"WAB Second Edition news..." Topic

This is WWII related how?

This is WWII related how?

Or Early 20th Century, 19th Century, 18th Century and Napoleonic.

I think the OP is extracting the urine.

Well, the last paragraph mentions:

other projects that we've got in the pipeline including Over the Top (a supplement to The Great War), a brand new World War II game and a 28mm Napoleonic wargame.

Which might be of interest for WWI, WWII and Napoleonics gamers. However, in this context the title is misleading.

"WWII would probably be based on the latter…"

Nope. Nuthin' like. See previous threads.

"…and Napoleonic rules bassed on W:ECW, itself a WAB variant."

I wouldn't assume that. It could be, but what we're seeing now are GW staff "pet projects" emerging, and you cannot safely assume that they are based on the traditional GW game engines.

This, of course, will fail to register with many, who will continue to post on the assumption that everything is a Warhammer variant.

Allen

I welcome both the news and the new hardback version and don't care where such information is posted. In a tenious roundabout sort of way the update is relevant to the other periods. Not for the news of WAB2 itself, but for the "upcoming projects" section.

WAB2 has been lost in the "coming" stage for so long, without so much as a whisper from Forgeworld regarding progress, that even the most patient of us were growing concerned. But it is nice to see that they are nearing completion – in the end not quite on schedule but near enough. The "end of the year" had been their original mooted target so the first quarter or so of next year isn't so far behind. Trust them to literally leave it to the very last newsletter of the year to give us the news though! Made us wait didn't they? lol :)

I just hope it has been worth the wait. Hardback is precisely what I've always hoped for, but the extra pages won't mean a damn if its all glossy pictures – just padding to try to disguise the loss of real quality. At the end of the day it is the rules, Army lists and information that matter, the pictures are just window dressing. Inspirational if done right, but window dressing none the same. GW's Codexes generally suffer from not realising this, having too much style and not enough substance. I hope that trend has not been transposed into WAB2. I hope WAB2 has the balance right.

We shall see.

Thank you for the news! I am very eagerly awaiting this arrival. :D

ust padding to try to disguise the loss of real quality

Why on earth would one assume there's a loss of "real quality"? I'm not even sure what that means. I think we can safely assume the rules are still in the book.

Glossy color photos of well-painted miniatures/terrain = good. Heck, that could be the entirety of the new content and I'd be ok with that. I spend more time reading these books than playing with them, so having them as good pictorial reference is not a bad thing.

Unless you like actual real information in your rulebooks in which case those lovely glossy photos aren't really as useful. I don't mind the occasional picture. Even a few pages worth, It does break up the text and make the book look appealing. If chosen wisely, some of the pictures can provide visual aids, even inspire and inform in their own right, I get that. But such content MUST be balanced with what the book is really about – and that is NOT the pictures. If, as you say "all the new content" is pretty pictures – no sorry, that is not good enough, not for me and not for many others either.

We haven't waited as long as we have for a bunch of pretty pictures. We could have picked up pretty pictures from any number of books and pieces of art, months if not years ago. We've been waiting for RULES, ARMY LSTS and INFORMATION!

If such content has been compromised for the sake of more pictures, then that is what I mean by the danger of "lost quality".

But the fact that the book is bigger than before could be seen as a hopeful sign, in that it has (hopefully) made room for the extra pictures without compromising on the real information that actually matters.

I hope so.

I'm thrilled to hear WAB 2.0 is really coming.

I am also very interested to see what Naps and WW2 will be like. However, I really hope that if these are new systems and not adaptations of existing ones, that they have been playtested and will be supported. War of the Ring was a disgrace, clever and innovative ideas, however it's full of holes that could be fixed if they would release an FAQ or errata, but no sign that they care to do so. My concern is that pet projects like this might come out of the GW oven half-baked and left that way.

If it means anything at all this is Forgeworld (as is all WH produce now) rather than GW proper. For what its worth.

I'll be glad to see Over the Top finally, and WAB2 is of great news as well. Pleased to see WAB2 will be released as a hardback, most of my books were softback until I picked up RoE, and I'm really digging hardbacks for core rules now.

