"Perponcher OB in Waterloo Campaign" Topic

Aidkins gives command of the 2nd Brigade to Prince Bernard of Saxe-Weimar.
2nd Nassau – Maj. Sattler
Regt of Orange – Col. the Duke of Saxe Weimar.

I have searched the archives for an old discussion of this, but couldn't find it.

Aidkins further assigns the 1st bn of 2nd Nassau to CAPTAIN Busgen, indicating that he was promoted to bn command when the bn commander was promoted to regtl command – that being MAJOR Sattler. The 2nd and 3rd bns are also commanded by majors.

I drew from that that Prince Bernard was promoted to brig command from his original regimental command of 2nd Nassau. When I painted the figure of Prince Bernard, I painted him as a Nassau officer – in GREEN.

However, as I recall, I got it wrong. Prince Bernard was actually promoted to brig command from the regimental command of the Regiment of Orange, and should therefore be wearing blue. So Aidkins must be wrong about something, because he has a col commanding the Regiment of Orange. I would not expect that if the original regimental commander was promoted to brigade command.

Can anybody straighten me out on this? I know the original brigade commander retired due to illness or injury before the campaign kicked off. I just want confirmation as to who was promoted to what.

Mike Robinson's book, "The Battle of Quatre Bras: 1815" has Prince Bernard as commander of Nassau-Orange (Oranien-Nassau), the 28th Regiment of the Kingdom of Holland.

Commander of 2nd Brigade was Colonel von Godecke, who was kicked by a horse on the morning of the 15th and had his leg broken.

Maj Sattler was commander of 2nd Nassau in place of Lt Col von Umbusch, who was "absent."

Ed

So when Prince Bernard got promoted to brigade command, he just happened to have a colonel handy to take over 28th regiment.

Meanwhile, the MUCH larger 2nd Nassau was commanded by a major, with its first bn commanded by a captain.

Funny how chain of command works. Thanks for the info. I knew it was something crazy like that.

One more point, if I may.

When Godecke was kicked by his horse, Prince Bernard succeeded to brigade command. Who took over command of the Regiment of Orange?

My book is not handy, but I think it was Lt Col Dressel, the commander of I/Orange Nassau.

Colonel von Goedecke was kicked against his shin about a week before the opening of hostilities. As there semed no pressing urgency to have him replaced immediately, no one else took over command. Only when Sachsen-Weimar arrived at Quatre Bras, did everyone realise the brigade was without a commander.
The 28th Orange-Nassau Rgt. was indeed taken over by the next subordinate, Lt.-Col. Dressel.

So there is a mistake on Aidkins' OB. He has two officers named Saxe-Weimar, one commanding the brigade and the other commanding the Regiment of Orange.

Interesting, as well, that Prince Bernard, Duke of Saxe-Weimar, was originally subordinate to Col von Goedecke.

Odd to compare that situation to I Corps Command, where a 24-year-old Prince of Orange commanded the entire corps.

It's a mistake, yes.

Commander of 2nd Brigade was Colonel von Godecke, who was kicked by a horse on the morning of the 15th and had his leg broken.

Maj Sattler was commander of 2nd Nassau in place of Lt Col von Umbusch, who was "absent."

IIRC Colonel Godecke had his shin broken on the morning of the 14th June (i.e. the day before the invasion began) – he had gone to a special parade at Div HQ or somewhere and was kicked by his ADC's or such's horse.

Lt. Col. von Umbusch (of 2nd Nassau-Usingen) was away at a wedding IIRC, or at least leave of some sort (family issue/sickness) hence why Major Sattler basically took command once hostilities got underway.

As mentioned both the 2nd (Nassau) Brigade and the 2nd Nassau-Usingen Regiment were operating without Commanders at the out-break, as it was expected in both cases there was plenty of time to announce a replacement (for the former) and for the Colonel to return (the latter). As fate would have it the stand-ins (below) both proved very dynamic and pro-active and tactically competent so it worked out for the good.

Both Sattler and Prince Bernhard issued a lot of orders on their own initiative, and were responsible for the Brigade rallying at Quatre Bras so promptly – the actual orders to do so from Perponcher-Sedlinitsky and Major-General Constant Rebecque only arriving late on the 15th after the Brigade had already been at (or on it's way to) Frasnes and Quatre-Bras for several hours and the I/2nd Nassau-Usingen had seen a lot of action. The process was probalby helped by the clear well stated standing orders from Rebecque and Perponcher and staff about standing to every morning and precisely where the Bde was to rally, etc… unlike some of Wellington's orders. See Mike Robinson's book mentioned above for more detail…

Incidentally I'm just in the process of basing up my (28mm) units for both Regiments and just posted some pics on my blog for those who may be interested in some eye candy:

2nd Nassau-Usingen Regiment

28th Oranien-Nassau Regiment

It's a mistake, yes.

