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"Any Links to Maps of Coastlines After Global Ice Melt?" Topic


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Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 11:47 a.m. PST

Any good maps out there on what the world would look like if ALL the ice in the poles melted?

Thanks.

CC
For Ice Age coastlines:
TMP link

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 11:59 a.m. PST

I guess it would have helped if I had spelled "Arctic" correctly:

link
link
exitmundi.nl/sealevel.htm
picture
link

Really many varied estimates on sea level rise.

Has anyone actually calculated what would be the total sea level rise if ALL the polar ice melted?

CC

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 12:09 p.m. PST

The other question could be: What do you think the cave men did in the past that they reversed global warming so effectively?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 12:14 p.m. PST

They walked from island to island, of course.

Now, if the global warming fanatics are right, we are gonna have to move uphill instead of downhill. It is going to be a tight squeeze in some places, and the landowners of those higher elevations are not going to be inclined to share their land.

It would be fun to game.

CC

Personal logo x42brown Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 12:38 p.m. PST

For some good post drowning stuff have a read of White Bird of Kinship books. Worth the read if you can get hold of them.

link

My copy of the these have some good maps of post drowning Britain (no longer the UK but the five Kingdoms).

x42

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 12:38 p.m. PST

Stop that you guys. According to Ellen Goodman, you are as bad as Holocaust deniers.
How dare you scoff.

Personal logo Pictors Studio Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 1:01 p.m. PST

Good thing I'm in one of those higher places. I guess I should start stockpiling guns.

Maybe I should form a Global Warming defense league here in the mountains.

Personal logo Waco Joe Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 1:16 p.m. PST

From the first link you gave CC I conclude that it will be really sucky to be Dutch, Danish or Irish. However here in Texas my drive to the beach becomes considerably shorter

nvdoyle10 Feb 2007 1:22 p.m. PST

Okay, waitaminute.

Those maps postulate a 100m (!) sealevel rise, Florida and Louisiana are underwater, there's a giant new Siberian Sea…but the level of the Great Lakes don't change a bit? How does that work?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 1:26 p.m. PST

"I guess I should start stockpiling guns."

Pictors Studio,

You mean that your residence will not become the post-apocalyptic enclave of TMP members and their collections?

I will make an effort to travel there.

Wargaming has to survive somehow, right?

CC

Mark Plant10 Feb 2007 2:36 p.m. PST

The increase in sea level will NOT be due to melting ice. The Arctic is currently floating, so will have zero effect (already displacing its weight). Once the Antartic ice shelf collapses, then the bits on solid ground won't be going anywhere for a very long time (after all, there is year long ice in much warmer places).

The increase in sea level is going to be due to expansion of the water, apparently. I say apparently, because it seems one assumes that the land doesn't also expand at the same time. Which seems a dodgy assumption to me. Their is also the increasing amount of fresh water created by evapouration, much of which will be dammed inland, to be subtracted.

The 100m rise is just plain alarmism. Still, even a 10m rise would cause huge problems.

AdAstraGames Inactive Member10 Feb 2007 2:56 p.m. PST

Actually, Mark – the "rise from expansion of water" doesn't hold up.

Water expands a total of 3.4% from "densest" to "just about to boil" Of that 3.4%, nearly a quarter of that expansion (0.8%) comes in the last 20 degrees C.

Over 80% of that expansion (about 2.8% comes from the last 50 degrees C.

Right now, the ambient ocean temperature for 99.5% of the ocean's mass is A) below the thermocline and B) under 17 C.

LONG before you get to the oceans flooding the land by increasing their volume by N%, you'll have eradicated all life on the planet.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 2:57 p.m. PST

"The Arctic is currently floating, so will have zero effect (already displacing its weight)."

Excellent point!!

What about the ice on Greenland and Antarctica? Has anyone calculated what the sea level will be if ALL of that ice melted?

CC

KenH01 Inactive Member10 Feb 2007 3:18 p.m. PST

Think about the size of Greenland and Antarctica and how thick the ice is, and then compare that to all the worlds oceans. Spread the ice over the whole thing and I can't see it being measured in 10 of meters but more like a few feet.

what does everyone else think.

Ken

Personal logo Spacelord Sponsoring Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 3:45 p.m. PST

Doesn't water expand when frozen? would that mean that the arctic is displacing more as ice than it would as water, so if it were all to melt, the melt water would take up less volume than the ice?
I realise that not all the ice is below surface.

maybe not, it's late and I'm tired.

aka Mikefoster Inactive Member10 Feb 2007 3:49 p.m. PST

That would presuppose the The Antarctic is losing more by melting than it is gaining by precipitation.
link

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP10 Feb 2007 4:06 p.m. PST

Wow. This is an interesting site. I think it answers the coastline question:

link

CC

Zephyr110 Feb 2007 4:28 p.m. PST

To determine if you are in danger from the ice caps melting due to "global warming", try this simple test: (1) Fill a glass up to the rim with ice cubes and water. (2) Watch the ice melt. (3) Answer this question: Did the glass overflow? Yes / No

If you answered "No", then the laws of physics are working as they should and you are in no danger at all from "Global Catastrophic Flooding"!

