"WW2 kit still in use today?" Topic

Was catching up some programmes I has recorded from the Military channel. One of them was on the M3 half track and the last 5 mins were about the M3 still being in service with the Israeli Army.

This got me thinking about what other WW2 era kit is still in active use today? What could conceivably turn up in service for my African or Caribbean militia?

MP45 Seen in use in Somalia I think

Within the last year or two I read an article online where current Moro guerillas had an M-1 Garand or two. I also watched a Frontline documentary on the Af-Pak border, and some of the Taliban new recruits were holding Lee-Enfield rifles.

In the case of vehicles, the T-34/85 was used on occasion during the Balkans wars, along with M-36 TDs. The old SU-76 was also used, but converted into an APC.

Lee Enfield also in service with Indian police forces and used in last years hotel operations

"What could conceivably turn up in service for my African or Caribbean militia?"

Chafees seem quite popular with tinpot dicators/banana republics, as do M3 halftracks and T34/85s.

The Republic of Ireland was using Comets until the early 1970s.

…try some of the South American countries. Paraguay still lists M4 Sherman and M3 Stuarts: link

Don't forget naval equipment.

To my knowledge the Wachbataillon of the German Bundeswehr still use the World War II Karabiner 98 k as a drill weapon for the honour guard when foreign State Leaders arrive. It seems to be easier to drill with those as with modern guns.

It is possible that the Royal Marines still use a few DUKWs.

Well let's hear it for John Moses Browning…

The M1911A1 .45 pistol is still in front-line service with elite US units.

The M2 .50 HMG is still in service with the world and his wife.

I'd be really surprised if there weren't M1919 .30 MGs shooting at things in bush wars for another couple of decades at least.

All the best,

John.

Comet was still in use in Burma until recently

MG42 is still in actual production – manufactured by H&K's Turkish subsidiary as the MG42/59 and MG3, and made under licence by Beretta and Franchi in Italy.

The L2A4 (Bren gun in 7.62 NATO) stayed in UK service into the 1990's, and is current issue in India and Sri Lanka, and rear-echelon use in ROI.

Browning 9mm Hi-power is still in widespread use.

Sterling submachine-gun… prototype entered service 1944 (at the time it was called the 'Patchett' SMG).

Still widely used, and still in current production in India as the 1A1 & 2A1 (silenced).

Centurion is still in use in Lebanon & Somalia, and converted Centurion hulls and/or chassis are in use in Israel, South Africa, Jordan & Singapore.

In the Horn of Africa all sorts of WWII small arms are still in use. I saw a photo of a Canadian para carrying a captured WWII Italian LMG (Breda 6.5 mm IIRC)

M-1 Garands, M-1 carbines, and Mausers are common in village militias in Latin America.

One of the issues with the old small arms is ammo.30-06 isn't that common anymore especially the "en block" clip for the Garand.

I've heard that with the Chinese introducing several new types of assault rifles into their armed forces they are practically giving away AK's RPDs and the 7.62X39 ammo that goes with them in Africa and Latin America.

The end may be near for a lot of those WWII weapons but then again they've had a good run.

Royal Marines using DUKWs? What's the supporting evidence for that? I've never seen, nor heard of DUKWs being used by the Royal Marines, let along being still in service.

It has to be said that to many people, an amphibious truck is a 'Duck' by default. I've also heard Stalwarts, LARCs and M2 Amphibians referred to as 'Ducks'.

The Mexican Army listed M-33 recovery vehicles as late as 2000. This was the recovery variant of the Sherman.

Lee Enfield--As very often it could have been WW1 issue originally!!!
Vickers MG..
Sherman T34/85
Jeep…
Bren Gun(rechambered)

And I'm sure there are still tons and tons of exWW2 stuff in Russian warehouses!!

John D Salt, how many of those M1911s and M2s still in service were actually made in the forties?

