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"Russian Flags, 1812." Topic


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21 Mar 2021 10:50 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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21 Mar 2021 10:50 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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Comments or corrections?

Archon6421 Mar 2021 9:31 p.m. PST

I am wanting to add flags to my Russian units. The flags I have bought have the "white" Regimental flag and one "colour" flag for each unit. My question is, how should they be positioned next to each other? My guess is the senior Regimental flag on the right and the colour flag on the left but I can find no definitive answer online. Does anyone have an answer and a source please?

SHaT198421 Mar 2021 9:47 p.m. PST

Go to the Redux thread and you'll find all you need.

In a nutshell, it is thought by some experts previously here the 'white' Emperors colour stood in the rear rank of the multi-rank flag party (to better protect it. And the coloured was the designated 'formation' flag as well.
At least that's how I read the summary of data provided over a decade or more of responses.
regards dave

Personal logo Artilleryman Supporting Member of TMP22 Mar 2021 7:18 a.m. PST

From my sources, the colour party deployed between the 3. and 4 center platoons (both when deployed and when in a column of platoons).The colour party would be formed as follows:

SSUPUSS
SSXXXSS
SSUPUSS

S = grenadier, fusilier or musketeer : 3 chosen men from each company in the battalion
U = under-officer (corporal) : 1 chosen man from each company in the battalion
P = podpraporshchik ("warrant officer" or perhaps "master sergeant" ) with the flag ( 2 chosen from among the 4 in the battalion)
X = empty place in the ranks.

Thus you can see that the colours were one behind the other not side by side as in other armies. I understood that the 'white' colour was in front but I am interested to see what other sources say.

Stoppage22 Mar 2021 11:37 a.m. PST

That redux thread is a very dangerous masterpiece indeed. Liable to get rapidly bogged down with 'this looks interesting', and so does this, and so on…

Tmp – Napoleonic Redux

Stoppage22 Mar 2021 11:48 a.m. PST

Reading through this:

TMP – Russian Colour Parties

Suggests that the senior battalion would have a coloured flag in the first rank, and the colonel's white flag in the third rank – or held back somewhere for rallying.

The third battalion (1812) would then have two coloured flags.


A question for earlier: Would the grenadier battalion be the senior? leaving the two musketeer/fusilier battalions with coloured flags only?

SHaT198422 Mar 2021 3:17 p.m. PST

>>That redux thread is a very dangerous masterpiece indeed.
I'll accept that with thanks….

>>and the colonel's white flag in the third rank
I thought thats what I'd memorised…. bit of a Bleeped text putting two standards on a single 2x2 base tho (30mmx40mm).

>>Would the grenadier battalion be the senior?
That's the way I read Sashas (usually) replies.
Since before 1812('11?) they were designated and marched as three, it wasn't a problem. After that even less.

[That's what makes 1800-1808 so interesting as the Russians split into mini-corps so often, detaching battalions hither and thither.]
I can't see that the white colour was ever ceded to a 2nd or 3rd battalion unless completely destroyed?

cheers
;-) d

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP23 Mar 2021 1:48 a.m. PST

Each regiment of the line infantry was given 6 banners 5 "colored" and one "white" (colonel). Two banners per battalion.

From the book Ulyanov I. "History of Russian troops. Regular infantry 1801-1855"

picture

Battalion square against cavalry (A),
company formation (in square) (B),
deployed battalion formation (B).

The battalion commander (2) sixteen paces from the first line of the formation.
In a combat position, the musicians (8) are located behind the first
platoon, drummers (9) and flutists (10) behind the banner group (11), major (3) and adjutant (4) in front of the drummers.

Formation of a platoon in a deployed formation of a battalion (D), a battalion square (D).
Companies in battalion squares (1), battalion commander (2), major (3), adjutant (4), captain (staff captain) (5), chief officers (6), non-commissioned officers (7), musicians ( 8), drummers (9), flutists (10), banner group (11), banner lines (12)

Cuprum2 Supporting Member of TMP23 Mar 2021 2:17 a.m. PST

From the manuscript of V.V. Zvyagintsov "Russian Army. Part IV. 1801-1825"

picture

1st battalion in deployed formation
The musicians are only in the first battalion.
10 steps ahead of the commander of the 2nd battalion is the chief of the regiment on horseback.
The intervals between battalions are 20 paces.

Legend:

picture

Beagle21 Oct 2021 4:40 p.m. PST

Anyone know if Russian division, corps and army commanders had personal standards or any other way to display their position on the battlefield? The image of Reynolds arriving at the front line at Gettysburg in the movie springs immediately to mind…

SHaT198421 Oct 2021 9:16 p.m. PST

I presume you're getting paid by the post now?
Three times a day….

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