If it means anything at all this is Forgeworld (as is all WH produce now) rather than GW proper. For what its worth.

Not what they'll be asking for it.

I don't want a coffee table book. I want a rulesbook with which to play the ing game.

I could see those extra pages being Armies of Antiquity style lists so you could more easily get started out of the core book. In any case I am looking forward to it.

"Which thread(s)? If it's one of those that devolved into "is not, is so," I may have zoned out."

TMP link

Yep, it devolved, predictably, but that key bit of information was also right up front, and had also been explained in gecoren's post here:

TMP link

If you're on the WAB Forum, a more complete explanation is here (see Guy's posts):

link

"Pet projects deserves a whole thread…"

See Tommy's post in the WAB Forum thread, right above Guy's: "From what was said by the author, this will be a Warhammer Historical release, one of the many to be produced by GW staff." Lovely, wot?

"Oi, Dat's My Leg!" is a vastly underrated game, by the way.

"I could see those extra pages being Armies of Antiquity style lists so you could more easily get started out of the core book."

One might so think. One might be disappointed. One might find that one will get to pay extra (and at FW prices) for the next iteration of "Armies of Antiquity".

Allen

There were already a couple of threads about the WWII rules on the (surprise!) WWII Rules board of TMP. These were inspired by the article on a recent issue of Wargames Illustrated.

DColtman- War of the Ring was a disgrace? I've heard very good things about it, so I'm wondering why you think that. Based on the feedback I've heard and seen in several places I was even thinking of picking it up. I'm not trying to contradict you here, but honestly would like to know why you think so.

I'll look at WAB 2, and if it's up to snuff, I'll buy and play. If not, WAB 1 is still very good and I'll just keep on playing. If those glossy photos illustrate actual game play examples to make the points clearer,I won't mind them a bit.

TGerritsen, War of the Ring has some great ideas and interesting mechanics. We were very enthusiastic about it, but the problem with it is that there are many critical concepts (e.g. mechanics of basic movement, sequence & limits for epic actions, many list issues) that are not clearly laid out in the rules. So you either need to house-rule a bunch of stuff or you end up arguing about it. Furthermore, the special rules are wide open to abuse by power-gamers, which can make it not a lot of fun when you come up against killer-combos. All these things could be fixed by releasing an FAQ or errata to clear up some things. The problem is twofold. First, the rules were not adequately playtested to find the faults before the game was released. Second, GW has not followed up by clearing it up, so they are letting it wither on the vine. Shame- to me that is the disgrace. If you want to follow up some of these issues have a look at some of the threads on the warhammer forum(s) or here posted previously.

So, my fear is that GW WW2 or Naps could come out looking nice but with the same kind of broken bits on the inside. But maybe I am being unduly pessimistic.

I'm glad they put some news in the newsletter this time round.

I'm confused…didn't they already do WAB 2.0 a few years back to much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how we all had to buy the new book?? What's different about this version?

I'll just keep an open mind, and see what it looks like if/when it's released. Once I've seen some reviews I'll decide if I want it or not. To be honest, I'm actually more excited about "Over the Top" than I am WAB 2.0. Here's hoping they include an early War Russian list!

Cheers,
Tom

"I'm confused…didn't they already do WAB 2.0 a few years back to much wailing and gnashing of teeth about how we all had to buy the new book??"

No. Basically, they reprinted the v.1 rulebook with the online errata added (and a few other things), and called it "1.5".

>>> To be honest, I'm actually more excited about "Over the Top" than I am WAB 2.0. Here's hoping they include an early War Russian list!

You may be disappointed, if you were looking for an in-depth Russian list:

link

But then, that's "old news" and may have changed.

Allen

I refuse to believe anything that the folks at Warhammer Historical say or print or release, until such time as I actually see the product for sale, in stock, on store shelves, etc.

Until then, they have no credibility with me. They have said lots of things, made lots of promises, but that is simply so much hot air.

