Weasel | 18 Jul 2009 9:21 a.m. PST |
What WW2 era vehicles have seen use post ww2 and where ? Whats the longest ? I guess what Im looking for is a general feeling for how quickly things got outdated. Im mostly looking for fighting vehicles here, not trucks
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Connard Sage | 18 Jul 2009 9:40 a.m. PST |
Sherman variants (M51) were still in use with the IDF in the 1970s. They were sold on to Chile where they were deployed until well into the 90s. Egypt, Angola, Yemen and Algeria had T34s until the late 1990s France used captured Panthers until the early 1950s |
Beowulf | 18 Jul 2009 9:48 a.m. PST |
Syria used some Panzer IVs. |
miniMo | 18 Jul 2009 9:49 a.m. PST |
In active US service, the M16 quad-50 cal. halftrack may be in the running -- last actual deployment was in the Newark riots of 1967 by the National Guard against our own citizens. |
Jovian1 | 18 Jul 2009 9:52 a.m. PST |
T-34's still serving in some places today – if they run they get used in most 3rd world places. |
NoLongerAMember | 18 Jul 2009 9:53 a.m. PST |
Jeeps. Bet there are more of them still in use around the world. One of the things to remember is that a chunk of post war use would be post war builds of the vehicles, tanks depreciate in action pretty fast, and then their is the question of refurbish or replace with new. If you have better available and numbers are not instantly an issue, you replace. |
Waco Joe | 18 Jul 2009 9:53 a.m. PST |
Wikipedia gives a pretty good overview of who used what after the war. Just type in the name of the vehicle and there is usually a post-war section. |
Garand | 18 Jul 2009 9:59 a.m. PST |
IIRC Mexico was using the M3 Stuart long after WWII. Also the X1A and X1A1 (based on M3 Stuart) by Brazil may count too. The M3 halftrack was used for decades afterwards, and might still be used in some areas
Damon. |
Connard Sage | 18 Jul 2009 10:02 a.m. PST |
One of the things to remember is that a chunk of post war use would be post war builds of the vehicles Not necessarily. Although Russia produced T34s well into the 1950s, production of German AFVs ceased in 1945 (obviously) but PzIVs continued in use into the 1970s. Sherman production ceased at the end of the war, they were still used into the 1990s |
Martin Rapier | 18 Jul 2009 10:07 a.m. PST |
Cromwells, Comets and Churchills soldiered on into the 50s, Centurians lasted a bit longer than that. The AVRE versions were still in use in Gulf War 1, and I think the Isrealis still have a few although not front line. |
Chieftain | 18 Jul 2009 10:12 a.m. PST |
Technically I think it's the Centurion – still in service today, albeit somewhat modified. As a Tank saw service in WW2 (although it never actually got to the frontline in time to see action) then Korea with Britain, Vietnam with the Australians, the Lebanon with the Israelis as the Sho't Kal, then the Persian Gulf with the British as AVREs. The chassis and lower hull is still in service with the Israelis as an APC. Indeed, I think the British Army have only just phased out their last Cent-based AVRE |
Frankss | 18 Jul 2009 10:13 a.m. PST |
I was looking at Turkey as member of NATO and they seemed to have quite a few older US armour on strength for quite a while. I was thinking of a WW III 1970's maybe 80's scenario of Turkey in the Caucasus against possibly Soviet B & C class divisions. Pershings, Chaffee, Greyhound and post war Walker Bulldogs IIRC. |
bourbonparma89 | 18 Jul 2009 10:13 a.m. PST |
the M24 Chaffee saw a lot of service post war in korea and vietnam(at least with the french, not sure if the americans still had them in service by that stage). plus the isrealis used a lot of M3 halftracks(and variants). The T34 lasted a long time and is still in use in some parts of the world and the good old DUKW was used also over the place for a long time. |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 10:17 a.m. PST |