Thompson SMG was still in front line use in the various Balkan/Serbian conflicts, mainly the M1A1 variant. When things quietened down recently, at least some of them were sold thru' various channels to movie props houses.

To R Mark Davies

Here is a wikipedia reference, because it is wikipedia I said "possible"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DUKW

Here is another

ireference.ca/search/Instow

Pretty sure Israel still have some M4 Shermans running around as converted ARVs or engineering vehicles, but not as a tank.

And probably some navies still have WW2 era fleet auxiliaries such as oilers in active service.

"One of the issues with the old small arms is ammo.30-06 isn't that common anymore especially the "en block" clip for the Garand."

I heard a rumour (re-enactors complaining about ammo prices) that the world is running out of .303 as well, bit of a problem for the Lee Enfields.

Cheers John,

Curious. I'll talk to my Booty mates and see what they know.

Just in case anyone is curious about the .303 shortage the rumor is the conflict in Afganistan is causing it. Along with a shortage here in the US of 7.62X54 Russian and 7.62 X39. Some months back there was a shortgae of 9MM that had an impact on police traing.

Wow! Great thread! Will see if I can track more info on the MG42. Need one? Get yours today! Order now!!!10 easy payments!!!

link

"Just in case anyone is curious about the .303 shortage the rumor is the conflict in Afganistan is causing it. Along with a shortage here in the US of 7.62X54 Russian and 7.62 X39."

Heard the same about .308 shortages. Read an article in M1 magazine about the U.S. military trying to get M14's put back in service with units as fast as they can. Something to do with increasing local firepower.

"Need one? Get yours today! Order now!!!10 easy payments!!!"

For $300 USD more I could have purchased a real semi-auto MG42 at the Cross Roads gun show.:) I do love the FG-42 they have available, a real one (if you could find a seller) would be positively cost prohibitive.

There were a lot of MG42 in former Yugoslavia in each faction during their 90's civil war. Some Mausers and MP40 too. Even saw a Lewis gun in a Croatian unit which looked as nasty for the gunner as for the target!

When I was stationed in Ft Monuouth NJ and was a part of the Honor Guard, we used M-1 Garands. Now this is back in the '70s when the M16 was still controversial. I actually carried it once during a Veteran's burial service and fired it as part of a honor guard. The fort has since closed.

The MP 44 (or Stg 44 if you prefer) remained in service with the Yugoslavian Nation Army for many years. I also recall seeing a photo of a fellow in Lebanon carrying one as recently as two or three years ago.

Not sure about today, but when I was a member of a M88 crew (for a VERY short time), I was issued an M2 "Grease Gun".

This was in 1984.

The M2 "Grease Gun" was standard issue to M1 crews IIRC during the 80's. The subject of WWII German weapons ,vehicles and other WWII tanks and weapons were touched on in these threads too,

"What happened to the German equipment after the war?"
TMP link

"How many leftover WW2 tanks are around?"
TMP link

"WW2 vehicles in use past the war?"
TMP link

Robert

I imagine artillery must be the among the most long-lasting. Certainly in the 80s Soviet WW2 artillery pieces were very common in the Third World, ie 76mm, 100mm AT, 122mm, 152mm etc. The good old 25pdr has just been retired by the Republic of Ireland and I'd guess many countries still use the M101 (M2) US 105mm howitzer. The Yugoslavians and successor states seemed to have an example of just about every conceivable WW2 artillery piece.

Cameroon used to have M1897 'Soixante-quinze' WWI era howitzers on strength, though not sure if they still do!

Andrew,
When I had an infantry company in the Guard, I had 20 .50cals and 36 1911A1s and 1 1911! The weapons were mostly WWII vintage. We were working thru the stocks of WWII .45s then.
We also had 5 M-3 Greaseguns [issued to track drivers along with a .45].
Count Natokina.

So the world is finally running out of .303 ammo. Not bad considering when in the Cadets during the 80's I was using rounds made in WWII.

