"Late Hanoverian infantry headgear" Topic

I'm aware several manufacturers produce figures for late war Hanoverian line infantry wearing a peaked forage cap with a yellow ribbon, encircling the bottom.

Given the Hanoverians basically wore British uniforms this seems a useful device to make them stand out from their genuine British counterparts but is it accurate?

In the field, did they wear these caps or the Belgic shako?

I won't have a problem if my Hanoverians have only officers with yellow tufts & yellow sashes and their distinctive flags to mark them out. I'll be hoping my "French" opponent might confuse them with a crack battalion of British infantry.

There is much discussion on this point. It seems the caps were the regular forage caps and the shako should have been worn. A number of well-known illustrations have shown this headgear as it is quite distinctive but a whole regiment deployed dressed like this would probably be unlikely.

Having said that, it is a useful way of distinguishing the units, and, as it is your army … why not?

Indeed much rejecting those caps.

Most recently;

TMP link

But if I can have a unit the size of the Gendarmes d'Elite de la Garde Imperiale avec three eagles (!) why not do what ever you want, as you say, to distinguish them?

Did you know they did not have flank companies? I did not!

Looking at the "!00 Days Mont St Jean" web site -- link -- shows that the seven Hanoverian line battalions wore either the "Belgic" or stovepipe shako with just a one battalion shown in the forage cap. What was interesting to me was that three of seven field battalions wore red uniforms, three wore green uniforms, and one was mixed (red for the center companies and green for the sharpshooters). The headgear was also divided with the three red-coated battalions wearing the "Belgic" shako, two of the green-coated battalions wearing stovepipe shakos while the third wore forage caps, and the 'mixed' battalion wearing stovepipe shakos.

That should help in distinguishing your Hanoverian units from both the British and KGL battalions.

Jim

Col Campbell, perhaps worth amplifying to point out that Hanover has an odd structure here. The "field" battalions are the regulars and many of them are lights--hence the green uniforms. Nominally, one field battalion was associated with three landwehr battalions in a paper regiment, though they weren't organized that way in the field. All should have four companies and a schutzen platoon, though usually the Landwehr battalions were larger than the field ones. If you want color, though, remember that the KGL battalions were reduced to six companies for the Hundred Days, and the surplus officers and NCOs farmed out to the landwehr. So you can do a perfectly proper Hanoverian landwehr battalion in stovepipe with blue, grass green or straw facings and add a KGL officer and NCO in Belgic shako. I think you could even get away with using KGL lights in rifle green.

But not the field cap, unless you're building the Kielmansegge Field Jaeger Corps. There are limits.

What a brilliant and authoritative answer.

Well done.

For our book about the uniforms of Wellington's allies at Waterloo (cf. link – the English version will be publishes soon) I made some research about the Hanoverian troops.

I made a table of all Hanoverian "Feldbataillone" which were at Waterloo with their uniform details and headgear (the sources were mostly older German articles) – so here are the results of my research:

Bremen => Belgic shako
Verden => Belgic shako
Hoya => Belgic shako
Osnabrück => Belgic shako
Lüneburg => Belgic shako
Lauenburg => Belgic shako
Calenberg => Belgic shako
Hildesheim => unknown
Grubenhagen => Stovepipe

The "Feldjäger" wore dark green field caps.

The "Landwehr" regiments wore a black stovepipe shako with brass fittings and white-red (later white-yellow) pompon.

So I hope you may find this information useful

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

P.S. I'll announce the English version of our 2nd volume about the Waterloo uniforms here, when it is available

Please be sure to do so. It will be very useful, for a major contributor to 1815, that is all too easily forgotten.

Siborne's uniform chart for the Hanoverians at Waterloo lists coat and facing colours plus shako type. See this blog:

link

The only one probably not correct is the Grubenhagen Light Bn. which other sources list as green coat with black facings.
Also Osnabruck (Duke of York's) is listed in red with blue facings. They had worn green in 1813 but had new British supplied uniforms by 1815.

