"Post Apocalyptic...what sort of setting comes to mind?" Topic

When you see the words Middle Earth, we share a fairly clear and comparable common vision.

If I say Bug Hunt, still I feel we are on something of the same page…us vs. bugs/aliens…but the fine lines and defining flavors start to blend a bit.

And so forth, inserting dozens of comparable pairings of gamable setting words of power.

But Post Apocalyptic, this does offer quite the umbrella doesn't it?

The term could easily be applied to any fallen society/culture that has been rocked to it's foundation to the point where a reasonable chance of rebooting the process is limited…and this can be a fairly limited zone of affect if the potential for leaving the area is severely reduced/eliminated.

When the Black Death reached England in the summer of 1348, I suspect that wet Summer was the last one where people smiled for many years.

In just two years the disease killed between 35-40% England's population; fatalities may have reached as high as 2-3 million dead.

I suspect the loss of life along with the strain of religious pressures…all those who went without last rites or even proper burial…in their eyes, most who died were taking a fast track to hell.

More than likely the reconstructive years were seen with little hope, especially from the washed and uneducated masses…they were living within a post apocalyptic time.

And with new outbreaks popping up 5-6 times over the next 200+ years…I suspect hope was in high demand and short supply.

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This template of hopelessness is used in part to overlay on many post apocalyptic settings…even Mad Max with the loss of the modern age, loss of resources, and certainly some regret fro living in a desert when the fall happened.

Certainly the cities would have been hit the worst, with concentrated populations and needs of the same. But even the most remote community would suffer from a lack of contact with the sea/rivers/lakes and the breadbasket regions that the society relied upon.

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Anyway, what vision did you see in your head when posed with the words Post Apocalyptic?

If you hate the idea of the setting then please accept my apologies, I am looking for constructive data for gaming purposes.

Yes I realize the most difficult aspect of a Post Apocalyptic setting is this overwhelming lack of potential…certainly a depressive consideration, unless one applies some measure of hope to the setting.

So getting beyond that element, as there is no getting around it, without a chance for change and potential of hope there is little to drive a story, a game, or a campaign.

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Do you like your Post Apocalyptic setting with:

a scorched Earth sort of setting with many common resources in limited supply? What was once green and fertile has been wasted away; insert hope, oasis's and pockets of green centered around water for example.

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Is their a certain time/date that comes to mind? Do you prefer a year 01-03 or much much further, with the big bad being a story that great great grandpa lived through?

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Do you see technology as it is (was) with possession and operating being a common issue…or is the tech more along the lines of being the tools of the ancients?

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And dare I ask…viable mutations? Do you like to prospect of mutants with positive (and some negative) changes…be these somewhat reasonable like heightened senses or modified digestive system…or the more superhero sort of mutations like the x-men?

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I know this subject pops up on a fairly regular basis, but it is one that I mull over and when a thought hits me, I usually share with my TMP brothers in arms to debate the potential.

So what say you…keepers of the law, scavengers of the wastes, hunters of the monkey-dogs, and wandering bards of the Elvi?

"The Day After"
"Gamma World"
"Mad Max"
"Planet of the Apes" without the apes.

Hmmm – well, that is a very good question

To me, post-Apoc is pre-industrial civilization, mostly little villages and small city-states; green areas but waste-lands in between; not much old tech surviving, and on the edges of the wastelands there are people and wildlife that includes mutants

I'm all over the place about it… depending on mood.

I like the 50's era nuttiness of something like Psychobilly Retropocalypse / Atomic Cafe 1957… mutants, hot rods, giant insects, leather clad gangs. No attempt at plausibility or deep thought.
… or similarly wacky, the Gamma World version that's in the ruins of a retro-future… with amok warbots and disintegrator weapons waiting to be unearthed.

If I'm feeling more serious I'd probably prefer something like the old BBC show Survivors… post plague where the main resource depletion is knowledge and skills. People trying to quickly learn to live off the land again, while fending off the folks trying to grab power through violence. Lots of questions about ethics and what it means to be 'human'.

