"On the matter of illiteracy and the Grammar Police" Topic

I was recently accused of being illiterate. I created a thread here on TMP erroneously using an apostrophe to form a plural.

You can find the thread here: TMP link

As a result of that thread I suffered a slanderous personal attack here:
TMP link

In the original thread I used an apostrophe to form a plural "Iraqi's" that should have been formed as "Iraqis". Winston was right that I formed the plural incorrectly. I being rather irritated responded to him that "I dont care". In response, in one fell swoop and a new thread, Winston launched a not so subtle personal attack on me, started a flame war, and bullied. This type of behavior is common with the self-appointed Grammar Police on TMP who I contend exhibit behavior that is rude, cowardly, and bullying.

Winston told me he thought I was rude and perhaps I was. A colleague and mentor of mine used to remind me that "Words are like bullets and you can never get them back." So true and I definitely would have been better served by acting like a duck in the rain. Withstanding that I may have been rude, Winston proceeded to create an insulting thread essentially referring to me as an illiterate. I am not illiterate, of course, because I can read and write and Winston used the broadest definition of the word in his attack.

One could say, that in this instance, I was illiterate of correctly making Iraqis plural by using an apostrophe when it was not supposed to. It's something about words that end with "i" that seem odd to me and it is done at a subconscious level. I said "I dont care" as a sarcastic response which seemed rude to him. What I truly don't care about are the constant remarks from folks that hold their mastery of the English language high above others as some sort of scepter. I also don't care for the inability to correct titles on threads at TMP. In Winston's message he said I was rude and I surmise that because I don't hold the same level of reverence for the English language as him that he launched the scathing personal attack. In his hubris he fails to see the irony of his rudeness and his illiteracy. His illiteracy of common decency, forgiveness of mistakes, and failing to engage in a friendly manner on miniatures. Winston is not alone in this type of behavior. Also, he also may be illiterate of the meaning of illiterate when using it to besmirch people.

These types of attacks along with the regular pointing out of mistakes made by lots of TMP posters are cowardly. They typically start out as a quick snip about how a poster made a grammatical error. They tend to be errors in the thread titles but I've witnessed it regarding the body of a topic as well. I think it is cowardly because I know that this would rarely happen in face to face interaction. Can you imagine someone calling out their colleagues during a business meeting about a mistake made in a report? You would likely be perceived as rude and this would erode teamwork and trust. No one would want to ally or collaborate with you.

It is curious that these attacks don't usually occur when people use very bad grammar in the body of their posts. I've seen some terrible stuff, some of it cringe worthy, but it's not my place to point it out. If I felt strongly enough I'd send someone a private message instead of arrogantly pointing it out for all to see.

Somehow the facelessness of the internet gives these Grammar Police the cover they need to jump out, snipe, then retreat like an insurgent. They usually never chime in again on that thread. Often times there is a second person that will jump in next and point out another error. They display the most cowardly behavior. Not having the courage to launch the initial attack themselves the second sniper uses the cover of the first attack to strike again. Tactics unwelcome on a collaborative hobby forum.

Not only is this type of behavior rude and cowardly it is a form of bullying. The Grammar Police hold themselves high as righteous defenders of the English language while contemptibly demeaning those who are not as skilled as them with it. A bully is rude by nature and often insecure hence their cowardice. They also try to set up situations where they can achieve their goals by fait accompli. They hope your silence will be acceptance. Some may say simply stifle those who you cannot stand but I'm generally able to ignore tomfoolery if no harm is being done or I am not being attacked, such as I was. I believe in free speech, accept the ramifications of speaking out, and can even tolerate the court jester for even the fool sometimes has words of wisdom.

Winston suggested I take it up with The Editor if I didn't like what he did. He messaged me "try to let stupid little things on da interwebs upset you." I am sure he meant to say "try not to…" but he made a mistake. "da interwebs" what the heck is that? I guess the standard of correct grammar and mistake free composition is hypocrisy and does not apply to personal correspondence for him.

What Winston did was a violation of easily 3 or more of the forum rules, but I wouldn't report him. I would never acquiesce to his suggestion and allow him to annex my enjoyment of interacting with the rest of the supportive TMP folks. My name is not Neville and I would never appease him. It would only embolden him. He has said it himself, why would a mere timeout be a deterrent anyone? I will never stand idle whilst under attack, and like I am not Chamberlain, I am not some ill-conceived naive foreign policy that would let proxies conduct the battles that I need to fight.

Grammar Police, your behavior is unwelcome. Take it to The Lounge. Start a thread of most egregious grammar violations of the day. Stop making it personal; check your ego and pride. Your behavior is rude, cowardly, and resembles bullying.

