"South East Asia in the medieval/ renaisance period" Topic

Is there anyone out there interested in the Burma/Siam region of S.E.ASIA with regard to miniature gaming and/or some form of campaign system along the lines of Kingmaker or Machiavelli
The area is still very beautifull and accesable and has a rich military history
So how about it folks

One of my favorite regions to research. I have written an article on the war for a magazine and Burma is one of my book titles for the Crimson Book series.

I got interested because my wife is from Cambodia. I had a bunch of 15mm Khmer for a while, but I got rid of that scale, and didn't really think they looked much like the Angkor Wat carvings that I wanted. I've kept that book on South East Asian Warfare that my wife dug up for me, just in case for the future. :)

andy

I am definitely interested, but it is hard to find sources on the period here in Dallas. I have a large 15mm Khmer & Burmese collection & wish someone would do Khmer in 10mm or a good quality 28mm range.

S.E. Asian military history prior to the 20th century is a mystery to me, but pointed to some good references and I might be very interested. Links or ISBNs would be appreciated if anyone has them.

humbly blowing my own trumpet here but take a look at
Timeline-mniniatures.co uk
The figs are not the best in the world but if I can get a following for the period I would certainly expand the range
I also sell a dvd called legend of Suryothai which is great for atmosphere
let me know your thoughts folks

Rudy
would be very interested to see what you are doing
my Email for you or anyone else interested is
barrycarter70@hotmail.com

<<Is there anyone out there interested in the Burma/Siam region of S.E.ASIA with regard to miniature gaming and/or some form of campaign system along the lines of Kingmaker or Machiavelli
The area is still very beautifull and accesable and has a rich military history
So how about it folks>>

Damn skippy I'm interested!!!! I've seen The Legend of Suryothai (even named a starship class Suryothai for SD:TNM as a result!), and would dearly love to see more information on the region and period in English (sources here in the wilds of *Texas* are hard to come by! LOL!!). 28mm figures for the period is something I'd add to my *Must Buy* list…so count me in!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Rajahpakdee,

your link appears to be broken; my system cannot locate your server. Could you repost the URL please?

Thanks!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Here is his link reposted

timeline-miniatures.co.uk

I asked about Timeline a while back. Here are additional comments:

TMP link

CC

It has always been an interest, but never a pressing one. I have a book or two on the Burmese. I'm a sucker for armies with elephants. 8^) I know one other gamer that would be interested, but he prefers 15mm. I'd prefer 25/28mm.*sigh*

CC,

thanks for the link!! On the Fantasy Discussion section here at TMP once again the subject came up of using hsitorical figures to make up Warhammer Fantasy Battles human armies. Now I have yet another really colourful and different resource to point out to people who know how to think outside of the box! 8evil grin*

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

ElaineP,

To bad I wasn't aware of you when I was living in the DFW area.

I found Half Price Books, located off NW Highway and 75 (actually a block east of 75), to have some good books. I would usually stop in at least once a month to see what they had. At times some rare or obscure book would be for sale.

Cheers

Chris

Please guys
I need to know if this range can prove popular or am I wasting my time and should just design S.S AND OLD GUARD
respond please

Raj,

I guess it all depends on when the range would be projected for release.

If this year, then not likely, as I have many other unfinished projects that must be done in the next 10-12 months.

If you are talking about 2008, then absolutely, as long as they fit with my 28mm Conquistadores (Foundry and Eureka).

CC

CC
This is what I am talking about
the 28mm range is nearly complete and mostly available now and has been for about a year
I dont get to a lot of shows but via the web and there have been articles in both W.I. and M.W. mags illustrated by our range
The 18mm range I am working on now and will not release until I can release enough to finish armies

hello?

What 18mm range?

Oh, and what articles are you talking about?

The articles can be found on the MAGWEB site under Time Portal passages. there is one issue covering Anc-Med. Burma. Another issue has an article about the Med. Vietnam area as well.

I had the impression the articles were on the Thai-Burmese war in the era covered by the Timeline 28mm range? For those not members of Magweb are there publication cites?

Rajahpakdee,

I would love to be able to click and zoom on the photos of those individual packs:

link

Will that be possible in the near future? Thanks.

CC

Hello?

Well I do not check every post every day. I just got back on Sunday from a convention in Atlanta.

Well since you do not belong to Magweb, here is the Bibliograpy for the magazine article on the Burma article. Most books that I dod not have were obtained through the library loan program.

I am sure that there are more books but these were the ones that I used and I felt would be easy for the readers to also get a copy. More books were added and these were re-examined for the Crimson Book title that will be released in the future.

