"Hanoverian 1815 militia questions" Topic

Does anyone know what the internal organisation of these units was? Did they follow the British 10-company establishment with two flank companies, or something else? A assume they did have flank companies because I can't think why they'd rip the whole British uniform otherwise, but I have no info on whether the elites were two companies of ten, two of six continental-stylee or something else again.

Also, would Hanoverian militia have carried flags?

I've looked at Haythornthaite, Uniformes Cent Jours and the Waterloo Companion but this is not in there.

The Osprey says 8 companies with every 12th man a trained skirmishers i.e. no flank companies. This agrees with Nafziger's book 'Napoleon's German Enemies'. More details from the books can be provided if wished.
Previous thread on colours… TMP link

Thanks for that Billy. Does the Osprey mention any known uniform distinctions for the skirmish-trained guys? Did they form up two deep like the British army?

I can find no reference to any distinctions worn by 'sharpshooters'.
Assuming your 1815 question is Waterloo related I realise I have overlooked the 1815 reorganisation to 6 companies in a battalion and, on the outbreak of war in 1815, the disbanding of two companies with the men being allocated to the remaining four companies.
Sorry!
Neither book describes their tactical formations but with KGL NCOs and even some British officers being added in to these units it's fairly safe to assume they used the same drill as British infantry.

From: link

The Hanoverian army was reformed in 1813, and originally adopted the same eight company per battalion structure that the Kings German Legion had used prior to 1812. When however a further 30 battalions of Landwehr were formed in 1815 there was some difficulty in finding enough experienced officers. The solution was for these to be organised as 4 large administrative companies per battalion, most companies having one KGL officer and one KGL sergeant attached to supervise training. Tactically these landwehr battalions could then operate as 8 half-companies, emulating the drill of their regular colleagues. This concept mirrored that adopted for the Portuguese army in similar circumstances earlier.

Thanks, really helpful. So four companies of about 160 men apiece.

Something that puzzles me about the Cent Jours website is that he shows Hanoverian Landwehr who have blue facings as being in the stovepipe shako, while those with yellow facings all have the Belgic. Is that actually correct? I'd quite like a Hanoverian unit with stovepipes and yellow facings, but the officers and NCOs in Belgics and KGL blue, just to mark them out as a bit different.

4th, there's pretty much no pattern to Hanoverian Landwehr uniforms. It seems to have been a matter of what the British had in stock. You just have to go regiment by regiment until you find something you like. I've seen buff in stovepipe, but I don't remember yellow.

To clarify BillyNM a little, as I understand it, the KGL, having shed all the non-Hanoverians after the First Abdication, reorganized in 1815 into six-company battalions, with the surplus officers and NCOs detached to the Hanoverian Landwehr. (Wellington had wanted to draft Landwehr to bring the KGL battalions to full strength, but the Hanoverian officials had objected.) Doesn't directly affect Landwehr organization, but it adds color to the wargame unit.

I have seen Landwehr schutzen distinctives--green plume and a green lanyard of some sort--but I'm afraid mowing the lawn has to take precedence over the research this afternoon.

Thanks Robert. It seems the Osterode battalio had green facings and stovepipes. Those guys plus officers and NCOs with blue facings and Belgics may be just the ticket.

Was it the Hanoverians who had "yellow" backpacks too?

Was it the Hanoverians who had "yellow" backpacks too?

Yeah. At least so it's said in an old Zinnfigur pamphlet. There's also a reference to "yellow-brown" and I've seen an old Knoetel painting showing the Osnabruck Landwehr with black. I painted my Hanoverian regulars in yellow, mostly, but I'll stand by my earlier statement that 1813-15 Hanover is a mess. People see one plate or read one description and want to generalize, and it's not safe. There are very few things where you can confidently say "all Hanoverian soldiers (or all Hanoverian Landwehr) wore X." Lots of variation, and we don't know all of it. Probably never will.

I always meant to paint up an 1813-14 regiment with an officer in his 1803 uniform. Surely there was at least one. Won't get the chance now, I think.

As I understand it there were no flank companies.

I concur, OC. But they were working from an 1803 drill book in which there were schutzen in the infantry companies. The effect on table is sometimes very similar.

"yellow backpacks"

There is a letter in Siborne that says the Hanoverians painted their backpacks yellow. The Brigade was Militia so at least they had yellow.

The subject of Hanoverian flags is even more mysterious.
There is a very old article by Dr. Ottfried Neubecker that shows a few examples. For the Feld Bns the flags of Calenberg and Hoya still exist. See my previous post of 2018:
TMP link

The Dr. also has a drawing of what may be a common 'Kings' type colour in white with a horse emblem on one side and a 'GR' emblem on the other.
Also a flag of Ldwr Bn. Gifhorn – yellow with a white horse running in front of an oak tree.
Also a flag of Ldwr. Bn. Osnabruck – white with a horse emblem surrounded by a wreath and banners on one side, a religious figure with shield surrounded by a wreath and banners on the other side.
He also mentions that Feld-Bn Bremen had a flag and Lauenberg had two.
As I understand it these flags were made for the units by the cities they were raised in and don't follow any pattern. The only common features seem to be the white horse and possibly emblems based on the city heraldry.

4th Cuirassier

The standard Hanoverian Ldwr shako is usually shown as the stovepipe type with white cords, however Siborne's uniform chart says that about half the units wore the latter Belgic type. The chart is supposed to be based on letters from Hanoverian Officers, but has a few odd errors, so I don't know how accurate everything is.
The chart says that Ldwr. Bns. Quackenbruck, Hildesheim, Peine Luneberg, Osterode and Verden have the Belgic model, the rest in stovepipe.

Thanks Camcleod. I want my Hanoverian militia to look a bit shabby, which is why I like the idea of the NCO and officer figures in Belgics and blue, and the rank and file in something else. Stovepipes and green facings would be ideal but I could live with stovepipes and yellow / buff. Or, as I am contemplating three, to have each one different.

The "yellow" backpacks I assume would not be facings yellow but more buff-coloured paint yellow.

It seems I have some latitude over flags. Were there King's and battalion colours, do we know?

Note that the KGL Officers and NCOs were in addition to the BN's. Off & NCOs, so you could have some in green facings (or yellow) plus others in blue. And oddly enough the KGL Light BNs also contributed so you could have some in green uniforms among the red.
No King's colors per say, but the white one I mentioned above seems to be something like. Bn. colors for sure. In my Army I looked at the City coats of arms and gave my Ldwr. Bns. flags of red or blue with white horses and some with lions based on the coats of arms.

Good point re the officers – so different officers' rigs possible.

What you describe re the local coats of arms is what I have done with my yeomanry cavalry. I like cavalry guidons so my Surrey yeomanry will be getting a crimson flag with white horses of Hanover and laurel wreaths in opposite corners and the Surrey coat of arms in the middle. It looks rather nice even if they probably didn't have a guidon…

Just so long as no one paints colors of the Netherlands' "Orange Guard" with a big orange in the center and "Sunkist" written on the orange.

Yes, it's been done. Somewhat before my time, but I've spoken with eye-witnesses.

Robert, I like it. Very Old School…

You've given me an idea now. When I was a kid cinemas used to sell a very weak form of orange squash called Kia Ora. I think Robert's just solved the question of what flags any future Netherlands units should carry.

See discussion on "Late Hanoverian infantry headgear" at TMP link

I posted links to a number of articles from Zeitschrift für Heereskunde on the Hannoverian Army.