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"WW2 vehicles in use past the war?" Topic


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Personal logo Weasel Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2009 9:21 a.m. PST

What WW2 era vehicles have seen use post ww2 and where ?

Whats the longest ?

I guess what Im looking for is a general feeling for how quickly things got outdated.


Im mostly looking for fighting vehicles here, not trucks

Connard Sage Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 9:40 a.m. PST

Sherman variants (M51) were still in use with the IDF in the 1970s. They were sold on to Chile where they were deployed until well into the 90s.

Egypt, Angola, Yemen and Algeria had T34s until the late 1990s

France used captured Panthers until the early 1950s

Beowulf Supporting Member of TMP Fezian18 Jul 2009 9:48 a.m. PST

Syria used some Panzer IVs.

miniMo Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2009 9:49 a.m. PST

In active US service, the M16 quad-50 cal. halftrack may be in the running -- last actual deployment was in the Newark riots of 1967 by the National Guard against our own citizens.

Jovian1 Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 9:52 a.m. PST

T-34's still serving in some places today – if they run they get used in most 3rd world places.

NoLongerAMember Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 9:53 a.m. PST

Jeeps. Bet there are more of them still in use around the world.

One of the things to remember is that a chunk of post war use would be post war builds of the vehicles, tanks depreciate in action pretty fast, and then their is the question of refurbish or replace with new. If you have better available and numbers are not instantly an issue, you replace.

Personal logo Waco Joe Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2009 9:53 a.m. PST

Wikipedia gives a pretty good overview of who used what after the war. Just type in the name of the vehicle and there is usually a post-war section.

Garand18 Jul 2009 9:59 a.m. PST

IIRC Mexico was using the M3 Stuart long after WWII. Also the X1A and X1A1 (based on M3 Stuart) by Brazil may count too. The M3 halftrack was used for decades afterwards, and might still be used in some areas…

Damon.

Connard Sage Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:02 a.m. PST

One of the things to remember is that a chunk of post war use would be post war builds of the vehicles

Not necessarily. Although Russia produced T34s well into the 1950s, production of German AFVs ceased in 1945 (obviously) but PzIVs continued in use into the 1970s. Sherman production ceased at the end of the war, they were still used into the 1990s

Personal logo Martin Rapier Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2009 10:07 a.m. PST

Cromwells, Comets and Churchills soldiered on into the 50s, Centurians lasted a bit longer than that. The AVRE versions were still in use in Gulf War 1, and I think the Isrealis still have a few although not front line.

Chieftain Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:12 a.m. PST

Technically I think it's the Centurion – still in service today, albeit somewhat modified.

As a Tank saw service in WW2 (although it never actually got to the frontline in time to see action) then Korea with Britain, Vietnam with the Australians, the Lebanon with the Israelis as the Sho't Kal, then the Persian Gulf with the British as AVREs.

The chassis and lower hull is still in service with the Israelis as an APC. Indeed, I think the British Army have only just phased out their last Cent-based AVRE

Frankss Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2009 10:13 a.m. PST

I was looking at Turkey as member of NATO and they seemed to have quite a few older US armour on strength for quite a while. I was thinking of a WW III 1970's maybe 80's scenario of Turkey in the Caucasus against possibly Soviet B & C class divisions.

Pershings, Chaffee, Greyhound and post war Walker Bulldogs IIRC.

bourbonparma89 Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:13 a.m. PST

the M24 Chaffee saw a lot of service post war in korea and vietnam(at least with the french, not sure if the americans still had them in service by that stage). plus the isrealis used a lot of M3 halftracks(and variants). The T34 lasted a long time and is still in use in some parts of the world and the good old DUKW was used also over the place for a long time.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:17 a.m. PST

Here are two interesting threads on another site that are very informative on the subject. Axis and Allied. Info and photos.

Post War use of Allied vehicles and tanks
link

Post war use of Axis AFVs and Vehicles
link

Robert

Mlatch221 Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:29 a.m. PST

Oh wow, WW2 surplus vehicles were extensively used in conflicts around the world at least in to the late '70s. It would almost be easier to research a country's army and/or a specific conflict.