On the more fantasy/mystical end is something like Tribe 8… where the disaster seems to have been a demonic invasion… with angel-demigods leading scattered humanity out of bondage into…? A great setting in the wilds of PA Canada… the civilized world is a long-vanished mystery.

I think about a blend of Twilight 2000 and Mad Max.

That is quite the umbrella!

The Day After…80's fantasy about full scale nuclear exchange between the United States and the Soviet Union and there is a world left behind…and it begins…

Mad Max…scavengers and the mad scramble to own all that is left…puts salt on the wounds :)

Planet without the Apes…hmmm, Mad Max? :)

Gamma World…here is an interesting wrench in the gear works…I am a defender of all things Gamma (well to be truthful the new game has me questioning my faith) from the time of the book of metamorphosis's first printing…I suspect you are considering a nearly instantaneous change into a Gamma World thus allowing for the motorheads and other elements of a Maximum future…good old radiation makes a body better sort of thing…works for me!

Fred, Venus, Recon…also good stuff :)

Thundarr, OMAC, the first run not the later comics, and Kamandi.
Yul Brenner had a movie, not a good movie, The Ultimate Warrior (Following a global pandemic which devastates the population, Baron (Sydow), the leader of a tribe of survivors, has established a small fortified area in the ruins of New York City)
I also like Logan's Run but as the last hold out of advanced society battling against barbarism.

The recent riots, hefty food price increases, and Mad Max, with the lack of oil due to drilling for it being outlawed (and/or too expensive to procure due to governmental policies).

Of course, instead of rioting to get big screen TV's and new sneakers, they'll be doing so to get to the food and drinks.

Have you seen the Dawghouse lately? THAT's post-apocalyptic.

I imagine now something more along the lines of The Postman – a world where civilization falls not with a big boom, but a soft whimper. No radiation zones, no man-made plagues, just areas where lawlessness and anarchy have replaced the rule of law.

Scorched Earth. Mad Max, A Boy and His Dog, the beginning of Planet of the Apes, and 90% of Post-Apoc movies and TV shows.

I know, it was primarily a budgetary decision. It was much cheaper to film in the desert than to try to create a Post-Apoc cityscape or other setting. But it's still what I think of first.

Second would be a blasted cityscape.

I envision a society where any remaining technology is maintained by people that really don't understand it and are just following some rules handed down or superstition. Very clannish and outsiders are not trusted as they may be cursed (diseased).

- City of Ember
- 40K (rites and rituals to keep the machine spirits happy or appeased)
- The Sunset Warrior Trilogy (Eric Van Lustbader) link

I have flip flopped between all of the above and more over the years.

My plan, the plan, that seems to stick is one of this general layout

1. how to ruin the Earth…this is the first and foremost question IMO to establish the setting…how much, how little, and other aspects are in question…big nuke exchange with the magic of radiation painting over the existing world without realistic cause and effect has been one I have played with over the many years and it can work, but the one I am currently playing with is a single soft event that cascades with alarming speed (the new Planet of the Apes plays with the ideas fairly well…I will not reveal as it is still a fresh movie)…I like any number of soft starts, but to reach an end goal of viable mutations without a giant magic cheeto is the rub…so it must be something that opens the door for wide scale genetic modification with a fairly strong rate of at least limited success…I like a dimensional event…infection via the internet, a computer gaming company playing with symbols they do not understand develop a game that becomes an instant worldwide success…a weird horror game that incorporates interdimensional science and bizarre technology…the long and the short of it, the game and all the focused energies of the players set a series of mathematical equations that align certain energies, releasing ageless bonds that held back nameless horrors…these horrors touch down on Earth but without the continued applied focus and energies of the players the connection is lost…in a moment, for a few minutes really, the entire world is thrust into absolute darkness, and then it is over…but the points of contact, the people who were directly linked to the process (computer/internet users), and the environment around them are tainted…this extradimensional taint is what I will use to initiate my series of changes. (I could just have an alien rock with a carrier virus drop down and start the Andromeda Strain sort of deal to do the same sort of wide spread issue, but beyond the mutations I also wanted to "touch" the technology)