Bibliography

A short bibliography of available material on ancient and medieval history of Burma includes:

Armies of Medieval Burma 700-1300 AD by Daniel Mersey, Outpost Srvices, UK, 1999. I do not agree with every comment but his analysis is very easy to read and can be used as a basis for further research.

A History of Burma by Maung Htin Aung, Columbia University Press, 1967. An easy to read examination of earlier works with varying interpretations based on Burmese views.

Harvey's History of Burma by G.E. Harvey, London, 1925. The University of Alabama kindly loaned a copy of the final manuscript proof to me through my local library at Birmingham Library.

History of Burma by Arthur Phayre, 1883. Kelly Publisher's Reprint 1969. Considered one of the classic works in English about the region.

Our Wars with the Burmese by Prince Damrong Rajanubhaub of Siam, 1917, White Lotus reprint 2001. An outstanding easy to read work which provides a lot of detail into how wars were fought in the region.

The British Humiliation of Burma by Terrence Blackburn, Orchid Press, Bankok, 2000. Though the work covers the wars of the 1800s, the illustrations show Burmese warriors and how they could have appeared during earlier times.

The 'White Lotus' and the 'Orchid Press' companies have a great selection of history books on the SE Asian region.

I believe there are articles on the Thai-Burmese Wars in WI #s 216 and 225 if memory serves me.

Hi Guys
I am currently working on dollies and elephants for the 18mm Siam-Burma range to complement our 28mm range
As a taster we have 6 DIFFERENT elephants at the dolly stage , which means there will be about 12-18 elephant variations .
I will not be releasing the range until it is more or less complete ,but look for us at Salute ,asuming we get a place.I am also working on bits to complete the 28mm range
sadly just as we were getting going there was a hitch with premises for production so we ground to a halt
We hope to be back in production soon and I have also in the meantime made a knowledgable new contact so again thats a boost for us

I am sure that this region that has so much going for it in terms of history and the sheer splendour of how a large battle must have looked with beautifully outfitted elephants,Japanese,Portugese Chinese and Arab mercenaries has to capture the imagination of wargamers ,if only the info and figures can get out there

Heard that there will be plenty of room this year at Salute :>). Does that mean you hope to release your 18mm line then? Anyone have any suggestions or information for some of the battles of the period?

I hope to get some at least into production by then even just to give a taste of what will be available
we will be at Salute,that is confirmed so hope to see some of you there
Commisar -Kersey and his guys may be doing a 28mm game using WAB with our figures and terrain so you may see the palm trees we sell to
1954Steve contact W.I. AND MINIATURE WARGAMES for back issues

<<I am sure that this region that has so much going for it in terms of history and the sheer splendour of how a large battle must have looked with beautifully outfitted elephants,Japanese,Portugese Chinese and Arab mercenaries has to capture the imagination of wargamers ,if only the info and figures can get out there>>

Rajahpakdee,

IMHO the biggest problem I have is finding suitable Chinese figures in 28mm for a variety of periods, including the early and later Ming Dynasty. *Taiping Rebellion* and *Boxer Rebellion* figures are avaiable from several manufacturers, as well as Qin and Han Dynasties, but after that we hit a wall. Is there any chance you might see fit to render chinese troops appropriate to this region in 28mm at some time in the future?

Thanks!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

I would be interested to see them as an alternative target err enemy for my Conquistadors…Salute you say? hmmmm

It is quite possible that had history turned out a little differently that Spanish or Portugese visitors could have decided to try to take by force the lands in which they fought as mercenaries(Portugese actually,i dont know of any Spanish presence at this time)there is still today quite a portugese influence in some areas of Thailand

RAJAHPAKDEE thanks. I have procured copies of the two articles in WI, issues 216 and 225. Are there any in MW as well and if so, what issue.

THERE ARE FIVE VERY THOROUGH ARTICLES IN MW THEYWERE WRITTEN BY A VERY KNOWLEDGABLE EXPAT CALLED GARRY HARBOTTLE-JOHNSON
CONTACT iain at the mag and he will let you have issue numbers
THEY ARE WELL WORTH HAVING BUT COVER A WIDER TIMESPAN THAN JUST MY PERIOD
HOPE TO TAKE A FEW MASTERS FROM 18MM RANGE TO WMMMS THIS WEEKEND AND WILL HAVE SOME STOCK OF 25MM TOO
HOPE TO SEE SOME OF YOU THERE

If you are interested in this thread ,please go to renaisanse message board and also take a look at the Baker.co website

Rajahpakdee, per your February 7 message, did you release your 18mm thai-burmese war figures at Salute? Did anyone see them? When will they be available for purchase?