Here are two interesting threads on another site that are very informative on the subject. Axis and Allied. Info and photos. Post War use of Allied vehicles and tanks link Post war use of Axis AFVs and Vehicles link Robert |
Mlatch221 | 18 Jul 2009 10:29 a.m. PST |
Oh wow, WW2 surplus vehicles were extensively used in conflicts around the world at least in to the late '70s. It would almost be easier to research a country's army and/or a specific conflict. A few highlights include: Israel used more or less stock M4A1 76 mm gunned tanks at least as late as 1967. They continued to use US halftracks at least in to the 1980s. The M24 light tank was extensively used in the post-WW2 era by many Western European nations. My recollection is that Greece and Taiwan continued using these tanks at least in to the 1980s. Yugoslavia apparently kept an extensive inventory of US made vehicles until its collapse. The numerous Balkan conflicts of the '90s saw some of these vehicles (notably the M18 tank destroyer) pulled out of reserves and used in combat. The US used halftracks in Vietnam as convoy fire support vehicles until the arrival of M113 variants in country. ('66 or '67??) |
nebeltex | 18 Jul 2009 10:34 a.m. PST |
the IDF also used M3 half-tracks for years. France used Panthers. the swiss version of the hetzer also soldiered on for a good while. |
Griefbringer | 18 Jul 2009 10:49 a.m. PST |
Cromwells, Comets and Churchills soldiered on into the 50s Finnish army also ended up buying a bunch of Comets from the Brits at some point, and those soldiered up to the end of the 60's in active service. At the end of the WWII, Finnish army also had a bunch of Pz IV, StuG and captured T34 – these were retained in service until the beginning of the 60's. AFAIK lots of South American militaries ended up getting US WWII vehicles after the war, and these might have stayed in service for quite long time. Griefbringer |
GarrisonMiniatures | 18 Jul 2009 11:05 a.m. PST |
Comets were used by the Irish army into the 1970s. |
aercdr | 18 Jul 2009 11:11 a.m. PST |
M-36 TDs were in use in the Balkans as late as 1996. They were the remnants of a battalion sold to Tito in the 1950s as part of a policy of pulling him further away from the USSR. |
Tom Bryant | 18 Jul 2009 11:11 a.m. PST |
IIRC the Israelis may still be using Sherman hulls for SPG mounts. I knew about the Brazilian Stuart mods although those have to be almost 20 years old now so given the base age of the Stewies I'd be surprised if they are still using them. As others have poinetd out the WWII Jeeps and LAnd Rovers might still be in use as well as a bunch of the old trucks. |
AndrewGPaul | 18 Jul 2009 11:28 a.m. PST |
A T-34 was taken from a war memorial in Hungary last year and used to great effect by rioters. The general Belgrano was a WW2-era ex-USN ship, wasn't she? |
charles popp | 18 Jul 2009 11:57 a.m. PST |
The general Belgrano was a WW2-era ex-USN ship, wasn't she? Yes she was but not in service any longer. I believe there are still WW2 Merch hulls still around and maybe some destroyers |
Dragon Gunner | 18 Jul 2009 12:14 p.m. PST |
Iran-Iraq War Iran had Shermans, M36 Tank Destroyers and Ferrets. Iraq had JSU152 and SU100 I am not sure about actual deployment and use but they were in the inventory. |
Ten Fingered Jack | 18 Jul 2009 12:16 p.m. PST |
miniMo, I'm not sure if they were "citizens" They certainly were destructive,rioting,looting criminals. |
Dragon Gunner | 18 Jul 2009 12:26 p.m. PST |
From various sources I have read once the vehicles become unreliable or spare parts are hard to come by they end up as a reserve unit and get tasked with jobs like airfield defense etc