2. The Taint…this conflict of energy has severe reactions…but after it settles down there are zones of toxic environments…this happens quickly, much like a wildfire out of control…the key points of contact where the entities touched down are beyond description as the ability of the remaining population to penetrate the weird haze/fog that constantly pour out of these points…those that were not directly within the zone of affect or online but saw the entities either died where they stood or went completely insane…the computers, any computers or devices connected to the internet are touched by the taint as it is an unexplainable energy (there is a potential for infection from extended contact with these items)…these centers of darkness (weird purple-green) ebb and flow in a chaotic rhythm causing vast devastation and conflict with the surrounding environment, the flora/fauna, and the very laws of reality as we know them with strange hybrid plants being left in the wake of the flow, with odd blends of living creatures plant and animal creeping in and out of the gloom, as well as the very Earth losing it's grasp as sections of rock/soil are sweep up into the air in gravity wells (opposite of a sink hole :)

3. Time/date…normally I like a good 300yrs or so to have past, to allow for a certain balance and reconstruction to occur but with this taint bringing a fast change I can bypass this favored tool…allowing for modern technology (careful using anything that was touched :), weapons, education, training, etc.

Basically I could have have just said that Lovecraft was right and that the colour out of space is the evidence of the nameless ones paying attention to our plane of existence.

4. But this is where I will end the significant growth of these centers of influence…unless some daft cultist or insane mathematician tries to compress the corner of a room or fold a beam of light…so the world can recover, I have no stolen all hope…the zones though…as the sailors of yesteryear would say, here be dragons…

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Modern + Lovecraft(Ogdru Jahad-Hem)

The reduction of the world's population, with the seven points of contact being (sorry if your city gets tainted :) just outside Mexico City(15 million+), NW of Bogota'(7 million+), dead center Las Angeles(15 million+), north of Anchorage(250 thousand+), outskirts of Tianjin(10 million+), East of Mumbai(20 million+), South of Tehran(13million+)…total people who were directly enveloped (gone) by the initial contact 80-82 million with another 20 million completely insane…then the after shocks of the events, the break down in communication, the overreaction of some governments, loss of resources, etc. led to nearly 1 billion lost due to the event within the first few months…a virulent strain of the Emerald Flu (turns skin a sickly green) struck within the first few weeks and by the time it had burned out or been subdued another 2 billion had fallen.

There is plenty of room to play with politics, governments, social issues, religions, etc.

"Thundarr, OMAC, the first run not the later comics, and Kamandi.
Yul Brenner had a movie, not a good movie, The Ultimate Warrior (Following a global pandemic which devastates the population, Baron (Sydow), the leader of a tribe of survivors, has established a small fortified area in the ruins of New York City)
I also like Logan's Run but as the last hold out of advanced society battling against barbarism"

Great stuff there if you are ok with magic…which does not bother me :)

Good stuff guys!

Not popular on here,but I love SM Stirling's Emberverse,all electrical and explosive material cease to function,and the world is brought down to a pre-gunpowder medieval level.However,it is able to reorganize very quickly within those parameters,as there are still enough people with skills and knowledge from the "pre-change" era.

I have given a lot of thought to this since the project a few years back… the more I think about it, the more I think that a dark future set maybe 10,000 years in the future with humanity already out of the picture. Dougal Dixon's "After Man" is a pretty nice view of that kind of future, I can see some of the smarter critters figuring out tools, such as racoons and cats. I also like the idea of roaches led by St. Gulik, but that's my silly side coming out…

"I have given a lot of thought to this since the project a few years back… the more I think about it, the more I think that a dark future set maybe 10,000 years in the future with humanity already out of the picture. Dougal Dixon's "After Man" is a pretty nice view of that kind of future, I can see some of the smarter critters figuring out tools, such as racoons and cats. I also like the idea of roaches led by St. Gulik, but that's my silly side coming out"

Insert a large unit of Morrow Project types frozen away for the ages…wake up with 2011 equipment, education, and training in this new world.