Note that of the Feldbns. at Waterloo; Bremen, Verden and Osnabruck (Duke of York's) were Line – Grubenhagen & Luneburg were Light Bns.

Thanks for all the solid information: Col Campbell, Camcleod & especially NapStein. Your book, in English, will be tempting.

did anyone bother to read : The Correspondence of Sir Harry Clinton? There are lots of remarks about the Hanoverian units.

I've read volume one of Clinton's correspondence.
Unfortunately not much on Hanoverian dress, but he does confirm a few things about their sharpshooter 'companies'.

Clinton mentions a few times how slovenly dressed and equipped the British and Hanoverian units were and how they wore their shako in unsoldierly manner.

The Siborne chart is a valuable source BUT pay attention to the term "Porgugues" shako. As we may think about the more stovepipe shako worn by the Portuguese infantry.

But the new field battalions were mostly equipped with the Shakos of the KGL line infantry, i.e. the Belgic shako. In old Hanoverian reports and articles about the infantry they are mentioned as "Kaskett". One of the best sources is a small booklet written by the famous researcher of the Hanoverian army, Friedrich Schirmer, entitled "Hannoversche Neuformationen 1813/15" and published by "Die Zinnfigur". He made a lot of research before WW2 in archives and had access to lots of contemporary images.

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

I have a question about the uniform of the Feldbns. Osnabruck (Duke of York). Their are sites link
ans artists (Patrice Courcelle,..)that show a green uniform (because the former status of light inf) with white belts and fatigue caps.
I came across other sites and comments who contradicted this and claimed Siborne`s obsewrvations where correct. Any reliable/definitive material on this?
Regards

Potential useful articles in Zeitschrift für Heereskunde (only been able to check up to end of 1978 so far – will post anything additional later)

1931/Heft Nr. 32, S. 281, Schirmer, Friedrich: Die hannoverschen Neuformationen 1813-1815

1931/Heft Nr. 33, S. 294, Schirmer, Friedrich: Die hannoverschen Neuformationen 1813-1815

1931/Heft Nr. 34, S. 314, Schirmer, Friedrich: Die hannoverschen Neuformationen 1813-1815

1943/Heft Nr. 122, S. 30, Lünsmann, F.: Zur Uniform der hannover. Landwehr im Feldzuge 1815

1953/Heft Nr. 129, S. 24, Herrmann, Friedrich: Zeitgenössische Quellen zur Uniformierung hannoverscher Militärärzte 1815

1954/Heft Nr. 138, S. 77, Schäfer, Georg: Hannover 1813-1815: Hus.-Rgt. Prinz Regent

1955/Heft Nr. 142, S. 46, Herrmann, Friedrich: Neue Beiträge zur Uniformierungsgeschichte des hannoverschen Jägerkorps von Kielmannsegge und des Landwehr-Btls. Lüchow (Porzellanservice)

1957/Heft Nr. 152, S. 24, Schirmer, Friedrich: Die Landwehr im Rahmen der Armee des Königreichs
Hannover (1814-1820)

1957/Heft Nr. 153, S. 43, Schirmer, Friedrich: Die Landwehr im Rahmen der Armee des Königreichs
Hannover (1814-1820)

1959/Heft Nr. 163, S. 33, Herrmann, Friedrich: Hannover 1815. Uniformierung der Feld- und Landwehr-
Bataillone

1961/Heft Nr. 175, S. 54, Schäfer, Georg: Rote Uniform des Feldbtls. Grubenhagen 1813

1964/Heft Nr. 191, S. 11, Herrmann, Friedrich: Hannover. Kavallerie (Waterloo 1815, Traditionsträger
1866, 1914, 1939)

1965/Heft Nr. 198, S. 30, Herrmann, Friedrich: Hannoversche Infanterie (Waterloo 1815, Traditionsträger
1866, 1914, 1939)

Thank you to Prince of Essling,

I went to the site link to have a look, but as far as my German goes, I cannot find the older issues. Any suggestions howe to get hold of the articles you mention above?

Also came across a forum with exactly my question
link

Here also a reference to the site Zeitschrift für Heereskunde, but I cannot find a clear answer here (again, maybe because of my limited understanding of the German language).