When it becomes obvious they are a liability everytime the engine is fired up they end up as dug in bunker emplacements. |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 12:26 p.m. PST |
OK. Here is a list of some of the Allied equipment. Definately not a complete list LOL. Many have been used for decades and still are being used. Finland Comet MK I model B. Bought in 1961. Removed from service 1970 Dutch Staghound M24
Irish Army Four Churchill Mk VI tanks in 1948. Retired 1969 Communist China LVT (A)-4 M24 India Indian Shermans, possibly with the US M3 75 mm gun, of 18th Cavalry (Indian Army)during the 1965 Indo-Pak War. M5 Stuart US M4 Sherman M26 Pershing in Korea M36 Jackson 90mm Gun Motor Carriage Japan "The National Police Reserve didn't have tanks in those days. They had only arms such as a rifle gun, a machine gun, a trench mortar. The National Police Reserve was changed to National Security Force in October 25,1952. (110000 people) The U.S. Army gave 40 M24 tanks to them. This is a start of the JGSDF tank unit history. M24 was the light tank which had the better performance than IJA tanks in those days. It was popular from crews. M24 was deployed more than 370 in the end. The National Security Force reorganized to JGSDF (Japan Ground Self-Defense Force) in July 4, 1954. (6 District, 4 Combined group with 130000 people). JGSDF deployed medium tank in addition to M24 light tank. They received 250 M4A3 in 1954. (and 80 M32 ARV). Those were HVSS suspension types with 76.2mm gun. Because this M4 tank had a big frame, it was unsuitable for a physique of Japanese. Japanese driver had difficulty to his short foot in order to step on a clutch pedal. Domestic tank development was begun by a bad reputation factor from them" Israel Hotchkiss H35 2 Cromwell tanks used by the Israelis stolen from the 4/7 Dragoon Guards in 1948 Bren Carrier M3/M5/M9 series of halftracks UK "United Kingdom forces fighting in Korea employed the Churchill Infantry tank and the heavy Centurion. The British also used the A27M Cromwell and A34 Comet tanks in Korea." Jordan Churchill Mark VII Charioteer Mexico M5 halftrack M8 Greyhound M3 Stuart Columbia M3A1 Stuart Light Tank M3 Scout Car Argentina M4 Sherman Brazil M8 Greyhound M3 Stuart M4 Sherman Nicaragua M-4 Sherman T17E1 "Staghound Peru M20 Pakistan M36 M4 Sherman Yugoslavia M36 M7 Chile M3 Stuart M4 Sherman Venezuela M-18 Greece Centaur Vietnam French 1939 Panhard AC M24 Iran M36B1 Iraq M36B1 Egypt M22 Locusts Thailand M24 Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 12:53 p.m. PST |
Now for the Axis vehicles, Syria PzKpfw IV Ausf H Stug III JadgPanzer IV Hummel France Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Sd. Kfz. 171 Type 89B medium tanks Type 95 light tanks Type 94 tankettes. Norway PzKpfw III Stug III Ausf G Czechoslovakia Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer Turkey PzKpfw IVG Bulgaria Skoda LT vz. 35 Stug III PzKpfw IV Jagdpanzer IV L/48 Communist China Japanese type 97 Romania Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Sd. Kfz. 171 Greece Italian CV33 and CV35 Poland Panzerdraisine type Steyr K 2670 Italy L41 da 75/18, L42 da 75/18 Eygpt 15cm Sig auf Pz2 Spain PzKpfw IV Ausf H Robert |
archstanton73 | 18 Jul 2009 1:17 p.m. PST |
The mule?? I know the british used them in Belize and the Far east jungle up until the late 80's
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tuscaloosa | 18 Jul 2009 2:19 p.m. PST |
T34's were used in combat by the Republic of Macedonia during the Albanian ethnic insurgency in the spring of 2001. |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 2:47 p.m. PST |