A few highlights include:
Israel used more or less stock M4A1 76 mm gunned tanks at least as late as 1967. They continued to use US halftracks at least in to the 1980s.

The M24 light tank was extensively used in the post-WW2 era by many Western European nations. My recollection is that Greece and Taiwan continued using these tanks at least in to the 1980s.

Yugoslavia apparently kept an extensive inventory of US made vehicles until its collapse. The numerous Balkan conflicts of the '90s saw some of these vehicles (notably the M18 tank destroyer) pulled out of reserves and used in combat.

The US used halftracks in Vietnam as convoy fire support vehicles until the arrival of M113 variants in country. ('66 or '67??)

nebeltex Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:34 a.m. PST

the IDF also used M3 half-tracks for years. France used Panthers. the swiss version of the hetzer also soldiered on for a good while.

Griefbringer18 Jul 2009 10:49 a.m. PST

Cromwells, Comets and Churchills soldiered on into the 50s

Finnish army also ended up buying a bunch of Comets from the Brits at some point, and those soldiered up to the end of the 60's in active service.

At the end of the WWII, Finnish army also had a bunch of Pz IV, StuG and captured T34 – these were retained in service until the beginning of the 60's.

AFAIK lots of South American militaries ended up getting US WWII vehicles after the war, and these might have stayed in service for quite long time.

Griefbringer

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2009 11:05 a.m. PST

Comets were used by the Irish army into the 1970s.

aercdr Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 11:11 a.m. PST

M-36 TDs were in use in the Balkans as late as 1996. They were the remnants of a battalion sold to Tito in the 1950s as part of a policy of pulling him further away from the USSR.

Tom Bryant Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2009 11:11 a.m. PST

IIRC the Israelis may still be using Sherman hulls for SPG mounts. I knew about the Brazilian Stuart mods although those have to be almost 20 years old now so given the base age of the Stewies I'd be surprised if they are still using them. As others have poinetd out the WWII Jeeps and LAnd Rovers might still be in use as well as a bunch of the old trucks.

AndrewGPaul Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 11:28 a.m. PST

A T-34 was taken from a war memorial in Hungary last year and used to great effect by rioters.

The general Belgrano was a WW2-era ex-USN ship, wasn't she?

charles popp18 Jul 2009 11:57 a.m. PST

The general Belgrano was a WW2-era ex-USN ship, wasn't she?

Yes she was but not in service any longer. I believe there are still WW2 Merch hulls still around and maybe some destroyers

Dragon Gunner18 Jul 2009 12:14 p.m. PST

Iran-Iraq War

Iran had Shermans, M36 Tank Destroyers and Ferrets.

Iraq had JSU152 and SU100

I am not sure about actual deployment and use but they were in the inventory.

Jack Burton Supporting Member of TMP18 Jul 2009 12:16 p.m. PST

miniMo,
I'm not sure if they were "citizens" They certainly were destructive,rioting,looting criminals.

Dragon Gunner18 Jul 2009 12:26 p.m. PST

From various sources I have read once the vehicles become unreliable or spare parts are hard to come by they end up as a reserve unit and get tasked with jobs like airfield defense etc… When it becomes obvious they are a liability everytime the engine is fired up they end up as dug in bunker emplacements.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 12:26 p.m. PST

OK. Here is a list of some of the Allied equipment. Definately not a complete list LOL. Many have been used for decades and still are being used.