:)

This: link

Al | ravenfeastsmeadhall.blogspot.com

I always see a hot arid landscape in my minds eye. I think of Andre Norton's Daybreak 2250 AD. That is a limitation on my part because I have seen some excellent post-apocalyptic snowscapes. So put me down for extreme climates and shattered cities. I also think of the Xenozoic Tales comics and the Cadillacs and Dinosaurs game from GDW.

I'm more of a scorched earth kinda guy, but the S.M. Sterling stuff is okay in a twist on the familar kinda way. Boise was a hoot.

"Daybreak 2250 AD/Starman's Son"

Good stuff…went a long way to influence the genre as a whole.

If you want me to have fun and game the apocalypse, which is probably a non sequiter then pencil me in for the whacky world of gamma world where anything could happen. I'm afraid I don't think there would be any fun at all in even the mildest apocalypse if one were to induce the smallest amount of realism.

I watched Mad Max ( thunder dome) and was amazed at how silly it looks today. Waterworld or The Postman or even Eli were near future, "optimistic" approaches to the apocalypse with some amount of play value.

For my money though, if role played correctly, where the gm describes a fantastical world full of equally fascinating creatures and found objects you have no right to really know what they are…you just can't beat the original Gamma World.

OMAC does bring up an interesting thought…One Man Army Corps…classic Jack Kirby

The basic idea is that the holder of the receiver belt stays in direct link up with a self aware satellite that can grant temporary abilities/powers via (it was started in 1974…a smart phone would have been considered magic in '74 :)…strength, speed, super leap, etc…a transmission beam, it can not stay on due to a burn out factor…

I mention the OMAC/receiver belt because it could be another item of power like the Sun Sword that Thundarr wields eeeeeiiiiie!

A Universe of Ruin. With bits and pieces here and there and horror in between…

Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. Broken starships and baroque left over societies.

I would go with a semi-water world. First, the Earth experiences accelerated sea rise (100 meters) and drastic temperature changes:

TMP link
TMP link

As massive populations shift from one area to another, new strains of microbes are produced, resulting in a sudden pandemic that does away with 95% of the population:

TMP link

After fifty years or so, the result is a sparsely populated planet with radically changed coastlines and semi-sunken cities:

link

That's the setting I would love to game some day.

Dan

The weather would be the more interesting aspect, beyond the water fun.

I could not get concise agreement of which direction it would go with the ice caps melting, which would increase the sealevel but it would be the temperature and thermal retention that would really build the water table…but I could not get the right back-up data to say what direction it would go, but by all indicators of such a fictional situation the temperature would swing wildly and with the high humidity I suspect we would be looking at a constant series of hurricanes.

So the heightened water, swinging temperature, mad humidity, and dozens if not hundreds of hurricanes…fun times!

I like it!

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Ice age post apoc, desert dry post apoc, and wet stormy post apoc :)

As for the Emberverse, how does the author explain the "change" that causes all the combustible tech to fail?

Six String Samurai

The reduction of the world's population, with the seven points of contact being

You could argue that the Taint would be attracted to the areas with the largest numbers of victim/souls/food and so would be more interested in large cities.
Like the Ogdru Jahad there could be many of them each staking a claim to different areas.

Great stuff there if you are ok with magic…

I feel the Chtulhu powers to be advanced science but the people who encounter it tend to view it as magic as they can not comprehend science that advanced.

I would go with a semi-water world. First, the Earth experiences accelerated sea rise (100 meters) and drastic temperature changes: That's the setting I would love to game some day.

one day you may have to play this whether you like it or not

The Emberverse "change" isnt explained at first. Later in the series it basically boils down to whatever "Supreme Beings" are watching over things decide that mankind has gotten too big for his britches and teach him a lesson.Hence the selectivity on what is lost.Yes, I know. But the battle descriptions are absolutely fun."Bearkiller" armored lancers and "Mackenzie" Wiccans dressed like Highlanders wielding longbows and lochaber axes versus The "Portland Protective Association" who are kitted out like 11th century Normans.Later they run into the Republic of Boise,who are basically drilled Republican Romans.Beleive it or not there are several times in the series that characters quote Osprey MAA "handbooks" on tactics and uniforms.