Soviet Equipment used since WWII. Most were used obviously by countries and organizations that the Communist were sympathtic to. You will notice a pattern here LOL. North Korea T-34 Egypt T-34 North Vietnam T-34 Syria T-34 Syrian 122 mm SP gun based on the T-34-85 Communist China T-34 IS2 SU-76 Angola T-34 Finland T-34 Serbia T-34 Poland T-34 SU100 SU-152 Iraq T-34 Yugoslav People's Army T-34 Hungary T-34 Not to mention used post war by, Albania* Austria Bulgaria* Cyprus Czechoslovakia Cuba East Germany Romania* Soviet Union Afghanistan* Indonesia Laos Lebanon* Libya* Mongolia* South Yemen (PDRY)* North Yemen (YAR) Algeria* Republic of the Congo* Equatorial Guinea* Ethiopia* Guinea* Guinea-Bissau* Mali* Mozambique* Somalia* Sudan* Togo* Zimbabwe* More Allied tanks used postwar Portugal 1954 Portugal received at least fifty Grizzly tanks. They were declared obsolete in 1973 M4 Sherman M24 M5 Stuart Lebanon M4 Sherman M3 Lee Yugoslavia M4 Sherman Denmark M24 Egypt M4 Belgium M4 India Sexton South Africa Sexton |
archstanton73 | 18 Jul 2009 2:52 p.m. PST |
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Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 2:56 p.m. PST |
A Canadian built version of the M4 Sherman. "In 1942, the United States put the M4 into production replace the M3. The M4 incorporated all the features of the Ram and met British requirements. Thought was given to manufacture of the M4 in Canada but increased orders for the Valentine tank and the arsenal facilities in the United States rendered this idea moot. However, it was agreed that Ram production would be halted for the M4 Sherman at the earliest possible time. The specifications were laid down in September 1942 for the Canadian production of the M4AI. This tank became known as the 'Grizzly'. In August 1943 changeover in production was achieved after an amazing production of 1,941 Rams. While it had been planned to build large quantities of the Grizzly, orders were reduced when it was realized that the production of Sherman tanks from the USA would be sufficient for Allied requirements. Of the 188 Grizzly tanks built, some were allocated to British Forces but the bulk of them were retained for training" link Robert |
Big P from GMG | 18 Jul 2009 2:56 p.m. PST |
"Comets were used by the Irish army into the 1970s."
and there is one just down the road from my house.
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Jemima Fawr | 18 Jul 2009 3:46 p.m. PST |
Comets and Sextons were still in reserve and training units with the South African Army into the 1980s. They also STILL use Centurions, in the form of the Olifant 1b and Olifant 2 MBTs. Some of the former Yugoslav republics were still using Stuarts and M36s well into this decade. Argentina was still using Sherman Fireflies in the 1990s. Norway was still using M24 Chaffees well into the 1990s (re-gunned with the French 90mm and designated NM116). SU-100s have been almost as widespread as T-34s in the postwar world. Greece was using M8 Greyhounds and M20 recce cars until the 1990s. |
chrisswim2 | 18 Jul 2009 4:17 p.m. PST |
Gnl Belgrando is on the bottom of the Atlantic, former USS Brooklyn??, cruiser class anyway) in Falkland Island War. The German halftracks, 251 used in Europe and then by Czech, and they have build OT 810. Syria used that vehicle along with Pz IV. Chaffee hulls use with the hammerhead tow launcher (as on M901). Looks like a lot of good insight here from all over. Mexico also used Shermans. |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 4:20 p.m. PST |
Paraguay M4 Sherman Iraq Churchill Dominican Republic Swedish L60 light tank Sweden Most were used till late 50s Landsverk L60S Stridsvagn m/38 Stridsvagn m/39 Stridsvagn m/40L Stridsvagn m/40K Stridsvagn m/41 Stridsvagn m/42 Stormartillerivagn m/43 (Sav m/43) Used till 1973 Pansarvไrnskanonvagn m/43 Used till the 60s More Post war Sherman users, Uganda Phillipines Portugal France Italy Robert