Finland
Comet MK I model B. Bought in 1961. Removed from service 1970


Dutch
Staghound
M24

Irish Army
Four Churchill Mk VI tanks in 1948. Retired 1969

Communist China
LVT (A)-4
M24

India
Indian Shermans, possibly with the US M3 75 mm gun, of 18th Cavalry (Indian Army)during the 1965 Indo-Pak War.
M5 Stuart

US
M4 Sherman
M26 Pershing in Korea
M36 Jackson 90mm Gun Motor Carriage

Japan
"The National Police Reserve didn't have tanks in those days. They had only arms such as a rifle gun, a machine gun, a trench mortar. The National Police Reserve was changed to National Security Force in October 25,1952. (110000 people) The U.S. Army gave 40 M24 tanks to them. This is a start of the JGSDF tank unit history. M24 was the light tank which had the better performance than IJA tanks in those days. It was popular from crews. M24 was deployed more than 370 in the end. The National Security Force reorganized to JGSDF (Japan Ground Self-Defense Force) in July 4, 1954. (6 District, 4 Combined group with 130000 people). JGSDF deployed medium tank in addition to M24 light tank. They received 250 M4A3 in 1954. (and 80 M32 ARV). Those were HVSS suspension types with 76.2mm gun. Because this M4 tank had a big frame, it was unsuitable for a physique of Japanese. Japanese driver had difficulty to his short foot in order to step on a clutch pedal. Domestic tank development was begun by a bad reputation factor from them"

Israel
Hotchkiss H35
2 Cromwell tanks used by the Israelis stolen from the 4/7 Dragoon Guards in 1948
Bren Carrier
M3/M5/M9 series of halftracks

UK
"United Kingdom forces fighting in Korea employed the Churchill Infantry tank and the heavy Centurion. The British also used the A27M Cromwell and A34 Comet tanks in Korea."

Jordan
Churchill Mark VII
Charioteer

Mexico
M5 halftrack
M8 Greyhound
M3 Stuart

Columbia
M3A1 Stuart Light Tank
M3 Scout Car

Argentina
M4 Sherman

Brazil
M8 Greyhound
M3 Stuart
M4 Sherman

Nicaragua
M-4 Sherman
T17E1 "Staghound

Peru
M20

Pakistan
M36
M4 Sherman

Yugoslavia
M36
M7

Chile
M3 Stuart
M4 Sherman

Venezuela
M-18

Greece
Centaur


Vietnam
French 1939 Panhard AC
M24

Iran
M36B1

Iraq
M36B1

Egypt
M22 Locusts

Thailand
M24

Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 12:53 p.m. PST

Now for the Axis vehicles,

Syria
PzKpfw IV Ausf H
Stug III
JadgPanzer IV
Hummel

France
Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Sd. Kfz. 171
Type 89B medium tanks
Type 95 light tanks
Type 94 tankettes.

Norway
PzKpfw III
Stug III Ausf G

Czechoslovakia
Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer

Turkey
PzKpfw IVG

Bulgaria
Skoda LT vz. 35
Stug III
PzKpfw IV
Jagdpanzer IV L/48

Communist China
Japanese type 97

Romania
Panzerkampfwagen V Panther Sd. Kfz. 171

Greece
Italian CV33 and CV35

Poland
Panzerdraisine type Steyr K 2670

Italy
L41 da 75/18, L42 da 75/18

Eygpt
15cm Sig auf Pz2

Spain
PzKpfw IV Ausf H

Robert

archstanton73 Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 1:17 p.m. PST

The mule?? I know the british used them in Belize and the Far east jungle up until the late 80's…

tuscaloosa Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 2:19 p.m. PST

T34's were used in combat by the Republic of Macedonia during the Albanian ethnic insurgency in the spring of 2001.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 2:47 p.m. PST

Soviet Equipment used since WWII. Most were used obviously by countries and organizations that the Communist were sympathtic to. You will notice a pattern here LOL.

