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"finding ACW figures that fit next to Warlord "Epic"" Topic


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Wealdmaster26 Dec 2020 8:38 a.m. PST

I am going to try this system out as it has got me thinking many new ideas and the concept is something I like more and more. But, of course I cannot accept the lack of troop types and only one generic type of ACW infantry with no frock coats, shell jackets, packs, bedrolls, etc. So, I wonder which among the true 15mm acw ranges in existence might fit the best with the new Warlord Epic Battles ACW plastic figures?

I am not afraid of conversion attempts on these plastic sprues. A jewelers saw, green stuff, etc.

mildbill26 Dec 2020 8:40 a.m. PST

Maybe the old Heritage line?

rxpjks126 Dec 2020 8:45 a.m. PST

Use Kallistra 12mm. They are a perfect match. If you do a search on the net, someone did a size comparison and they are super close.

Wackmole9 Supporting Member of TMP26 Dec 2020 8:53 a.m. PST

original Stone mountain acw are smallish 15mm

JimDuncanUK26 Dec 2020 9:55 a.m. PST

Kallistra are pretty close, a bit chunkier.

I would file their bases down a bit too.

Look at:

TMP link

and

TMP link

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP26 Dec 2020 12:29 p.m. PST

This may sound harsh, but whenever I see a miniatures game whose figures are purposely designed to be incompatible with other lines, I hope the project fails.

RittervonBek26 Dec 2020 1:06 p.m. PST

The OFM has hit the nail on the head. It's hard enough varying sources of compatible figures without a good idea like this coming along and seeming to deliberately misfire.

JimDuncanUK26 Dec 2020 1:47 p.m. PST

We'll see where they are in a years time.

Mister Tibbles26 Dec 2020 3:17 p.m. PST

I haven't done ACW in many years. On each stand, it looks like a large mix of kepi, slouch, and some Hardee hats for the Union? Isn't that a bit odd?

William Warner26 Dec 2020 3:30 p.m. PST

The hats are perfect Federals in the Western theater.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP26 Dec 2020 3:42 p.m. PST

While I dont want anyone to fail – I would prefer not to have 54 options for a period from 1MM to 54MM.

Well sculpted figures are always welcome

Cleburne186326 Dec 2020 4:02 p.m. PST

I can't get excited about the line. Not so much the unique scale. If it works and the company makes money, more power to them. No, I don't like the accuracy. Their is little or no difference between the Union and Confederate units. There are no shell jacket that I can see, or very few. So they are all Union soldiers. The ones in hats make great Union soldiers in the Western theater.
I get my enjoyment from painting accurate miniatures and uniforms. I can do that with these miniatures.
I know there are people that just want to get minis on the table and game. That's legitimate and I have nothing against that. Its just not for me. So I'll pass.

JSchutt26 Dec 2020 4:45 p.m. PST

"Purposefully incompatible" is a recipe for disaster disregarding potential sales revenue for some ignominious purpose… little understood by the consuming public. A marketing conundrum. 15mm figures would have inspired me to invest. I suppose the peanut gallery could claim they were close enough to 15's…..

Cleburne186326 Dec 2020 7:46 p.m. PST

Oops. My post should read "I can't do that with these miniatures."

Wealdmaster26 Dec 2020 8:09 p.m. PST

This morning, a video was released by Warlord in which they answer questions related to this Epic release. It was nice, but not that helpful actually.

I sort of see their idea now, but still, my main gripe is the large box set. They are charging well over 200 US for this and there simply isn't enough content. Somewhere between 2 and 3 thousand infantry. That is too much infantry with not much else. The books, buildings, etc are less important and a sort of consolation prize to what we all care about which is minis. What about a mix of troops? Cavalry, or at least some more variety in the infantry that if not the coats/kit/gear, at least gets the hats right. When you make miniature figures of any ilk the human eye recognizes them by the headgear. Just a basic principle of art and design. Still I really do wish them well as the hobby needs this. It is actually a possible way to invigorate the dwindling ranks of historical gamers if it works. Get the focus off of 28mm skirmish and onto how and why armies moved around the countryside.

Cerdic27 Dec 2020 3:35 a.m. PST

JimDuncanUK – seems that nobody heard you!

To reiterate…THEY ARE COMPATIBLE WITH KALLISTRA 12MM!!!!!

Munster27 Dec 2020 4:44 a.m. PST

A chap in france is doing some 3D printable STL's that match (Eskice is the handle he uses)

Wealdmaster27 Dec 2020 7:16 a.m. PST

I bet this range by Warlord will open up a hive of activity of digital sculptors that then print a sort of ACW auxiliary range of figures for their own needs and that of their friends.

d effinger27 Dec 2020 2:46 p.m. PST

Cleburne1863,

Completely agree!!!!!! The are pretty horrible for accuracy. Alarmingly so. Why do companies just do 'what everyone else does'? Open a BOOK and do some research! Amazingly stupid.

McWong7327 Dec 2020 2:54 p.m. PST

Agree with Cleburne too. I held off purchasing for that reason, I've no problems with scale etc, but lack of accuracy is a show stopper.

Cleburne186327 Dec 2020 2:59 p.m. PST

I mean, they could have just done one strip with hats and shell jackets, and one strip with forage caps and sack coats. Badabing badaboom, fairly accurate Union and Confederate strips at their most basic.