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donlowry | 18 Jul 2009 4:36 p.m. PST |
The Korean War (aka "World War 2.5") would make for some interesting gaming situations. US ground forces were still equipped mostly with WW2 stuff (Chaffees, Sherman "Easy Eights," Pershings), and the NKPA and Red Chinese with Russian WW2 stuff (T34/85s and SU 76s at least). Due to the nature of the terrain, I don't believe there were any really big tank battles, mostly a platoon or less supporting some infantry. So would be good for skirmish games. |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 4:41 p.m. PST |
Dont forget as I mentioned in a previous post that the "United Kingdom forces fighting in Korea employed the Churchill Infantry tank and the heavy Centurion. The British also used the A27M Cromwell and A34 Comet tanks in Korea." Some interesting "What If?"s there.The North Korean T34/85s tended to come out on the losing side when they engaged US armored units. Robert |
enfant perdus | 18 Jul 2009 5:34 p.m. PST |
IIRC Denmark used Universal Carriers for quite a while after the War. |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 5:42 p.m. PST |
Egypt used the Archer and Bren carrier along with SU100 too.The French used the M3 Haltrack and Sherman into the 60s.Yugoslavia used the SU100 and M3A1 Scout car. Albania used the SU76. Robert |
Timbo W | 18 Jul 2009 5:58 p.m. PST |
Hi all, here's some info on WWII armoured vehicles in service in 1981, according to an old Jane's guide. Should be broadly OK but not comprehensive, seems a bit woolly on SU/JSUs and M3s and numbers may be estimated. Haven't included Cents as they were still quite a contemporary MBT. Nearly everyone was using WWII artillery pieces (even 6-pdrs) and Albania still kept the PTRD anti-tank rifle on strength! USSR Vehicles
T34 Afghanistan (200), Albania (70), Algeria (100), Angola (80), Bangladesh (30), Bulgaria (100), Cuba, Cyprus (24), Ethiopia (100), East Germany (600), Guinea (30), Hungary, Iraq (100), North Korea (350), Mali (24), Mongolia (30), Mozambique, Romania (200), Somalia (50), Syria (200), USSR, Vietnam, North Yemen, South Yemen, Yugoslavia JS2 Cuba (60), USSR SU 76 Albania, China, East Germany, Vietnam SU 85 Algeria (5), China SU 100 Albania, Algeria (70), Bulgaria (68), China, Cuba, Egypt, East Germany, Iraq (90), Romania (130), USSR, Vietnam, North Yemen, Yugoslavia SU 122 Algeria, China, Iraq (40) SU 152 (really?) Algeria JSU 122 Syria, USSR JSU 152 Egypt, Syria, USSR BA64 Albania USA Vehicles M3 (or M5) Stuart Brazil (250), Chile (10), Colombia, Ecuador (40), El Salvador (3), Guatemala (10), Mexico, Paraguay (12), Uruguay (18) M24 Chaffee Greece (190), Laos, Pakistan (50), Portugal, Uruguay (17) M3 medium tank (allegedly!) Indonesia M4 Sherman Argentina (100), Brazil (100), Chile (75), Colombia, Guatemala (10), Israel, Mexico, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Paraguay (9), Peru (60), Yugoslavia (650) M7 Priest Argentina, Brazil, Israel, Mexico, Pakistan (12), Portugal, South Africa, Turkey, Yugoslavia M8 Scott Mexico M18 Hellcat South Korea (80), Taiwan (150), Venezuela (35), Yugoslavia M36 Jackson South Korea (100), Pakistan (8), Yugoslavia M8 Greyhound Benin, Brazil (30), Cameroon, Colombia, Madagascar, Mexico, Morocco (50), Niger, Paraguay, Togo, Upper Volta, Venezuela (12), Vietnam, Yugoslavia M20 Colombia, Niger, Vietnam T17E1 Staghound Nicaragua (60), South Africa M3 Halftrack Colombia, Madagascar, Mexico, Morocco (40), Portugal, Turkey, M3 (unsure HT or scout?)- Dominica, Guatemala (6), Nicaragua (3), Togo, Yugoslavia, Zaire (60) M3 scout car Liberia, Mexico, Paraguay (50), Uruguay (10) British & Commonwealth Vehicles Comet Burma (22), South Africa (20) Sexton Portugal, South Africa Marmon-Herrington armoured car Cyprus |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 6:08 p.m. PST |