Disclaimer: The above post has been spell checked, grammar checked, and proofread by human and automated systems that are less than 100% efficient. Your reading of this post and any further posting by you constitutes your acceptance of all errors omissions relating to use of the English language. In addition, in reading and commenting on this post, you agree to hold harmless the author of all errors and omissions of the use of the English language.

Sadly, some animals are more equal than others.

The "person" you are talking about has a long history of purposely disrupting the forum and otherwise blatantly breaking the clearly stated rules. He's even been banned and then let back in after he whined about it. (letting banees return for any reason is always a bad idea. A few might take it as a wake up call and mend their ways. But most are just going to see it as a sign of weakness and double down their bad behavior) But our host simply turns a blind eye to just about everything he does.

I sometimes wonder if he "has something" on Armintrout in order to give him immunity when it comes to being taken to task for his actions.

Watch. He'll be in here running his mouth and spouting off more nonsense in a short time. But of course nothing will be done about him.

Yup. Some animals are simply more equal than others. Sorry you had to learn about that the hard way….

Can you imagine someone calling out their colleagues during a business meeting about a mistake made in a report?

If the purpose of the meeting was to review the document then most definitely yes. Happens all the time where I work and yes, I have been the victim of criticism myself.

I wish all I had to worry about was grammar. Somehow that doesn't sound right.

Lighten up, .

Your memory of the facts and my memory of the facts are oddly at variance.

Wow, I just read the source of your complaint and I'm thinking no big deal. But this might get you some attention.

I sometimes wonder if he "has something" on Armintrout in order to give him immunity when it comes to being taken to task for his actions.

Mock it all you want, Bill.

But the fact remains that you treat this clown with kids gloves and allow him to get away with murder. Want proof? You snipped his name calling on this very thread, but did not DH him for "personal attacks". That is the sort of thing happens…all….the…time.

Is it any wonder I speculate that he might have something on you? I mean seriously, are you two both Masons and at some point he flashed the "distress signal" at you or something? ;-) That's about all I can come up with as to your otherwise inexplicable behavior when it comes to him.

Some animals are more equal than others.

Edit:
Wow.
Bill "snips" his name calling and then he just posts a link below to a Youtube video saying the same thing. Talk about brazen. You going to do something about him, Armintrout?

Of course not…..

Interesting conspiracy theory.
YouTube link

@privateSnafu
Your post has moved me beyond the point of tears.
While I may still consider you a cherished acquaintance,
I can no longer consider you a friend.
Apostrophe abuse has run rampant on the internet and it must stop!

THE WAY

To every man there openeth
A way and ways and a way;
And the high soul treads the high way,
And the low soul gropes the low;
And in between on the misty flats
The rest drift to and fro;
But to every man there openeth
A high way and a low;
And every man decideth
The way his soul should go.

And…your point is?

"To err is human to forgive is divine."

Rightly said ironicon!

I would just say it's wise not to wrestle with pigs. In the end, you both get dirty, and you find the pig is enjoying it immensely.

Some people like to hide behind a keyboard, they think that they're clever saying things that they would be too scared to say in the real world.

@kyoteblue,
No fair trying to win first prize twice in a row for the same quote, but since you are the only contestant, this is what you've won.
Suddenly "there was a terrible baying sound outside, and nine enormous dogs, wearing brass-studded collars came bounding into the barn".
Run kyoteblue. Run!!!

I put random apostrophe's in all the time just to bug the spelling nazi's.

You worry too much about the opinion of others (especially on the Internet)

Another example of two people obfuscating(no, I don't remember what that means but it sounds cool and I can spell it)each other's(or others')post and dragging forum rules and OUR EDITOR THAT MUST BE OBEYED.
I respect Winston for his grammar expertise. When he corrects, I picture Kelsey Grammar(er?) doing it.
Private Snafu has done what we all have done, nothing more.
Correcting Grammar is not getting away with murder.

Are we not Other Forums?? We are TMP. Deal with it and move on. No need for Purges.

I definitely would have been better served by acting like a duck in the rain.

Bite your tongue, be like the duck, read about miniatures. You will be much happier!

I find it difficult to believe that the OP and his main acolyte are serious here.
There is just too much hissy fit faux outrage.
I just can't take them seriously.

How is quoting Stripes (as has been done a LOT by myriad people here on TMP) an insult or "brazen" in any way? And why was it snipped in the first place?

If having somebody say "Lighten up, Francis!" is that upsetting to you I can't imagine how you could possibly make it through the day. Talk about thin-skinned! Sheesh.