He probalby just got confused by the fact Prince Bernhard was both Colonel of the 28th Oranien-Nassau Regiment and the acting Brigade Commander.

Although Prince Bernhard of Saxe-Weimar and the Duke of Saxe-Weimar are two different people… The latter being the former's uncle or such IIRC, and ruler of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach since 1808 (and perhaps was "honorary" Colonel of the Regiment – like the Queen or King is for British Cavalry units) – so it may not be incorrect?

Mycenius,

Very nice figures.

Mycenius

Good point. I've seen other OOB's with the overall commander of a division or brigade, also being listed as commander of a regiment or section of the division or brigade. So Adkin's may have it right about Prince Carl Bernhard Saxe-Weimar, after all?

G,

No. Once Bernard was acting brigade co, the senior battalion co became acting regimental co.

Thanks Widowson – and yeah, I agree W on the command thing, Gaz I don't think its a case he got listed twice – plus Adkin's Waterloo Companion has some minor errors in it unfortunately (or at least contestable facts or disputable ones) – note he makes a point in the introduction I think to stress where there is conflict he's simply chosen what 'he' thinks is the most likely correct info where there is not overwhelming support for one view over another (e.g. the listing of the artillery details for the 2nd Dutch-Belgian Division & the Brunswick troops)…

Anyway – if it specifically says "Duke" of Saxe-Weimar it's a different person (NOT Prince Bernhard) and I suspect it's because the head of state may have been the honorary Colonel as mentioend above – so it might just be an unintentional typo that carried over the name of the not-present Colonel in Chief?

Karl (Charles) Augustus, Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach 1758-1828
link
Charles Augustus was Duke of Saxe-Weimar until 1809, then Duke of the merged Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach until 1815, then Grand Duke of the latter from 1815 (when the Congress of Vienna extended it's territory) until his death in 1828.

Prince Bernhard of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach (1792–1862)
link
Bernhard did not succeed his father above to the throne of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach because the hereditary title went to Charles Frederick his older brother who became Duke in 1828. Prince Bernhard's Grand-Daughter later married Charles Frederick's Great-Grandson (I think – something like her cousin 4 times removed or such?) to become part of the hereditary line again!

Anyway as you can see two distinctly different people. And as Widowson's original post references the "Duke" the 'honorary Colonel' thing and similar names would be my assumption for the confusion (but I keep forgetting to check when I am at home and have those books handy).

Guys, this is not correct.
The Orange-Nassau (or in Dutch Oranje-Nasau) Regiment was an original Dutch unit in the Dutch arm since 1814, made up of hired troops from Nassau. The father of Bernhard von Sachsen-Weimar was not in anyway related to the regiment, for example as honorary colonel.
The mistake is often made as Berhard is alternativele referred to as a duke or a prince. Also in Dutch literature. Hence the undertandable mistake made in the OOB of Adkin's book.
So don't make it more complex than necessary :-)

Ahh, good point Cartman – good to know…

BTW – Widowson there's a fairly good OOB listing all the unit commanders here as well: Anglo-Allied Army in Flanders and France – 1815

Mycenius/Cartman

Looks like it is thanks all round for this info and update. To be honest, I'm not that up on the 1815 campaign or OOB's, so it looks like there will plenty of research 'fun' when I come around to researching the 1815 camapign.

My research, at the moment, apart from a few hard to resist exceptions, is anniversary based, in that I've been researching 1811 and will soon be researching 1812. But I do hope there will be more accurate 1815 OOB's available by 2015, when I hope to be researching the 1815 campaign in more detail, and of course, more exciting and accurate titles.

But I do hope there will be more accurate 1815 OOB's available by 2015…

Erwin Muilwijk is close to publishing his works on the Dutch-Belgian (& Nassau Troops under Dutch Command) forces in the Hundred Days and has some useful stuff on his website already. First of his 4 books is due end of this year hopefully and an additional one each year thereafter…

Also I presume you've seen the other recent thread that Widowson started: Perponcher OB in Waterloo Campaign

Mycenius

Thanks for that. I have a feeling we might end up spoilt for choice, concerning the 1815 titles that will, no doubt become available. It'll make a nice change though.

Haha, that Erwin dude is me :-)

Haha, that Erwin dude is me :-)

Sneaky Erwin! Errr, that Moniker's not a Southpark related one is it…?

Typo in my last post too – I meant to post a link to Will these Perry Minis do for Quatre Bras? thread – Not back to this same thread!