I like WAB. I like the previous Warhammer Historical rules sets. However, until the line is again available for us to purchase and use, I'm not believing a word of what they say. They have ZERO credibility with me.

respects,

"Weighing in at 208 pages, the new edition will be hardback and full colour throughout. The book is lavishly illustrated with fantastic colour photographs and stunning full-colour artwork."

The emphasis on the size of the book reminds me of a famous quip of Callimachus: mega biblion mega kakon -- a big book is a great evil (or at least an over-priced one in this instance…).

I was curious enough in 2.0 to consider buying it. Then the Forge World Mess began.

Not really sure if I'll buy it at this point. I'm afraid of getting the ol' "Product X doesn't support our CORE BUSINESS" schpeel.

We'll see. I'm intrested in the concept of playing ancients in 28mm. From everyting I've read about 1.5, it seems worth a peek.

I'm going to go with TK on this one. I'll believe it when I see it, and then, I'll give them some time to pull the plug BEFORE I buy.

Chasing them for 3 months to send me a replacement box for my Space Hulk game and their whole IP Blitz left a bad taste as well. I know Forge World is a differnt branch, but in the end, the money all goes to the same place.

I read on one of the groups that there is a fundamental change in WAB 2 about formation depth, so units will be wider and not as deep. Can anyone "in the know" elaborate on this?

Aegiscg47, word on the forums is that formations will only be two figures deep. Three figures deep for some special units. Rank depth bonus will be gone, replaced by a rank length bonus. This info is not confirmed, only rumoured.

I played the original WAB and liked the game. But they still haven't come out with Divine Wind for their samurai army booklet (at least the last time I checked). I got so frustrated with the old Armies of Antiquity Samurai list, I wrote a TS&TF variant for feudal Japanese warfare from 1550-1615. The only ancients I own now are samurai and I'd like to purchase a 28-mm Korean army, too.

Though I'd love to put together Bronze armies for the Trojan War, I don't feel like sinking another $950.00 USD into Redoubt figures and terrain just so I game chariot armies with WAB. And I don't feel like sinking lots of cash into another Warhammer book now that I play WH40K again. Enough of my money has gone to the mail order trolls in Baltimore, MD and their masters in Nottingham, UK!

And you mean to tell me that Forge World is going to be printing and selling the new WAB 2.0 books? I don't know whether to laugh or cry (given the fact what it cost me just to buy some Chaos terminator and Land Raider upgrades for my Nurgle vehicles)…

"Aegiscg47, word on the forums is that formations will only be two figures deep. Three figures deep for some special units. Rank depth bonus will be gone, replaced by a rank length bonus. This info is not confirmed, only rumoured."

Some unguarded comments by persons who (contractually) aren't *supposed* to be saying anything lead me to a slightly different conclusion. I expect more linear formations to be encouraged over deeper ones, true.

Allen

Le sigh…

"Aegiscg47, word on the forums is that formations will only be two figures deep. Three figures deep for some special units. Rank depth bonus will be gone, replaced by a rank length bonus. This info is not confirmed, only rumoured."

I wonder if they are going for smaller units on the table then?

Otherwise we are going to need wider tables…

D

*waits for the "GW has a controlling interest in plywood and furniture, that's why they want to increase table size!!!!11'11!1!" paranoia to begin*

Blake Walker, how is it WH's fault that you play 40K? YOU choose to play the expensive 40k rather than (generally cheaper) historicals. Economically speaking, that is a weird logic to say the least. While I appreciate you might have been put off by the long wait (I'm sure many have) if Forgeworld stick to their word, that wait will be over and will soon be like a bad dream.

Do try to remember that in the past part of the delay was due to Supplement writers being enthusiast gamers and generally not in-house staff. WAB relied on the knowledgeable amongst Joe Public stepping forward and saying "I'll do that". Perhaps, if we wanted more supplements, we should have volunteered ourselves? There were other issues of course, such as GW restricting WH's budget, staff and printing run (which had to fit in with GW proper). All in all, it is a small miracle WH managed to print much at all!