Info on the Hanoverians at Waterloo is few and far between.
Feldbn. Osnabruck (Duke of York)is known to have been raised as a Light Bn. and wore the green uniform. There is a booklet by Ridder in the Gallica collection that shows this early uniform. Can't find it right now but as I recall the plate is labeled 1813-15 ?.
Then we have the Siborne info which was collected from surviving veterans and is assumed to be correct except for a few minor discrepancies. I first saw that uniform chart in an old Military Modelling publication from around 1977.
I wonder if anyone has gone through his correspondence to verify the info he used for his dioramas.
Don't think I've ever seen a verifiable plate of what Feldbn. Osnabruck (Duke of York) would have looked like at Waterloo. I did my 28mm version in red.

Schirmer, Friedrich: Die hannoverschen Neuformationen 1813-1815
link
link
link

Will check if I have the other useful articles from Zeitschrift für Heereskunde & post links as appropriate.

"Göhrde, Quatre-bras, Waterloo, Troupes hanovriennes. 1813-1815" Author : Aerts, Winand (1879-1960). no longer appears downloadable from Gallica but the images can be found at: link

Brilliant!
Thank you to Prince of Essling for this information.
It could be my lack of knowledge of the German language again, but I cannot find any references about the uniform of the Feldbns. Osnabruck (Duke of York). All other Feldbns are mentioned in the articles.
My question is which uniform did they wore during the 100 day campaign (1815). Red and style KGL line or green style Light infantry? Their are off course contradictional references on the internet.
Looking forward to find more info on this matter.
Regards

From Rawkins "THE ARMY OF HANOVER & THE KING'S GERMAN LEGION 1793-1815"

"Leichtes-Bataillon Osnabruck 1814
Nr.4 Feldbataillon ‘Herzog von York' 1814-1815

The Leichtes-Bataillon Osnabruck was raised in early 1814 by Hauptmann Heinrich von Anderten as a light infantry unit and briefly saw service at the blockade of Harburg in March. In June 1814 it was redesignated as line infantry and retitled Nr.4 Feldbataillon ‘Herzog von York' as the Feldbataillon of the Onsabrück Regiment Nr.4. In 1816 it was once more designated as light infantry. Very little is known of the uniform prior to late 1814 except that it was almost identical that worn by the Grubenhagen-Bataillon, a ‘stovepipe' shako decorated simply with a white metal buglehorn badge, black shako cords and a short green plume. The coat is believed to have been dark green with a single row of white metal buttons and black collar and pointed cuffs. The style of shoulder-strap is unclear either black straps with a black tuft or black wool roll epaulettes. Overall trousers were grey and all belting and equipment black leather.

With the transition to line infantry in June 1814 the Nr.4 Feldbataillon ‘Herzog von York' was ordered into the regulation line infantry uniform but it is unlikely that this was effected until early 1815 although Siborne clearly states that the new uniform was being worn at the Battle of Waterloo. The new 1814 uniform conformed in most details to that prescribed for the line infantry. The older shakos were replaced by the pattern 1812 false fronted shako, with brass badge, white shako cords and a black cockade on the left side surmounted by a short white over red plume. The coat was of the basic British pattern and was single breasted and closed with ten pewter buttons in five sets of two, each with a ‘double-headed' lace loop of white wool with a fine dark blue ‘worm' or thread through the length. The buttons were pewter and either flat or domed and stamped with the initials GR below a royal crown. The collar was dark blue trimmed with white tape at the upper, lower and leading edges and cuffs were squared and faced dark blue decorated with four vertical batons in pairs of battalion pattern lace with a button at the upper tip. The turnbacks and coat lining was white and the enlisted men had horizontal pockets with three points and two pairs of pewter buttons. There were two buttons and a triangle of battalion lace at the point where the coat seams joined above the vent, or ‘tommy' in the tails. The centre companies are described with dark blue shoulder-straps edged with white lace and with a white wool ‘tuft' at the outer tip. The strap could be either square edged with a pointed inner tip or more commonly bastion tipped. The Scharfschützen section may have had green plumes to the shako and red wing epaulettes as for British light companies. The overall trousers are given as regular mid-grey and the greatcoats would have followed the pattern worn by British infantry. According to Siborne's table the battalion's equipment was all whitened leather by 1815 and of standard British issue.