I liked the first Fallout video game. Mad Max with a retro-1950s style.

My apocalypse started with an economic collapse, which some saw as their chance to strike back at the super powers. There were limited nuclear launches, chemical & bio attacks.

Population is reduced by nearly 90% due to various causes.

A few cities around the world are preserved/re-built, but most of the world is in ruins. Settlements range from primitive villages to old west style towns to anything you might imagine.

Wastelanders produce alcohol based fuels for vehicles. They trade salvaged materials & crops to the cities for weapons and limited manufactured goods.

Terrain can be swamp, desert, hills, towns, rad zones, whatever.

My setting evovled so that I could play with almost any mini that I liked. I can use cyber punks, cowboys, celts, WWII, pirates, zombies, mutants, etc.

When I think post-apoc, I think: Mad Max, Wastelands (the comic book), Children of Men (run-down urban decay, fascist government), Fallout (all versions), A Boy and His Dog.

What I don't attempt to recreate is anything like The Road.

"You could argue that the Taint would be attracted to the areas with the largest numbers of victim/souls/food and so would be more interested in large cities.
Like the Ogdru Jahad there could be many of them each staking a claim to different areas"

I had considered the largest populations, considered completely random, but in the end I just hit a few spots to start the process…in the end who knows how these interdimensional being would think…but I like the large population as much as any other, although I suspect that the largest populations with access to the technology in question…so cities with 10's of millions with most having a computer would make sense.

Good thought.

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"When I think post-apoc, I think: Mad Max, Wastelands (the comic book), Children of Men (run-down urban decay, fascist government), Fallout (all versions), A Boy and His Dog.

What I don't attempt to recreate is anything like The Road"

Add others like the Postman to your list I would think, would be fun.

Agreed on the Road…no hope is just no fun.

This is how I imagine the coastal cities . . . (I hope at least one of these links shows up as a photo)

And . . .

These could become islands, for those trying to get away from raiders . . .

Dan
link

I like the look of a flooded modern city for gaming purposes, especially if we are talking 50-60'+ water.

The problem, for me, is the pang of reality…I know, "you like viable mutations but you have problems with buildings underwater"…the foundations would saturate and crumble.

But the good news is that in a metro area thick with buildings is going to provide some stronger base but the issue will be in the 1st-3rd+ floors, they have no resistance to the water and will be flushed of all fragile and soluble materials.

In the very short run, months maybe a couple years, these buildings may stay up but I suspect some will fall much sooner with the winds whipping through the broken windows; push from above and weakening from below.

But the fun news is that with buildings crammed into such a tight zone like in most metro areas there would be some building that would be propped up by the fallen ones.

So if I had to guess (logic + fantasy :) four buildings fall in perfect alignment providing solid support for the lower levels of the center building, creating a slurry of loose concrete, dirt, water, and other smaller bits…packing into the open levels of the standing building.

So a rough extrapolation would be 4:1 buildings and another 8 buildings fall without support, so 13:1 buildings…creating a vast pile of building sections surrounding one or two old ironwoods up to a certain point, maybe the exterior access is touching the 5th-6th floor with the remaining lower levels being buried.

If we do a quick count with this pic we can see 3-4 ironwoods would be left in Southern Manhattan with the fallen sections providing an interesting lower landscape with some portions being viable for foundation of new buildings/structures.

Central Park offers another interesting thought…let us say that the majority of the buildings surrounding the park fall like so many dominoes creating a levy of sorts. Certainly there would still be some limited ebb and flow through the rubble…but this would create a huge protected water zone…stock it with fish, crabs, shrimp, shellfish, etc.

Hmm fun times.

