spurious, specious nit-picking, in this thread or any other.

Thank you crashtestdummy, actually I meant the Chevrolet the SCW a/c was based on, –

as shown here – link

T-50 link
T-80 link

@ N Drury – It was the armoured car you were after! Here's the site for the grabcad file. It purports to be free (my favourite price!) I'm not registered, so I don't know if this will work out, but, for what it's worth …

grabcad.com/library/aac-1937-1

Those light tanks files would be ideal – if free. Once I've printed all the free stuff I've stored, I may have to bite the bullet and pay my five bucks into the system. They have been added to the "potentials" list. At least I know they are out there now, so my thanks for those.

Cheers – Kevin

I'm not the one practising "tragic dissemination of disinformation."

I'm not the one presenting "pure sophistry."

Oh, look I found some:

"Where are Citadel now then?"

They are part of GW, as that have always/almost always been. I believe it's a brand they still use. Although, in recent days they seem to have dropped GW and forge world, so anything is possible at this point.

"Fulgrim Transfigured"

Just to clarify, I believe that's a cast resin figure, not printed, although the master may be.

And just in case anyone missed the "tragic dissemination of disinformation" or "pure sophistry."

"The Web is awash with posts/threads/articles about how GW is not producing metal figures any more except for limited editions, or are moving to plastic/resin – ie abandoning metal, totally, or at least for the larger part."

Considering they were offering metal LOTR earlier in the year and the fact GW have stated that TOW will feature metal miniatures, Id say metal production is only set to increase at GW.

"Alongside these new and returning kits which form the bulk (or entirety) of your force, there will also be a selection of returning metal heroes and specialist units that will be available to order direct from games-workshop.com." link below.

link

@Major Thom … many thanks … I really try to take care of each print I do for a customer as I actually set them up by hand for the supports to make sure none run into key details of the model like the face.

@Raynman … there are several good 3-D print shops. I have one in the USA. For 30mm scale models printed in very high end almost shatter proof resin (I bounce our models off tables at shows to demonstrate this) … I think our prices and time to ship are very competitive. So you can check out ImpactMiniatures.com if you ever have a file you need printed.

One full disclosure point … we use a expensive high end resin to make almost unbreakable minis for gaming. Human sized models are very reasonable ($6 to $9 USD) but we cannot affordably print large models for customers. Best to find a good FDM shop for that.

crashtestdummy I have a PRUSA I3s+ I think and a Monoprice I3 Mini. Av ery similar Printer is around by Whanho as a Mini.

The Wanho prints anything the Prusa can but slower. We ware talking anout this a short while ago on a spirited bit of thread that divereged as to wheather the hobby is servered best by little companies not hulking great ones like GW.

Seems to me for a bit under £500.00 GBP you can get your fisrt army at least in 1/144 or WW2, the only areas I heve decent knowledge of.

That is £300.00 GBP for an FDM printer
Simplify 3D slicer, about £150.00 GBP last time I looked but a while ago. this makes supports needed for models very simple and relatievely easy to pull off.
That leaves £25.00 GBP for Fillament (1 kg) is enough for 50+ vehicles depending on size.

Actually that leaves about £25.00 GBP for even buying some STL's

None of my printers have needed consumables untill they have used a few 1kg reels.

Resin printers do seem to have limits not mentioned. In another thread one gent noted printing things with cavities like for a locking turret were difficult to cure in resin, no issue whatsoever for an FDM printer.

What this does is free you from the money grabbing big companies and lets the hobby progerss without its tyrany imposed to extract the maost money for the least invertment.

To be honest I hve put my scap plastic in the bin its PLA so just cornstarch. There is very little waste, a bit of support material proably only a few percent of the model.

What you do have to check is thet the build plate is bigenough for your bigget model.

The downside for a cheap printer like I have outlined is speed, it will take 3hrs top pring a tank as opposed to 1 1/21hr hrs but as you are not in attendance that's no big issue. Much of my stuff is done on the little one, my flat figures were done on the big one but they are very neumerous and at the very small scale the PRUSA sliser has some advantages.

I have bought and will continue to buy figures in metal, soft plastic, hard plastic, cast resin, and 3D print. What material I buy depends what is offered and at what price.

I have no plans to purchase a 3D printer, nor a spin caster or injection molding equipment.

In my other hobbies I buy a lot of 3D printed parts and models. Like every other material the quality and detail vary depending on manufacturer. I do not live near any brick and mortar shops for any of my hobbies, so my shopping is all on-line.

Dave Crowell Very few of us have a decent shop near in the UK (GW does not count, far to specialized and expensive for me). Sometimes some manufactures turn up at War games shows and we go to a few each year as some are less than 2hrs drive away.

All of you metal haters and 3-d print lovers are missing the big issue….printed miniatures BREAK way too easily !!!!!!
I like seeing they're myriad of details but handling them is problematic. I am extremely facile with my fingers but these printed figures with they're tiny bits just don't lend themselves to being handled…kind of defeats they're intentions.
Also, I like to use washes, shades and contrast paints and dry brushing, so with the printing artefact lines ringing some prints and they're tendency to show under theses techniques I'm not really satisfied with the results of 3-D printing. Maybe this last issue will go away in time with better machines.

HASBRO AND GW are going to kill the stores faster then the 3d prints are going to!!!! you need to read about what Hasbro is doing! everyone want just to offer video games!!! while you are worried about 3d prints you really need to worry about the 2 BIG GIANTS IN THE INDUSTRY JUST DUMPING PHYSICAL ALTOGETHER AND ONLY OFFERING DIGITAL GAMES TO PLAY ON COMPUTER SCREENS!