Across the pond from me but I am interested as well in the 18mm figures.

Hello ……….. What happened to RAJAHPAKDEE? I would like to know about the 18mm figures he touted too.

RAJAHPAKDEE is unavailable at the moment but i will pass on this message to him. The 18mm rage is moving on nicely. I have been casting elephant dollies as well as some finished infantry. At Salute we promoted the 28mm range, but will soon be getting on with the 18's. I do have some pictures and I'll try and stick them on the 'workbench' page of the baker co website bakercompany.co.uk as soon as possible. Do you all think 18mm is preferable to 28mm? The reasin i ask is that these 28's are beautiful sculpts yet we dont seem to be selling many.
Comments would be appreciated.

The biggest problem I see in a relatively unknown area is sparking interest and providing easy access to information regarding painting, organization and battles. Ideally, an indepth article in one of the magazines would be great. For example, a recent edition of Wargames, Soldiers and Strategy provided articles on the Carlist Wars with great eye candy pictures, painting guides with specific vallejo paint references, a description of organization of the armies, a battle scenario and a bibliography for further reading. That combination made it easy to get into a period and sparked my interest in a period I knew virtually nothing about. If that cannot be done, then perhaps you should put together your own guide containing the same items and offer it for sale with your figures. You obviously could promote it as well on this site when published :-).
I am very interested in the period but would likely want that kind of information available to take the plunge and buy alot of figures. I personally strongly prefer the 15/18mm size, for battles and not skirmishes and other reasons. Some of the battles in the movie Suriyothai were very cool looking and should provide some basis for battle scenarios.

I have released most of the SKT 28mm Khmer range now and am trying to paint up a few for the site. However, it is not my period so I can't comment on accuracy or anything.

garrisonminiatures.com

I prefer 15-18mm figures especially for the kind of grand battles in this period. Hope to see your 18mm soon.

Hi guys.We had some figures at Salute but the punters either didnt find us or were too busy bying the special offer palm trees and plastic foliage to notice
could have been where we were(in the farthest corner ,away from all the normal people and nazi kiddies) anyway as ussuall things dont go to plan and for various reasons the range is slightly delayed
I try to put my all into what I do and I hope the results will be worth it
I will be sending the first pack of mould ready figs to Paul at Baker.co by next week and hope you will at least be able to see them and some elephant dollies on the workbench
after that I aim to do at least a pack a week
I would like to thank those people who did buy stuff and make kind comments about the figures.It all helps to keep the enthusiasm going
cheers

Great News RAJAHPAKDEE, I look forward to seeing your 18mm figures on the Baker Co. site. Please let us know here when that happens.

Alwaystough to have your booth located in the dead man's corner part of the vendor'sarea.

The first of the painted Garrison Miniatures Khmer are in the Gallery now. For some as yet unknown reason I haven't been able to put them into the actual catalogue – they won't upload for that.

Apologies if my colour scheme, etc, are totally wrong but it is difficult to find out the right colours to use.

Oh, and for comments re this range I have dug up this thread that I missed when it first appeared.

TMP link

I can't find a chariot horse either.

To that reference work list, I would add "A History of Siam" by W.A.R. Wood with the assistance of Prince Damrong. Written back in 1923 – 1924, Maj Gen Wood was H.M.'s Consul-General at Chiengmai, Thailand (then still called Siam). I have a copy of the 1994 edition, a reprint really of the original edition, by the Chalemnit Press and printed by Wachrin Publishing Co., Ltd., 350 Prasumen Road, Bangkok, 10200 and it was 120 Thai baht, which is just under $4.00 USD (US) these days and shipping ought not to add much to the total as it's a small volume. There are a number of chapters about the periods of interest, especially King Naresuan the Great (interestingly, called by his people "The Black Prince" in his youth), about whom another movie is being released by the same producer and director as "Legend of Suriothai". Perhaps it is already out in Thailand, dubbed in English one might be allowed to hope. Gen. Wood's work is not deep, but it covers the field from the Thai perspective and is written originally in English, a not inconsiderable benefit. One might look for other histories by Prince Damrong; many were translated into English in the '20's and '30's of the last century and he was an excellent historian. Oh, and yes, my wife is Thai and we have a 40-year marriage which is going just fine; thank you for asking. *smile*

I've uploaded some pictures (only a few at present) of the 15mm S.E.Asia range by Barry Carter, soon to be released.
Let us know what you think.They are on the 'workbench' page accessed from the frontpage of bakercompany.co.uk
Paul h.