28mmMan Inactive Member10 Feb 2007 5:00 p.m. PST

I do believe the issues of coastline reduction and public media science are unrelated. The issues of caps melting will be about temperature changes, salinity drop related dieoffs in the ocean, and altered weather erosion. The idea is that increased fresh water could produce aberant weather issues. But the short term dieoffs would never see the coastline changes.

Personal logo Dances With Words Supporting Member of TMP Fezian10 Feb 2007 6:17 p.m. PST

IF you were to assume the 'waterworld'/aka KevinCostner-istic future….and ALL the ice on the planet melted…how much 'dry land' would there really be?

There was a science fiction novel a few years back, where the military, (who else)…launched missiles containing some chemical x-99 or something at a 'nearby' nebula…causing 4 'rings' of ice to come towards earth…in 'waves'…

Supposedly it the rings would 'last awhile' and reflect additional solar radation or something technical like that…and they were named after Norse dieties???

Anyway…if of course didn't work as planned and the earth was beseiged by 4 seperate 'waves' of 'noah-ish' flooding, until most of humanity drowned in the space of a few weeks??? (one of the scientists from the project, who tried to tell the military their calculations were wrong and was 'pooh-poohed' off the project is a 'survivor' or course..along with a cross-dressing/insulin-dependent undercover cop and two other guys in a winnebago that have 'dependency issues'..(one is a bully, the other a yes-man)…and they all survive…(till the cop runs out of insulin and they have to eat him when he dies…or someone does)…

Oh, did I mention some fish mutate into giant piranah, the added water lowers salt levels/changes weather/biochemistry and additional weight of water forces changes in volcanic nature of the plates…new volcanic areas/active areas go inert and all that…?

And survivors on other 'islands'/aka mountaintops…are living in buckskin and happen to come by to deliver the scientist's 'baby'…as she could only be included in the winnebago if she was a woman as they were planning the 'ark' thing…

So in 9 months…civilization is completely changed…and that's where they leave it…

Fault Lines was a better novel for something like this though….

I think if all the ice melted all over the earth…in a short period of time…there would still be large areas of 'dry land' besides MT. Everest…but I also think it would change the climate/topography (besides just flooding) …and fault lines MIGHT be 'strained' …but I think some of humanity would survive…

I just don't know if those left would enjoy it much as lead doesn't float well…

Sgt DWW-feeling sorry for my non-gilled TMP friends….

Personal logo elsyrsyn Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2007 5:28 p.m. PST

Wow – I'm going to have a long swim from home here in Jacksonville, FL to anyplace dry. Wonder if I can use this as an excuse to the wife to buy the schwimmwagen I've seen for sale. ;-)

Doug

streetline Inactive Member11 Feb 2007 5:30 p.m. PST

I live on reclaimed land here… can we stop now? :)

nvdoyle11 Feb 2007 10:18 p.m. PST

buy the schwimmwagen

Yes! grin

Farstar Inactive Member12 Feb 2007 10:30 a.m. PST

Okay, waitaminute.

Those maps postulate a 100m (!) sealevel rise, Florida and Louisiana are underwater, there's a giant new Siberian Sea…but the level of the Great Lakes don't change a bit? How does that work?

Lake Superior is at nearly 200m, and as long as the sea level rise doesn't drown Niagara, the Great Lakes have an escape vent.

Personal logo Landorl Supporting Member of TMP12 Feb 2007 12:09 p.m. PST

I'm in Florida also, so I had better start practicing the backstroke.

Zephyr112 Feb 2007 4:23 p.m. PST

Or buy a houseboat…. ;)

Personal logo Swampster Supporting Member of TMP13 Feb 2007 4:42 a.m. PST

One of the pages has a link to a map showing a 14m sea level rise.
According to it, the single biggest area affected is to the north of the Caspian Sea.
Except this is of course not connected to the Oceans, so can only increase due to higher rainfall or melting of permafrost, and most of the latter will go north, not south. Extraction of water from the Caspian and its feeders is currently higher than the water flowing in, so any increase of flow is, for this region, a good thing and unlikely to cause the amount of flooding indicated.

