"Other historical SF?" Topic

The other day I saw a lithograph in a book which showed Napoleonic French soldiers invading Britain via Montgolfier style hot air balloons and hang-gliders.

It got me thinking – why is VSF so popular and not SF versions of other historical periods? A Napoleonic ship of the line could just as easily discover Caspak. Couldn't Conquistadores have found The Lost World? Celtic sorcery open a gate to Mars that the Roman Legions could march through? Look at Leonardo's designs – thats a whole world of Renaissance SF right there!

Could non-Victorian SF be a useful genre?

Historical Fantasy and alternative history is gamed. Things like da'Vinci weapons and the like pop up in a few games. Never seen a Roman legion on Mars game…but there wouldn't be too much difference between that and any other historic fantasy game other than the backdrop that they are played against.

As far as why VSF is popular – it is due to the pop culture of the Victorian age. There were a lot of writers who were writing books and stories about airships and the like. Much of that has been expanded upon for modern gamers – but the fiction of the era remains popular.

There's lots of alternate history fiction out there, and I've sometimes seen games based on some of it (for example, Turtledove's stuff). I'm sure you've seen the various Weird War II variants out there – the big stompy walker tanks are a twentieth century variant on War of the Worlds tripods. And variations on Roma Aeterna – the Roman Empire that never failed, but instead advanced technologically to discover things like steam technology and gunpowder – have also been explored. The only limit is your imagination, and my only requirement is that you post photos of your creations here!

Could be due to the existance of the Space 1889 game, & all the Planet & Sword pulp stories (John Carter).

Also, the Victorian era had a lot of colonization going on, so it's easy to conceive of the European powers colonizing Mars instead of Africa.

Napoleonic SF:
Naomi Novak's "Temeraire" series: temeraire.org/novels

"Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell" link
although the latter is more fantasy than SF.

'Lacepunk' is the genre covering the 18th century.

No one thing can even explain the whims of public p[popularity.

A few reasons why VSF over other types: The Victorian era was a period of tremendous technological and scientific change and an age of high adventure and exploration. The Victorian attitude that an enlightened, white, man could achieve almost anything. The birth of triumphalist literature, and of modern Sci/Fi in that period. The fact that Space 1889 embraced several forms of gaming and story telling. The handful of movies set in VSF (20,000 Leagues Under the Sea … ). The presence of many strange and difficult to understand artifacts. Consider the mystery held by Victorian devices while those of the Napoleonic era seem quite straight forward.

In earlier lit. the Sci/Fi was not so technical. Time travel by falling asleep. Travel to land with tiny people or huge people, Visits by ghosts. These do not feed into war gaming nearly as well as flying steam ships, super submarines, anti-gravity materials.

Perhaps the distance of time at about one century is also some type of psychological sweet-spot. Not my father's time, not my grandfathers' time, but just before the time of anyone I might meet. As we move into 2011, I notice that Pulp and alternate WWI is becoming more popular. I find my own mind drifting that way.

gun powered and steam powered Rome

Baron Munchausen is another pre- Victorian SF that springs to mind. In terms of terminology though I guess we tend to think of pre-Victorian fantastic fiction as fantasy rather than SF, perhaps "science" itself is subconsciously regarded as something that only came of age in the Industrial Revolution.

Space: 89AD ala 'Spelljammer, you don't have to use gunpowder. Combine with WarHammer Ancients and Fantasy rules for army actions, There's a fantasy version of Traveller rpg called 'Wanderer' and one called 'Mercator' that would work for roleplaying and easily interfaced with the Warhammer system…great, now I have another project…

imho the main reason there is a lot of Steampunk gaming is that the figures exist, if someone came out with Lacepunk figures or others people would game that.

I've fought against Lacepunk armies – air balloons and all – in HotT, it's gamed now.

There was a lot of propaganda printed and (naively) illustrated by both sides when the French army was concentrated at Boulogne.

Napoleonic SF is not unknown in comics

('Empire' link ) and a few attempts appear on the web
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napoleononmars.blogspot.com
but don't seem to be 'taking off'.

Lacepunk (Sci-Fi by Lace Wars times) on the other hand is publicly demonstrated

link

and for years such topics are periodically mentioned on the TMP 18th C. discussion board:
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Indeed the 18th C. saw the first balloons, steam-powered road hauler and boat, the first machine-gun and the first submarine.

Maybe the 18th C. players community is intellectually more tolerant toward such 'freewheelings' away from historical accuracy? The 18th C. is also the period par excellence for wargaming 'Imagi-Nations', and this since the late sixties (Young's 'Charge!', Grant's 'The War Game'): it may be more than coincidental.
Of course Munchausen can be quoted as a respectable 'excuse', but Da Vinci does not, seemingly, does the same service for Renaissance SF?
Keyes' 'Age of Unreason' series link , if you see the 'angels' as immaterial beings similar to the 'Vitons' link , provides an alternative literary basis.
The 'Monster Blood Tattoo' series link is also (quasi-: set on a '7th continent'?) 18th C. SF (not Fantasy, despite some vocabulary) involving tremendous advances in applied biology and biochemistry rather than in, as is traditional, mechanics and physics.

Along the same lines, 'Lacepulp' (Fantasy / Horror / Pulp by Lace Wars times) is already played here and there:
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link (eye-candy!)

link and is regularly discussed on TMP (links there: link)
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while 'Napoleonics' again barely show to feel a temptation:
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Again it may be more than coincidental?

It's all up for grabs. Polish up your imagination and go nuts. Think about this though…."retro" ie pulp SF has a huge following as well. In other words, people capitalizing on what one could assume to be a 'failed time line'.
In this case, what ifs could re-spawn into what ifs. Room full of mirrors anyone???

OK,OK Like Flash Gordon.

AAAh AHHHH!