Solar flare!
All electrical grids around the world just gone! Like 6 months to 3 years ago.
Looting and mayhem abound, food fights and riots, gang wars, cities and towns ablaze from the anger of the mobs against their governments or the electric companies,
Mass murder by small bands of military units cut off and running amuck, with no real command or control, trying to find recourses for just themselves to survive. Lynch mobs, vigilantes, citizens patrols, local militias, and survivalist groups all trusting no one.
All with some what of one goal in mine "stay alive" or "get the electric back on." Small pocket areas that do manage to have electric back, deal with random blackouts because of too much demand or the equipment is just too old, or with those on the outside, who want it and will kill to take it.
Limited nukes from government leaders vowing " If I go down! I'm taking you all down with me!!"
Traveling would be most dangerous, Highwaymen and bandits, river pirates and thieves to say the lease, pockets of people or gangs who have gone cannibal and look at you as "Long Pig"
If that not enough mother nature has more, wildfires that burn for weeks everything in their path, floods that sweep away anything and everything and, hurricanes, tornados and flat line winds to finish knocking down what may be left, then all the disease and plaques to finish the rest.
Yes now that's an AP world to play in.

A series of solar flares over a year or so, constantly blasting us with EMPs…good stuff…blast us back a few steps to be sure.

Take this pic and push over 4:1 creating a bit of a barrier island around them…add some vegetation…a series of floating houses, barges, and boats…large ships ran aground the fallen buildings…floating bridges…flying bridges with strung supports…etc.

:)

All we have to do is take away electricity, and let mankind do the rest, throw in climate change, and stir.

In a simple context…introduce a mutating influenza + modern international travel = pick your number of initial and then followup victims

Even a low number could cause some serious issue, but I suspect a high number of 50%+ could be a spark to start a fire that would burn out of control.

As noted earlier, high populations + compact metro populations + mutating flu = hot times in the city

top 20 airports (to get it started)

Beijing Capital International Airport

Dubai International Airport

Hartfield- Jackson Atlanta International Airport

Barajas International Airport, Madrid

Suvarnabhumi Airport, Thailand

Madrid – Barajas

London Heathrow Airport

Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport

O'Hare International Airport

Tokyo International Airport

Denver International Airport

George Bush Intercontinental Airport

Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport

Hong Kong Airport

Los Angeles International Airport

Frankfurt Airport

Guangzhou Baiyun International Airport

Singapore Changi Airport

John F Kennedy International Airport

Leonardo da Vinci Fiumcino Airport, Rome

(I question some of the above but it is as good a starting point as any)

2007 busiest airports (good for background data)

So take the cities listed above and erase their populations to start the process, then draw a circle of 300-500mi range and reduce that population by 75%, then any connecting cities/towns within 250mi have reduced population by 50%…after all that take the final number and reduce that by 25% worldwide.

That is far more data crunching then I desire to invest into but it would just as easy to say the remaining population in reduced to 15% or so, a resilient bunch to be sure, the flu does not touch them but could affect the children in some measure…say 50/50 contract the flu?

This would leave the majority of the stuff around the world fairly intact…surely there would be many major fires within the cities, total shutdown of modern utilities (electricity, water, sewage, etc.), and then the issues of all the bodies and related subjects…I could see smaller cities and most towns being roasted to contain the infection and disease. Hospitals would be seriously suspect by the survivors…would any make it through the wake of the cleansing?

The next dozen years would surely be a dark age.

Either way it looks bad for North America…well that would be interesting as far as a game goes…being that most games are written by English speakers from primarily English speaking countries…working the game setting angle from the point of view from another starting point…the more remote 2nd and 3rd world countries without direct contact via the airports might provide the strongest population source.

That does offer another aspect of interest.

Those centers of 1st world treasures left behind by the ravages of the flu, the fires, and remains of the end of days.

The slow travel to get to these troves of potential…there is fuel for gaming right there…no mutants (aaaaaahhh say it isn't so!), no zombies (on the fence here), no aliens (meh un peu)…

Nice and simple, background start I like it, now you can throw in all the hazmat figs too!

Not all remote areas can be safe, a village in a remote part of Alaska was wiped out during the Spanish flu, brought to them courtesy of the weekly visit of their postal carrier (double meaning of the word carrier)
but could have a long term gaming campaign start with the cities and all the hazmat guys, and end with fantasy figs, swords and spears, Einstein said WW III will be fought with sticks and stones