No details have been found for the individual battalion distinctions for officers and NCOs but these would have followed the regulations for light infantry battalions of the KGL in 1813 and the line infantry in 1815. Likewise there are no known details of the hornists and drummers distinctions but logically these would have been similar to those of the King's German Légion or British battalions."

1943/Heft Nr. 122, S. 30, Lünsmann, F.: Zur Uniform der hannover. Landwehr im Feldzuge 1815 link

1953/Heft Nr. 129, S. 24, Herrmann, Friedrich: Zeitgenössische Quellen zur Uniformierung hannoverscher Militärärzte 1815 link

1959/Heft Nr. 163, S. 33, Herrmann, Friedrich: Hannover 1815. Uniformierung der Feld- und Landwehr-
Bataillone link

@Prince of Essling,

Thank you again for a lot of material to go trough.
I found a file I saved years ago, with the English translation of the article 1959/Heft Nr. 163, S. 33, Herrmann, Friedrich: Hannover 1815. Uniformierung der Feld- und Landwehr-
Bataillone. For those that struggle with the German language (like myself);

Uniforms in the 1813-1815 Campaigns:

The topic of the Hanoverian uniforms in the campaigns of 1813-15 is detailed by a set of work, but still under no circumstances exhaustively treated. There are still a large number of questions remaining open, to clarify in particular the following remarks contribute.

Some time ago I received from Mr. Carman, Assistant Director to the Imperial War Museum in London, the copy of an unpublished manuscript of the British Captain Siborne, who in the years between 1830 and 1840 corresponded with participants of the campaign of 1815 for the publication in 1844 in London of the well known work "A History of the War in France and Belgium". Also, for the aforementioned manuscript, which contains data concerning the uniforms of the Hanoverian infantry at present the battle of Waterloo, statements of Hanoverian campaign participants are the basis.
In this respect there is a list, in which the main uniform characteristics are recorded for the campaign of 1815 of all of the infantry troops taking part of the Hanoverian army, in however roughly schematic form. I am hoping to post my rather poor translation of the Herrmann article, complete with the Siborne chart and his comments on it. Siborne's information came fom a letter from Captain C Muller and the original (in German) is in the British Library (Gareth Glover, in his list of as yet still unpublished Siborne papers lists at the back of his "Letters from Waterloo" lists it as Add Ms 34703 to 144).

Hanover 1815.
Concerning the uniforms of field and landwehr battalions by Friedrich Herrmann.
(In addition to picture fig. 4/1959 (in booklet 162)

If one considers this list, which is shown below in translation, with a critical oversight, thus the following:

1. On the whole these results correspond with the evidence, as far as they concern troop units, whose uniform admittedly was, in the past partially researched.

2. Significant deviations arise only for:

a) Field Battalion Grubenhagen. According to all existing documents the Battalion did not wear a red uniform with green facings, but a dark green Rifle uniform with black facings.
b) (Field)Jägerkorps. Here so far only a dark green garrison cap with light green band was known, not however the identified conical shako well known as headdress. In connection with this, the article "An unknown Hanoverian headgear from the time of the War of Liberation" by Dr. schack (Zeitschr. f. Hkde. NR. 139. November. 1954, S. 99 101) results due to this indication in the case of Siborne interesting new aspects, which will be described in a later article.
c) Landwehr Battalion Osterode. All sources evaluated so far show green, not the indicated blue facings.