In fairness, Divine Wind might well have arrived by now if the author (and head of WH) hadn't been erm, replaced by Forgeworld. The delay since has allegedly been due to Forgeworld "getting up to speed" with their new charge. Although it took too long to get here, now that it has arrived, WAB2 should hit the ground running and we should see quite a fast moving WAB schedule begin in 2010.

Of course, all that said, we have yet to see what Forgeworld have done to WAB2. The nightmare might only be beginning..!

As the man said:

link

Allen

I'm certainly hoping so Allen. :D

And thanks, as ever, for the input and links. :)

In honor of your sig, elsewhere:

YouTube link

"Endeavor to persevere", indeed!

Allen

YouTube link

Scott

Blimey Allen, well spotted. You get the prize! But what prize should that be I wonder? :D

I dunno. Maybe all you flush folks in the UK who don't choke at paying 40 quid for a book could take up a collection and send me a copy when 2.0 comes out! ;^)

Allen

Lol :D

I will doubtless buy this but I really do think that they need to get some supplements out pretty sharp once it's released. For a 10 year old rule set the numbers of 'official' lists out there are too thin on the ground IMO. There are newer systems out there (FOG & Impetus) which have already got out a good range of lists and I know that I and others have switched to these systems, at least temporarily, simply because the armies we want to play are covered. We are of course talking really obscure armies (e.g. Crusaders and Successors) for an ancients set ;-)

In light of delays to supplement release and, latterly, the rules some of those players I know have moved on period and may take some tempting back. In particular I don't see any of them buying this until AFTER the lists start to appear. Once bitten, twice shy :-(

Umm isn't WAB, GAMES WORKSHOP WARHAMMER for Ancients?
Shouldn't this post be in Ancients and FANTASY?
;o)
I'll stick with FoG and DBA,..
Cheers

From the announcememt, last paragraph:

"We also wanted to let you know about some of the other projects that we've got in the pipeline including Over the Top (a supplement to The Great War), a brand new World War II game and a 28mm Napoleonic wargame. We'll be giving you more information about each of these projects in due course but rest assured there are plenty more being worked on and there's something for everyone!"

Hence why it has been cross posted here. It was right there in clear sight to be easily found, if you'd only read before you quipped. ;)

By all means stick to DBA and FOG, both just as "Fantasy" as WAB is, in their own ways. Each to his own. :)

Scutatus
I thought my:

;o)

was also there in clear sight.
"…if you'd only read before you quipped. ;)"

and mine had a nose,… o
Maybe the TOPIC heading should have been more discriptive?
;o)
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

I knew you were joking, hence my mentioning that you were quipping and my own smileys. :) I reposted the relevant paragraph only to put our comments in context, because I am sure there are some out there that wouldn't have bothered to read the news properly – it just doesn't include you. :)

No ill will here. No slur intended either. After all, tabletop wargames are ALL fantasy games really and that is all I meant.

A very Merry Christmas to you too! :D

"Aegiscg47, word on the forums is that formations will only be two figures deep. Three figures deep for some special units. Rank depth bonus will be gone, replaced by a rank length bonus. This info is not confirmed, only rumoured."

None of the above rumors are true.
JJ

"Aegiscg47, word on the forums is that formations will only be two figures deep. Three figures deep for some special units. Rank depth bonus will be gone, replaced by a rank length bonus. This info is not confirmed, only rumoured."

In that case, I wonder how phalanxes would work?

"No ill will here"

None Taken

"..No slur intended either. After all, tabletop wargames are ALL fantasy games really and that is all I meant".

You got that right!
:o)
Cheers

I think this is great news for a popular ruleset. However, as has been said, I'm still eagerly awaiting Divine Wind, which I assume will need to get updated again!

Steve
Cavalcade Wargames
cavalcadewargames.com
nycjadie.wordpress.com

It is being "reworked" as we speak, so as to be compatible with WAB 2.0. As is Successors for that matter – presumably so are all the other "works in progress". By the time they are printed (in 2010?) they will be fully compatible with WAB 2.0. and should not require further revamp. Although apparently "all present supplements" are still relevant and useable with the new rules. And just as well it is too.