Good list. Looks like it might be missing a couple. But I think when combined with the other posts it would be more accurate as to who had what LOL. :). And don't forget the FT-17s found in Afghanistan and Iraq!!! Weren't used but still around LOL. Robert |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 6:31 p.m. PST |
BTW I have seen the Hotchkiss tanks used by the Israelis listed as H-35 and H-39. Alot of these were used in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and beyond. Egypt Humber Mk IV Armoured Car Marmon-Herrington IVF Light Tank Mk VI Matilda II Valentine Syria Marmon-Herrington IVF R-35 Tank R-39 tank. Israel Humber Mk III Reconnaissance Armoured Car M7 Priest Lebanon FT-17 Jordan Archer Robert |
Jim McDaniel | 18 Jul 2009 6:33 p.m. PST |
In the 1950's and 69's the USAAF used AF-blue painted M-20 armored cars for air base degense a Travis AFB for ssecurity and defense of B-52s. Or5 does that count? I saw them all time at Travis AFB, California growing up near there. |
Canuckistan Commander | 18 Jul 2009 6:37 p.m. PST |
Brazil is still rebuilding M5 Stuarts to this day! |
The Jim Jones Cocktail Hour | 18 Jul 2009 8:10 p.m. PST |
That will come as real news to the Brazilian army who retired them years ago. To the best of my knowledge the X1A1 and X1A2 programs came to an end in the 1980s and the derivative enginerring vehicles in the early '90s. A stockpile of old unconverted M-3/ M-5s in private hands was recently sld off to collectors. IIRC Uruguay still had M-24s in their inventory until quite recently and I believe Colombia still uses a handful of M-8 armoured cars.
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Jemima Fawr | 18 Jul 2009 10:14 p.m. PST |
C15TA armoured trucks were used by Dutch and Danish police until the late 90s. |
Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 10:35 p.m. PST |
South Vietnam C15TA M24 M8 Greyhound Indonesian Nationalist Forces Marmon-Herrington AC Bren Carrier Sweden Two captured Congolese M8s were pressed into Swedish UN service in the Congo Dutch Braat Overvalwagen Taiwan (ROC) M-36. 2 still in service as of Apr 2001 M5A1 Stuart France Indo-China LVT(A)4 Amphibious Tanks,LVT(A)4 LVT(A)1 Amphibious Tanks,LVT(A)1 LVT4 Amphibious Personnel Carrier,LVT4 LVT(A)2 Amphibious Personnel Carrier,LVT(A)2 LVT2 Amphibious Personnel Carrier 2,LVT2 M29 Amphibious Personnel Carriers , M29 , Crabe M8 HMC Self-Propelled 75mm Howitzers Past and present operators of the M8/M20 AC include Algiers, Austria, Belgium, Benin, Brazil, Britain, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Colombia, Cyprus, El Salvador, Ethiopia, France, Germany (captured in 2.WW and Border Guard after the war), Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Iran, Italy, Jamaica, Japan,Malagasy, Mexico, Morocco, Niger, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Korea, South Vietnam, Taiwan, Thailand, Togo, Tunisia, Turkey, USA, Venezuela, Yugoslavia, Zaire
Robert |
BlackWidowPilot | 18 Jul 2009 10:41 p.m. PST |
"Israel Hotchkiss H35 " Nope. Later production Hotchkiss Char Legere H-39. More powerful engine and longer-barreled 37mm gun:
picture picture
The older Horchkiss H35 had a distinctive slope to the engine decking (smaller engine) and the shorter 18SA 37mm gun: link
Leland R. Erickson Metal Express metal-express.net
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Kaoschallenged | 18 Jul 2009 10:53 p.m. PST |
Thanks. Thats why I stated that "BTW I have seen the Hotchkiss tanks used by the Israelis listed as H-35 and H-39". I have seen them identified as both. :). I realized too late to edit the original post I listed it on. Robert |