Certainly, the list in the Siborne manuscript is very schematic and did not consider the variants and the differences, certainly existing within the battalions, between the soldier's and officer's uniforms. It is possible that the colour of leather accoutrements and trousers was not uniform. The reliability of the Siborne manuscript, upon which I am not able to pass a binding judgement, presupposes, as Siborne admits, that only the predominantly represented samples of its list were worn and that others, beside this were also worn, to us however become models which are not considered. That could possibly explain the arisen contradictions.
Herrmann vieuw on Sibourne's chart of Hanoverian uniforms does not disagree with Sibourne on the Field Bns headdress which in general was belgic shakos for all ranks of Field Bns, and "conical" shako for Field Bn Grubenhagen. Sibourne shows Field Bn Luneburg with Belgic Shako but an article by Richard Knotel in "Mitteilungen zur Geshichte der militarishen Tracht" of 1912 states they wore shakos of 2nd KGL Light Bn in Paris in 1815.
a) Field Battalion Grubenhagen. According to all existing documents the Battalion did not wear a red uniform with green facings, but a dark green Rifle uniform with black facings.
b) (Field)Jägerkorps. Here so far only a dark green garrison cap with light green band was known, not however the identified conical shako well known as headdress. In connection with this, the article "An unknown Hanoverian headgear from the time of the War of Liberation" by Dr. schack (Zeitschr. f. Hkde. NR. 139. November. 1954, S. 99 101) results due to this indication in the case of Siborne interesting new aspects, which will be described in a later article.
Fig. 2 shows a jacket already described by Mr. F. Schirmer in his work on the Hanoverian Army "Nec Aspera Terrent" where on Page 44 of Volume II it is mentioned briefly. The item of uniform is in the Fatherland Museum in Celle and is at present in the famous Waterloo showcase. The designation reads: "Feldbatallion Bremen Verden / This uniform was worn in the Battle of Waterloo / Rustmeisters Dante".
The jacket is of red cloth, collar and cuffs are similarly of black. The lace (5 pairs on both sides of the chest and two pairs on each of the basic colour coat tails) are of gold coloured metallic lace (not sure of what!). The brass buttons are moderately strongly curved and show under a crown the Coat of Arms badges of Bremen and Verden, i.e. crossed key and a cross. The lining is of white linen, turnbacks of white linen with black edging. The arrangement of the lace and buttons is shown by the Figures 2a and 2d, details of the button in Figure 2b. On the cuffs are four buttons each. The wings are of black cloth, black wool fringes covered with a chain of thin brass rings.
As previously mentioned, the wearer of this jacket is identified as a "Rustmeister". The Rustmeister (weapon master [Armourer Sergeant]) ranked in the Hanoverian Army at that time in junior staff behind the Sergeant Major. This position accounts for the mixture of elements of officer and soldier's uniform, i.e. the velvet badges and metallic lace on the one hand and the single-breasted jacket and the arrangement of the lace on the other hand. Also, the very modest decoration of the wings indicates the intermediate position of the wearer.
The jacket was allegedly worn at the battle of Waterloo, at which time, this battalion did not have any more the designation "Light or Field Battalion Bremen Verden", but "Field Battalion Bremen". The insignia on the buttons with the Coat of Arms badges of the districts of Bremen and Verden (key and cross) indicates that the item of uniform dates from before the beginning of 1815 when the re-naming took place, which should exclude the further use of the jacket in unchanged condition beyond this time. Certainly, one had to do more important things than to change the buttons to amend the change of the unit designation.
So far three different uniforms were well known for the light battalion Bremen Verden and/or field battalion Bremen for the years 1813 – 15, namely:
a) red with blue facings and dark blue pantaloons
b) red with black facings and dark blue pantaloons, and all companies wore the light infantry pattern epaulettes
c) green with black facings and dark blue pantaloons.

Packs were of the brown hide Austrian pattern with shoulder-strap for the Bremen battalions.
So far it has not been possible to succeed in clarifying which of these uniforms were worn by which sub units of the Bremen Battalion in the campaign of 1815. The information in the Siborne manuscript shows the fact that the red uniform with black facings was worn by most of the battalion. Also, the jacket of Dante, assuming the correctness of the allocation "worn at Waterloo" suggests the same interpretation. The dark green rifle clothing was possibly used by the sharpshooters of the battalion.

I lost some of the text because I cut and pasted it in document that Im putting together with all uniform issues.