North Korea
T-34

Egypt
T-34

North Vietnam
T-34

Syria
T-34
Syrian 122 mm SP gun based on the T-34-85

Communist China
T-34
IS2
SU-76

Angola
T-34

Finland
T-34

Serbia
T-34

Poland
T-34
SU100
SU-152

Iraq
T-34

Yugoslav People's Army
T-34

Hungary
T-34

Not to mention used post war by,
Albania*
Austria
Bulgaria*
Cyprus
Czechoslovakia
Cuba
East Germany
Romania*
Soviet Union
Afghanistan*
Indonesia
Laos
Lebanon*
Libya*
Mongolia*
South Yemen (PDRY)*
North Yemen (YAR)
Algeria*
Republic of the Congo*
Equatorial Guinea*
Ethiopia*
Guinea*
Guinea-Bissau*
Mali*
Mozambique*
Somalia*
Sudan*
Togo*
Zimbabwe*

More Allied tanks used postwar

Portugal
1954 Portugal received at least fifty Grizzly tanks. They were declared obsolete in 1973
M4 Sherman
M24
M5 Stuart

Lebanon
M4 Sherman
M3 Lee

Yugoslavia
M4 Sherman

Denmark
M24

Egypt
M4

Belgium
M4

India
Sexton

South Africa
Sexton

archstanton73 Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 2:52 p.m. PST

What's a Grizzly tank???

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 2:56 p.m. PST

A Canadian built version of the M4 Sherman.

"In 1942, the United States put the M4 into production replace the M3. The M4 incorporated all the features of the Ram and met British requirements. Thought was given to manufacture of the M4 in Canada but increased orders for the Valentine tank and the arsenal facilities in the United States rendered this idea moot. However, it was agreed that Ram production would be halted for the M4 Sherman at the earliest possible time. The specifications were laid down in September 1942 for the Canadian production of the M4AI. This tank became known as the 'Grizzly'. In August 1943 changeover in production was achieved after an amazing production of 1,941 Rams. While it had been planned to build large quantities of the Grizzly, orders were reduced when it was realized that the production of Sherman tanks from the USA would be sufficient for Allied requirements. Of the 188 Grizzly tanks built, some were allocated to British Forces but the bulk of them were retained for training"

link

Robert

Big P from GMG Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 2:56 p.m. PST

"Comets were used by the Irish army into the 1970s."


…and there is one just down the road from my house.

Jemima Fawr Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 3:46 p.m. PST

Comets and Sextons were still in reserve and training units with the South African Army into the 1980s. They also STILL use Centurions, in the form of the Olifant 1b and Olifant 2 MBTs.

Some of the former Yugoslav republics were still using Stuarts and M36s well into this decade.

Argentina was still using Sherman Fireflies in the 1990s.

Norway was still using M24 Chaffees well into the 1990s (re-gunned with the French 90mm and designated NM116).

SU-100s have been almost as widespread as T-34s in the postwar world.

Greece was using M8 Greyhounds and M20 recce cars until the 1990s.

chrisswim2 Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 4:17 p.m. PST

Gnl Belgrando is on the bottom of the Atlantic, former USS Brooklyn??, cruiser class anyway) in Falkland Island War.
The German halftracks, 251 used in Europe and then by Czech, and they have build OT 810. Syria used that vehicle along with Pz IV.

Chaffee hulls use with the hammerhead tow launcher (as on M901).
Looks like a lot of good insight here from all over.

Mexico also used Shermans.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 4:20 p.m. PST

Paraguay
M4 Sherman

Iraq
Churchill

Dominican Republic
Swedish L60 light tank

Sweden
Most were used till late 50s
Landsverk L60S – Stridsvagn m/38
Stridsvagn m/39
Stridsvagn m/40L
Stridsvagn m/40K
Stridsvagn m/41
Stridsvagn m/42
Stormartillerivagn m/43 (Sav m/43) Used till 1973
Pansarvδrnskanonvagn m/43 Used till the 60s

More Post war Sherman users,

Uganda
Phillipines
Portugal
France
Italy


Robert

donlowry18 Jul 2009 4:36 p.m. PST

The Korean War (aka "World War 2.5") would make for some interesting gaming situations. US ground forces were still equipped mostly with WW2 stuff (Chaffees, Sherman "Easy Eights," Pershings), and the NKPA and Red Chinese with Russian WW2 stuff (T34/85s and SU 76s at least). Due to the nature of the terrain, I don't believe there were any really big tank battles, mostly a platoon or less supporting some infantry. So would be good for skirmish games.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 4:41 p.m. PST

Dont forget as I mentioned in a previous post that the "United Kingdom forces fighting in Korea employed the Churchill Infantry tank and the heavy Centurion. The British also used the A27M Cromwell and A34 Comet tanks in Korea." Some interesting "What If?"s there.The North Korean T34/85s tended to come out on the losing side when they engaged US armored units.