If you are feeling aggrieved or upset, why not buy a Gift Membership for some deserving TMPer?

It will brighten their day and yours.

(And mine.)

My goodness, Martin.
Is that the white supremacist flag of Ian Smith's Rhodesia I see?

Someone's campaigning for hall monitor on multiple postings!

@Winston Smith,

My goodness, Martin.
Is that the white supremacist flag of Ian Smith's Rhodesia I see?

I had to google a larger image and compare,but it is.

Thanks everyone for reading through my tediously long post. You've taken the time to read through so I figured I should return the courtesy of making replies. I won't and can't reply to everyone because some don't really require responses. For those of you that have expressed support for my position, thank you. I know that there are reasonable minds here on TMP.

I actually quite like it here, and for the most part, I try my best to mind my own business roaming my preferred passageways. I found my way here after participating on another forum where many Flames of War players participate. That's a good place, but the sentiment there was that the folks at TMP spoil the experience. I'm a skeptic by nature and decided to make my own decision. I slowly starting to roam the halls here. After some time I found it to be very much the opposite of what was said on the other forum. There were lots of great people willing to lend help with a question or leave an encouraging remark about my middling hobby skills. My experience was good enough that I even forked over the dough to be a supporting member.

I still hold that favorable opinion in the majority, but I have now experienced the downside of this membership through this ugly business. Someone suggested that I made the post to "…get some attention." Far from it! I will always push back against an attack. Rules be damned, this required a response.

I know that I stuck a chord and that Winston has already apologized as best as he is probably capable of making, here: TMP link

It fits in exactly with the second supporting piece of my thesis. He didn't have the courage to actually apologize so he started a different thread so it would appear unrelated and his bullying power base would not be diminished. He'll deny it and call it "hissy…faux outrage.", but he does it at such a base level that I don't think he even realizes it. The genius of his grammar skill doesn't extend beyond that.

For those of you that expressed a general sentiment of ‘ignore it' you are right and I thank you for reminding me. Let's not belabor that point too much, as I've acknowledged that particular failing of mine from the beginning. I thank you again, none the less, because I DO need to hear that, and I was hurt by what happened. Again, don't waste your time saying "get a thick skin". I have one and this attack bounced off it, now I am fighting back.

I consider the matter finished at this point though I may check in on the topic again. A few specific replies to follow.

@Martin H Wolverton

I wasn't aware of Winston's ‘history'. It's doesn't come as a surprise at this point. Feel free to consider me your acolyte in this matter.

As far as The Editor in Chief Bill goes: I suppose that Bill will, after some consideration, do whatever he feels necessary to preserve the integrity of his site, or he won't. It's his prerogative, I respect it. Admittedly, TMP is a bit mysterious. Bill's got an occasional sock puppet among others, and Winston has multiple personalities.

If the purpose of the meeting was to review the document then most definitely yes. Happens all the time where I work and yes, I have been the victim of criticism myself.

@MajorB

Agreed.

I did not paint the picture as nicely as I hoped. Imagine you and your colleagues are going to a meeting with clients. You've prepared the report and the outcome of the meeting could result in landing an important contract or retaining a lucrative new client. Once the meeting begins your colleagues starting pointing out non material errors in the presentation at the table in front of the clients.

One is never a victim of criticism. You either deserved it or you didn't. If given in the spirit of providing feedback and improvement it should be considered a gift. If meant to belittle you then…well, you know.

Lighten up, snip.

@Winston Smith

Resorting to vulgarity and profanity are we? Have I hit a tender spot? The truth can be blindingly searing and painful.

Good advice to "Lighten Up", I will make sure to do that with future responses to you.

Your memory of the facts and my memory of the facts are oddly at variance.

@Winston Smith

Age and infirmity degrade the mind and cause difficulty properly forming memories. You may want to discuss this further with your geriatrician.

Your feeble attempts to obfuscate the facts are pathetic and laughable.

Your post has moved me beyond the point of tears.
While I may still consider you a cherished acquaintance,
I can no longer consider you a friend.
Apostrophe abuse has run rampant on the internet and it must stop!

@RavenscraftCybernetics

I'm sorry we had a falling out, but I'm still glad we will be able to remain anonymous acquaintances. The distance the internet provides for us is foundational to our good rapport.

Call Peter Hain! A cricket boycott is only a matter of time.

And re the OP, accusation of illiteracy eh? Ouch. is there a wrist band I can buy?

Bill's got an occasional sock puppet…

Name and shame?

Private Snafu, I'm with you, dude! Not cool.

Lighten up John, you didn't like it when Bill had public fun at your expense.