Me too Nigel! Then the breech explosions started… ;o)

To its eternal credit, the .303 No.4 was retired at the same time as the SLR!

Accroding to a recent issue of Classic Military Vehicles Taiwan still has several hundred Chaffees in a reserve stockpile. According to this site though they're no longer held link

The Cougars I served in up until 1988 when I left the regiment (they stayed on for a few years after that) had a coax MG which was the M1919 air cooled Browning. We called it the G-PIG.
--
Tim

I have personally seen an MG-34 that was seized from the Taliban in 2001-2. Afghan Royal Army purchased them in the 1930s.

Lots of these posts seem to saying that country X has only recently retired……

As a thought, because of the reduction in the armies of the west since the end of the cold war more modern second hand weapoms have come on to the market.

Possibly with the end of the cold war arms manufactures are looking for new markets.

Any thoughts?

Parts of the British Army were still using 37 pattern webbing in the 1980s – at the same time as other parts of the same army were burning 37 pattern webbing.

I think India may still be manufacturing .303 ammo for their Lee Enfields

Mark, there were 4 DUKWs reputedly with 11 Amphibious Trials and Training Unit RM (ATTURM), in Instow North Devon. I've seen references in print elsewhere describing their use up until the mid 2000's but I have a feeling that they've been recently retired. These chaps (18 Coy RASC) link had them before the RM & there is a photo on their site showing one DUKW apparently still in use in 1992. There's also a reference to a new Cummins diesel being installed in a RM DUKW in 1997..

Do you remember the DUKWs that used to be at Tenby for use by the monks on Caldey Island?

There was a restored DUKW driving around here a couple of years ago, they're big things on the road!

Here we are – from the offical MOD site – "The DUKW" in the photo gallery. link

Good lord… :)

Heavily 'restored' and 'modified' DUKW's are still being used by Adventure Tour companies in Northern Australia. I'm guessing that the fact they were made on standard automotive components makes them easier to maintain than more modern, specialised, vehicles like the LARC.

I have in my toolbox several large wrenches from a Sherman tank toolkit- Grandad was in the REME in WW2!
Back in the late 80's we were issued some webbing cargo straps with 1940 date stamps……also found some 1906 pattern infantry webbing pouches in an underground store facility ……..
" Do you remember the DUKWs that used to be at Tenby for use by the monks on Caldey Island?"- wasn't that the blue one? I recall seeing a DUKW in bright blue livery somewhere in my childhood travels…..

There is this famous photo from Somalia. Just check out the variety here. With the MP44 in the fore forefront.Looks like there is also a Beretta M938A, M14,K98, Carcano M91 Moschetto da Cavalleria, MAS-49/56. Robert

link

And this in Iraq,
picture

I'll have to check Skinnerton to be sure, but I think the Indian production Lee Enfields have been .308s for quite a while. The Indians started switching to .308 in the '50s, but kept using the .303 for a while after that with all .303 rifle production ending by the '70s-seems to me Skinnerton mentions the last .303 Indian model with a '70s production date.

I also think POF (in Lahore maybe) was still producing .303 ball ammo into the sixties. The last surplus .303 I had came from there. I also believe, but am not certain, that all current .303 production is commercial-former Warsaw Pact ammo factories are making some.

I don't think India is still using enough .303 to make production worthwhile-if they were I'd think it would show up as surplus from time to time and I haven't seen any .303 surplus for years. I doubt any Indian forces are using .303 Enfields, some of the village police used 410 conversions at one time. At some point the advantages of standarized calibers and the problems with replacement parts and repairs as 40 to 50-year old guns in constant service use wore out would overcome frugality.-although I'd love to have a source of ammo, parts and the like.

Dennis

"So the world is finally running out of .303 ammo."

I've got 1 great war round if anyone needs it.

There are DUKWs in London & Liverpool being used for tourist rides.

Bet there are still a few PPShs doing the rounds?