Robert

enfant perdus18 Jul 2009 5:34 p.m. PST

IIRC Denmark used Universal Carriers for quite a while after the War.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 5:42 p.m. PST

Egypt used the Archer and Bren carrier along with SU100 too.The French used the M3 Haltrack and Sherman into the 60s.Yugoslavia used the SU100 and M3A1 Scout car. Albania used the SU76. Robert

Timbo W18 Jul 2009 5:58 p.m. PST

Hi all,

here's some info on WWII armoured vehicles in service in 1981, according to an old Jane's guide. Should be broadly OK but not comprehensive, seems a bit woolly on SU/JSUs and M3s and numbers may be estimated. Haven't included Cents as they were still quite a contemporary MBT. Nearly everyone was using WWII artillery pieces (even 6-pdrs) and Albania still kept the PTRD anti-tank rifle on strength!


USSR Vehicles

T34 – Afghanistan (200), Albania (70), Algeria (100), Angola (80), Bangladesh (30), Bulgaria (100), Cuba, Cyprus (24), Ethiopia (100), East Germany (600), Guinea (30), Hungary, Iraq (100), North Korea (350), Mali (24), Mongolia (30), Mozambique, Romania (200), Somalia (50), Syria (200), USSR, Vietnam, North Yemen, South Yemen, Yugoslavia

JS2 – Cuba (60), USSR

SU 76 – Albania, China, East Germany, Vietnam

SU 85 – Algeria (5), China

SU 100 – Albania, Algeria (70), Bulgaria (68), China, Cuba, Egypt, East Germany, Iraq (90), Romania (130), USSR, Vietnam, North Yemen, Yugoslavia

SU 122 – Algeria, China, Iraq (40)

SU 152 (really?) – Algeria

JSU 122 – Syria, USSR

JSU 152 – Egypt, Syria, USSR

BA64 – Albania

USA Vehicles

M3 (or M5) Stuart – Brazil (250), Chile (10), Colombia, Ecuador (40), El Salvador (3), Guatemala (10), Mexico, Paraguay (12), Uruguay (18)

M24 Chaffee – Greece (190), Laos, Pakistan (50), Portugal, Uruguay (17)

M3 medium tank (allegedly!) – Indonesia

M4 Sherman – Argentina (100), Brazil (100), Chile (75), Colombia, Guatemala (10), Israel, Mexico, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Paraguay (9), Peru (60), Yugoslavia (650)

M7 Priest – Argentina, Brazil, Israel, Mexico, Pakistan (12), Portugal, South Africa, Turkey, Yugoslavia

M8 Scott – Mexico

M18 Hellcat – South Korea (80), Taiwan (150), Venezuela (35), Yugoslavia

M36 Jackson – South Korea (100), Pakistan (8), Yugoslavia

M8 Greyhound – Benin, Brazil (30), Cameroon, Colombia, Madagascar, Mexico, Morocco (50), Niger, Paraguay, Togo, Upper Volta, Venezuela (12), Vietnam, Yugoslavia

M20 – Colombia, Niger, Vietnam

T17E1 Staghound – Nicaragua (60), South Africa

M3 Halftrack – Colombia, Madagascar, Mexico, Morocco (40), Portugal, Turkey,

M3 (unsure HT or scout?)- Dominica, Guatemala (6), Nicaragua (3), Togo, Yugoslavia, Zaire (60)

M3 scout car – Liberia, Mexico, Paraguay (50), Uruguay (10)

British & Commonwealth Vehicles

Comet – Burma (22), South Africa (20)

Sexton – Portugal, South Africa

Marmon-Herrington armoured car – Cyprus

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 6:08 p.m. PST

Good list. Looks like it might be missing a couple. But I think when combined with the other posts it would be more accurate as to who had what LOL. :). And don't forget the FT-17s found in Afghanistan and Iraq!!! Weren't used but still around LOL.
Robert

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 6:31 p.m. PST

BTW I have seen the Hotchkiss tanks used by the Israelis listed as H-35 and H-39.