Albino Squirrel27 Dec 2020 6:40 p.m. PST

Yeah, the scale doesn't bother me. Lots of different scales out there. But having identical units for both sides, which don't look right for either, eliminates any interest I would have had in this. It's too bad really, because I think doing plastic strips in a small scale is a great idea, but this is a terrible implementation. But they took their design philosophy from an ad in the back of a 60 year old comic book. YouTube link

McWong7327 Dec 2020 9:34 p.m. PST

Still interested in seeing these changed BP rules.

SeattleGamer Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2020 12:50 a.m. PST

The generic infantry stands were a total turn-off for me. I like other Warlord products, but the historical inaccuracy which would have been way, way too easy to fix, is just a glaring admission that they don't care about this product line or its future.

Could have easily done what Cleburne suggested, and had some nice infantry stands for both sides. Make sure the cavalry also have some easy-to-see differences, and they might have had a better initial run.

As it is, I cannot even wish them success with this new line. Hate to see poor planning and corner-cutting rewarded.

Garryowen Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2020 7:03 a.m. PST

What will be scary for historical miniature wargaming is if this is really successful from a business standpoint. It will show that historical accuracy means nothing to a lot of wargamers.

I think Warlord putting these figures out shows their opinion of their customer base. It is a customer base that knows little and cares less.

I read one bit of advice from a wargame rules publisher for aspiring rules writers that ended with words to the effect, don't worry too much about the history.

Tom

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP28 Dec 2020 8:53 a.m. PST

Yes Tom, be very, very scared. :)))

Albino Squirrel28 Dec 2020 11:48 a.m. PST

They presumably only had the budget for two hard plastic sprues, one with bases and one with figures. The rest of the line is going to be in their plastic/resin stuff. So they would have needed the sprue to be half union and half confederate in that case. Still, that wouldn't have been much of a problem. Since it's a totally new scale, someone starting out in this would either need to make up both sides or know someone who is doing the other side, so they could trade off.

Fred Mills28 Dec 2020 12:13 p.m. PST

A very interesting concept, and cleverly packaged, but a box of 2,000+ figures that complement no other type I own, unless as legions of bantams? That alone would be enough for me to pass.

But I also listened to the interview link kindly provided by 'Albino Squirrel' above, which really turned me off. The creator says that uniforms in the period were essentially the same, and that such differences as did exist were minor, when considered in 13.5mm, which is the actual scale of the miniature. I guess all those history-focussed, detail-oriented 15/18mm manufacturers out there, not to mention those who make equally fine 10/12mm lines, have all been wasting their time? Holy cow, what a swipe at Warlord's professional peers, not to mention those for whom kepis or forage caps, shell jackets to frock coats are somewhat of a deal.

Regardless, I wish all makers well.

But I will continue to support those who take the time to sculpt figures accurately and with attention to historical detail, and who respect rather more than Warlord seems to have in this instance gamers' concerns about and interest in such things.

Wealdmaster28 Dec 2020 1:53 p.m. PST

I can see validity in many of the points made in this thread. We should be concerned with historical accuracy to as much of a degree as is valid given the small size of the figures. Yes, the younger market, or fantasy gamer crossover they are partially aiming this at doesn't care as much for the history – yet. I was the same way as a 16 year old. I would paint any old plastic figure from the ESCI/ERTL 1/72nd range with any color I wanted because I thought it was close enough and I didn't have the twenty dollars to get the box I needed to play, etc. Then as I got older, I started to appreciate the details and subtleties more. Consequently, I became more particular, etc. Having been around these Warlord guys as well as folks from Games Workshop who sort of fly closely together at conventions like Adepticon, I can see the world in which they operate. I don't agree with everything they do, but I can also respect their power to bring a larger audience into the room of historical gaming, a room which at the moment is slowly emptying out and in need of new faces.

RudyNelson30 Dec 2020 6:59 p.m. PST

I will stick to fielding the 10mm Good Ground range.

JimDuncanUK31 Dec 2020 6:36 a.m. PST

Warlord Games Epic ACW Gunners versus Kallistra ACW Gunners

link

picture

Wealdmaster31 Dec 2020 12:09 p.m. PST

Nice photo, they are pretty close, if I'm not mistaken the Kallistra are a bit smaller?

JimDuncanUK31 Dec 2020 2:23 p.m. PST

Nice photo, they are pretty close, if I'm not mistaken the Kallistra are a bit smaller?

There's a smidgen in it.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP03 Jan 2021 6:45 a.m. PST

When comparing figure sizes it's good to remember that real people come in different sizes, too :) Put a 5'-6" person next to a 6'-6" person and it will look like a true 15mm figure next to an 18mm figure :)

Cleburne186303 Jan 2021 7:25 a.m. PST

Yes, but their equipment and gear would have to be the same size as well.

Eumelus Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2021 6:12 p.m. PST

Here's an absolutely brilliant video by a chap who's actually integrated Kallistra figures with the Warlord strips in the same unit, to very good effect (it certainly helps that his painting skills are first-rate).

YouTube link

Well done, Unclecthulu!

General Kirchner13 Jan 2021 5:10 p.m. PST

Thanks Eumelus, very helpful link, i have been debating whether or not to do something similar, as i feel 5 stands per regiment is so much frontage!

trying to see how it all works.

part of me feels like its more true to playing black powder than 28mm are.

Mako2303 May 2021 7:30 a.m. PST

I use Kallistra, As Warlords boxed sets other than the base set are so expensive Kallistra's fit in just fine and roughly the same scale…

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