Just a point to consider when looking at these 'Hw much will sea level rise' maps.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2007 2:34 p.m. PST

Yep. It looks like all the Irish and English are going to have to move to Wales and Scotland!

link

We can always make some room for you in what is left of Texas.

picture

CC

Last Hussar26 Feb 2007 3:29 p.m. PST

Some of the higher estimates for rise work on the basis that the coastlines stay fixed. The actual rise will be less because there will be more area to cover per meter rise as the sea rises- for instnace east coast of continental Europe. Stopper a funnel, pour water in at a constant rate and you will noce the rise slows as it gets higher- same principle.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2007 7:53 p.m. PST

Last Hussar,

Don't ruin it with real science! :)

CC

11th ACR02 Mar 2007 9:58 a.m. PST

Cacique Caribe is your real name Al Gore?

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP02 Mar 2007 4:39 p.m. PST

Ok. No need to be insulting here! :)

CC

11th ACR03 Mar 2007 8:08 a.m. PST

Sorry

I just wanted to touch your Oscar Statue.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP03 Mar 2007 10:36 a.m. PST

LOL.

My wife is the only one allowed to touch my "Oscar".

CC

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP04 Mar 2007 8:55 p.m. PST

This fella seems to have found a solution. :)

TMP link

CC

imrael08 Mar 2007 6:40 a.m. PST

If you want to game global-warming-apocalypse scenarios, population movement because of food production and places becoming too hot to support large populations seem more "realistic".

A few to play with (no comment on whether they're "real" or not from me)

1. Southern Europe and mediterranean africa are due to become substantially hotter and dryer – incapable of sustaining their current populations. Cue population movements and the creation of new deserted cities in semi-deserts for some mad-max-style skirmish games based around looting Madrid or whatever.
2. The US grain belt may well fall outside the temperature range at which wheat grows. Newly uncovered Canadian land may make up the shortfall. Cue a n-way fight between successor states of a divided USA and Canada over the most productive land – game with modern rules set of your choice.

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP08 Mar 2007 6:48 a.m. PST

Imrael,

Interesting.

I can see gaming a US military invasion of Canada (probably very short – more like a skirmish than a battle), and/or a Mexican and Latin American invasion of the Southern US, as the US population and military focus their interests further north.

CC

Mister Rab Inactive Member10 Mar 2007 8:02 a.m. PST

Southern Europe and mediterranean africa are due to become substantially hotter and dryer incapable of sustaining their current populations. Cue population movements and the creation of new deserted cities in semi-deserts

…which is pretty much the fluff I'm using for near-future skirmish rules I'm struggling to get balanced at the moment

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP12 Mar 2007 6:36 a.m. PST

I guess that what one culture might find unbearable weather conditions might be viewed by some other ethnic groups and populations as an improvement.

I would suspect mass migrations of populations from one sovereign territory into another. It would be interesting to see if the ones with the influx would want to maintain their original borders or accomodate the massive migration by giving up those (to them) "unbearable" territories.

CC

RockyRusso Inactive Member12 Mar 2007 9:43 a.m. PST

Hi

CC, you might check other periods of greater warmth. There are dead coral reefs in the landbridge between africa and palestine that are about 8m higher than sea level today. My aged memory says that this period was 130k years ago. Responsible for HE coming migrating out of africa.

Rocky

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP12 Mar 2007 9:46 a.m. PST

Rocky,

I will look that up. Thanks for the tip!

CC

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP20 Mar 2007 5:10 a.m. PST

A more realistic perspective here:

TMP link

CC

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP11 Oct 2007 10:24 p.m. PST

This is one speculation on what Antarctica would look if all the ice melted:

picture

Neat archipelago!

CC

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP11 Oct 2007 11:19 p.m. PST

This one too:

picture

CC

Personal logo reeves lk Supporting Member of TMP05 Dec 2007 1:03 p.m. PST

["Maybe I should form a Global Warming defense league here in the mountains."]

Or start buy land so that when we come a running you can make great profits by naming your selling price.

grin

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2008 10:51 p.m. PST

This is interesting . . .

link

CC

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP24 Mar 2010 10:49 p.m. PST

Here's my attempt at making a Post Apocalyptic Sampan (WIP):

TMP link
link

Guys, think of all the new raiding opportunities that will become available to Post Apocalyptic pirates:

100 meter rise
link

170 meter rise
picture

Dan
TMP link
TMP link

kyoteblue Inactive Member24 Mar 2010 11:02 p.m. PST

DELETED

Personal logo Cacique Caribe Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2010 8:15 a.m. PST

I guess you'll be getting some guests from Houston. :)

Dan

28mmMan Inactive Member25 Mar 2010 1:15 p.m. PST

mmmm 170 meter increase looks like a fun time…perhaps 200 meters?

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