Alot of these were used in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and beyond.

Egypt
Humber Mk IV Armoured Car
Marmon-Herrington IVF
Light Tank Mk VI
Matilda II
Valentine

Syria
Marmon-Herrington IVF
R-35 Tank
R-39 tank.

Israel
Humber Mk III Reconnaissance Armoured Car
M7 Priest

Lebanon
FT-17

Jordan
Archer

Robert

Jim McDaniel Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 6:33 p.m. PST

In the 1950's and 69's the USAAF used AF-blue painted M-20 armored cars for air base degense a Travis AFB for ssecurity and defense of B-52s. Or5 does that count? I saw them all time at Travis AFB, California growing up near there.

Canuckistan Commander Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 6:37 p.m. PST

Brazil is still rebuilding M5 Stuarts to this day!

The Jim Jones Cocktail Hour Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 8:10 p.m. PST

That will come as real news to the Brazilian army who retired them years ago. To the best of my knowledge the X1A1 and X1A2 programs came to an end in the 1980s and the derivative enginerring vehicles in the early '90s. A stockpile of old unconverted M-3/ M-5s in private hands was recently sld off to collectors.


IIRC Uruguay still had M-24s in their inventory until quite recently and I believe Colombia still uses a handful of M-8 armoured cars.

Jemima Fawr Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:14 p.m. PST

C15TA armoured trucks were used by Dutch and Danish police until the late 90s.

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:35 p.m. PST

South Vietnam
C15TA
M24
M8 Greyhound

Indonesian Nationalist Forces
Marmon-Herrington AC
Bren Carrier

Sweden
Two captured Congolese M8s were pressed into Swedish UN service in the Congo

Dutch
Braat Overvalwagen

Taiwan (ROC)
M-36. 2 still in service as of Apr 2001
M5A1 Stuart

France Indo-China
LVT(A)4 Amphibious Tanks,LVT(A)4
LVT(A)1 Amphibious Tanks,LVT(A)1
LVT4 Amphibious Personnel Carrier,LVT4
LVT(A)2 Amphibious Personnel Carrier,LVT(A)2
LVT2 Amphibious Personnel Carrier 2,LVT2
M29 Amphibious Personnel Carriers , M29 , Crabe
M8 HMC Self-Propelled 75mm Howitzers


Past and present operators of the M8/M20 AC include Algiers, Austria, Belgium, Benin, Brazil, Britain, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Colombia, Cyprus, El Salvador, Ethiopia, France, Germany (captured in 2.WW and Border Guard after the war), Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Iran, Italy, Jamaica, Japan,Malagasy, Mexico, Morocco, Niger, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Korea, South Vietnam, Taiwan, Thailand, Togo, Tunisia, Turkey, USA, Venezuela, Yugoslavia, Zaire

Robert

BlackWidowPilot Supporting Member of TMP Fezian18 Jul 2009 10:41 p.m. PST

"Israel
Hotchkiss H35 "


Nope. Later production Hotchkiss Char Legere H-39. More powerful engine and longer-barreled 37mm gun:

picture


picture

The older Horchkiss H35 had a distinctive slope to the engine decking (smaller engine) and the shorter 18SA 37mm gun:


link


Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
metal-express.net

Kaoschallenged Inactive Member18 Jul 2009 10:53 p.m. PST

Thanks. Thats why I stated that "BTW I have seen the Hotchkiss tanks used by the Israelis listed as H-35 and H-39". I have seen them identified as both. :). I realized too late to edit the original post I listed it on.
Robert

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