Ranscraft and Nazrat, if you guys were really hard-core, you wouldn't even have finished reading the OP. Your posts betray you, now come over here and get the big group hug you need, you sensitive guys!!!

I have no problem with Private Snafu at all and thought his post was well written and reasonable. My post was directed to Martin, who seems to have an almost obsessive beef with John.

I'll take that hug anyway, though… 8)=

"@Winston Smith

Resorting to vulgarity and profanity are we? Have I hit a tender spot? The truth can be blindingly searing and painful."

Um, John never cursed. He wrote, "Lighten up, Francis." and for some odd reason Bill elected to snip it. I have never in all my years on TMP seen John the OFM (or Winston from his work email) write any curse words of any sort.

Guys … I agree with most of what you have said … but stop wasting your time. Winston/OFM has again posted some things on another thread if I or some of you had said it we would Deleted if not DH'd. I brought this to Bill's attention and he ignored me. No surprise really.

Here's just one of Mr. Smith's posts that IMO and others was completely unwarranted.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP 06 Mar 2016 8:38 p.m. PST

For crying out loud. Your feelings were hurt for 24 hours before anyone did anything about it. You must have hit the complaint button 500 times, and still nobody took every single one of the Bad Man's posts down.
That certainly qualifies as a First World Problem.

What the heck do you expect? 24/7 monitoring of every single post?
Do the math. It's the weekend.
Oh right. Every time somebody hits the complaint button a loud siren goes off. Drop everything! A TMPer is upset!
The crack team of editors certainly let you down.

Airborne, huh? I thought they were tough.

Now I completely expect a post by Mr. Smith to reply in a similar snarky, rude, obnoxious, demeaning, berating, etc., manner. It's his standard operating procedure/MO. And again Bill is of little help. I wouldn't be surprised if this post was Deleted and/or I DH'd. Bill's editing is nothing if not predictably unpredictable and fickle. I get it … But I'm not going to allow what appears to be a very rude, bitter, cyber-curmudgeon bully me and others and not say anything about. Which as I said, my comments may be deleted by Bill.

What happened to manners, common respect, courtesy, etc. ? Not being insulting, vitriolic, derisive, etc., for no other reason than disagreeing with others opinions, etc. ?

Go ahead Mr. Smith, we all know what your reply will be and Bill will continue to turn a blind eye. I bet money of it …
Or another trip to the DH for me …

I find it difficult to believe that the OP and his main acolyte are serious here.
There is just too much hissy fit faux outrage.
I just can't take them seriously

Hmmmm.
I got a DH stay about this time last year for using that exact phrase: "faux outrage".

I wonder if Bill will DH John/Winston for doing the exact same thing?
Ha! Who am I kidding? We all know that is not going to happen.
Need any more proof of a double standard in regards to this guy?

As much as I hate to lower myself to actually addressing him directly, this has to be said….

Is that the white supremacist flag of Ian Smith's Rhodesia I see?

When you express the same faux outrage over the fact that there at least two members who use rebel battle flags in their avatars then you might have a point. Until then, you are just making silly personal attacks….and factually incorrect ones at that.

See, now I have used the phrase "faux outrage" again. By rights that should land both John/Winston and I in the DH. It ought to be interesting to see what happens. I've even pushed the report button on my own post.

Come on Bill! Come show us that you do not treat some members different than others!

Apologies you big hugable Nazrat.

Spelling is becoming a lost art. Anything with over four letters is a BIG word now.

"Apologies you big hugable Nazrat."

I am outraged, OUTRAGED, I say, for being called "big". Bill should swoop in and salve my oh-so-delicate feelings for this completely innocuous "insult" by Dawghousing EVERYONE. It's the only way to be sure. 8)=

It's past the hour time limit for editing a post. So I'm going to have to post again to this thread rather than editing my above post. So I apologize for posting about this again.

Bill, in the below thread you explain why you considered "faux outrage" to be a violation of the "personal attack" rule and used it to justify DHing me.
TMP link

Both John/Winston and I have accused each other of "faux outrage" and I have pushed the button reporting both of us for the same rules violation. So if you are at all consistent in your moderation of the forum you need to send us both to the DH. Are you going to do that now? Or are you going continue to protect this guy and show a blatant double standard were he is concerned?

I'm waiting. I even have my bib tied on so I can chow down on the puppy chow when I get to the DH!

Well, if you're that convinced of the need to be DH'd, you could always stifle the editor. I believe that has a similar effect. It would also be a unilateral act to echo that of Rhodesia.

Indeed, UDI era apparently. It's quite a pretty flag; interesting colour scheme.

Martin, did you do your Gift Membership yet? If so, I haven't received it…