| ultimatewargamer | 06 Nov 2008 8:21 p.m. PST |
Hi this unit was in the British 7th Division 1st brigade in the Peninsula war. What was the uniform & facings for these troops? |
| Quintus Valerius | 06 Nov 2008 10:24 p.m. PST |
I believe standard British uniform, with light blue facings and silver lace for officers. |
| Whirlwind | 06 Nov 2008 11:09 p.m. PST |
IIRC, the Osprey MAA335 link mentions that is in more or less standard British Light Infantry uniform – i.e. Centre Company privates have wings, everyone has green plumes. Regards |
| Terry37 | 04 Dec 2008 8:09 p.m. PST |
There is also reference to their wearing black crossbelts, but possibly not all the companies. I am doing mine with them though. Terry |
| Sparker | 09 Dec 2008 3:31 a.m. PST |
So did this unit fight as Line or Light? |
| Whirlwind | 09 Dec 2008 2:47 p.m. PST |
Hi Sparker, In the context of the British Army in the Peninsular, what does this question mean? Regards |
| Supercilius Maximus | 09 Dec 2008 6:22 p.m. PST |
IIRC, the 7th Division was supposed to be a "Light Division Mk2" but never really lived up to the hype and ended up being referred to as "the mongrels" because of their multi-national composition. Definitely not in the same bracket as the 43rd, 52nd and 95th; or even the better Portuguese cacadore units. |
| Defiant | 14 Dec 2008 3:35 a.m. PST |
>>>>>So did this unit fight as Line or Light?<<<<< As far as I know they were indeed, Light troops, being named chasseurs does give that away somewhat. I have noticed that many mercenary troop units from all over Europe in various armies were refered to, dressed as and organised as light troops. Look at the French army and you will see this alot. One thing I remember reading about them, Wellington took them from out post duty because of their perpencity to desert… Shane |
| Major Snort | 14 Dec 2008 7:32 a.m. PST |
Despite having the title "Chasseurs", this unit was, at least initially, a line battalion. There is some evidence that they attempted to convert to light infantry in 1812, but this is contradicted by a contemporary letter written by Private Wheeler of the 51st, who were part of the same brigade. Refering to the Second Battle of Sorauren in 1813, he contrasts the bugles of the 51st and 68th to the drums of the Chasseurs and 82nd. I would say that this is good evidence that the battalion had not converted into a light unit. Apart from the above, I would not class them as light in a wargame, because even if they had been trained to operate as skirmishers, Wellington would not allow them on the outpost line, and as far as I know, there is no record of them skirmishing during the Peninsular War. |
| Edwulf | 14 Dec 2008 12:10 p.m. PST |
Fought as line as far as I know. They could fight quite well.
They started off quite well motivated at the start of their career but as they took to recruiting from Prison camps and deserters from the French Peninsula armies they had a propensity to desert |
| Defiant | 14 Dec 2008 3:29 p.m. PST |
interesting, personally I have little information on them, I would like to know more about them. Is there any good info on them anyone would suggest ? p.s. Even if clothed as light troops, many of these units were not well trained as such if at all. As for the drums in the unit, I do recall that several light formations used drums instead of bugles. Shane |
| Terry37 | 14 Dec 2008 4:37 p.m. PST |
Shane, if you can find a copy, the book "Wellington's Mongrel Regiment, A History of the Chasseurs Britanniques Regiment 1801-1814", by Alistar Nichols tells the story of this regiment. The book is a good read, but in my mind, does not really give a finite answer to their being line or lights. However from all I've read about them, I am going with doing the regment as line. Terry |
| Defiant | 14 Dec 2008 5:52 p.m. PST |
Thx Terry, Who were they Brigaded with and which Division ? |
| Whirlwind | 14 Dec 2008 11:29 p.m. PST |
Shane, AFAIK, the Chasseurs Brittaniques were initially brigaded with the 51st and 85th, with the 68th being added in July 1811. The 85th left the Peninsular in October 1811. The 1/82nd was added in November 1812. This brigade remained in the 7th Division for the length of its participation in the war (all from Oman). Regards |
| Defiant | 15 Dec 2008 2:14 a.m. PST |
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| Edwulf | 15 Dec 2008 3:51 p.m. PST |
Yep, Whirlwind has it right.
In the 7th division, also Brunswick Oels were part of their brigade. Under Sontag to start with and Inglis later on. |
| Defiant | 23 Dec 2008 7:26 a.m. PST |
p.s. I just received my new copy of the book today. I could not believe how quickly I got this from the UK. I ordered it on the 15th and it arrived all the way from the UK to Australia here today, the 23rd… amazingly fast delivery. 8 days ! Shane |
| iceblink | 12 Jan 2009 4:05 p.m. PST |
What did their colors look like? Can anyone point me to a picture?
Aaron |
| Whirlwind | 12 Jan 2009 10:31 p.m. PST |
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| Defiant | 12 Jan 2009 10:33 p.m. PST |
I have the book, I will look into it tonight for you. |
| Defiant | 13 Jan 2009 12:46 a.m. PST |
Sadly, the book I own on the Chasseurs Britannique state that there are no details for the regimental colours available. |
| Edwulf | 13 Jan 2009 11:38 a.m. PST |
yep.. I heard something like that before..
Id make an educated guess that they had two colours.. maybe a regimental and a kings colour, Id guess that these would be made up of either a facing coloured flag, a union flag or a French royal flag… you could make any two of these and it would still look alright and plausable… if not accurate. |
| Defiant | 13 Jan 2009 3:40 p.m. PST |
I also read that when uniformed they were dressed in Light Infantry garb, this was the habit of the time also in the French army. I then read that in 1803 they were re-dressed in your typical British Scarlet jackets, light blue facings with white cross belts. And to add to that they were still dressed in light infantry style boots. Incidentally, new cross belts were handed out to several companies which were black, my book said that the Regiment (by company) actually went into battle with both coloured cross-belts. This could be of interest to those who wish to paint them up. Also, in 1803 they were organized as your typical British btln, namely, a Grenadier company, a Light company and the rest being Centre companies. Still, I do wonder if they were used as Light infantry given that they worse light infantry dress. This would make no real difference at all really other than giving them some kind of skirmish ability but my own dury is out on this. As for flags, I go along with what Edwulf says, if no details are historically forth coming on their flags then you really have a free hand to do as you please, I see no reason not to paint up some fictitious French Royal Flag just so you can differentiate them from other btlns on the table top, no one is going to care anyway. At least you can find them in all that sea of Red along your battle line, which is the problem I find when using British soldiers on the table top. Regards,
Shane |
| Sergeant Ewart | 13 Jan 2009 5:20 p.m. PST |
Hi There
Try this link link Regards Gerry McGinty |
| Supercilius Maximus | 14 Jan 2009 11:12 a.m. PST |
Interesting link, Sergeant Ewart. Does the book Shane refers to say details of the colours are not known, or that it is not known if they had any? Few of the foreign regiments enlisted into British service had colours (many were short-lived anyway); those that did often brought their own with them. The other foreign corps in the 7th Division – the Brunswick "Owls" – had no flags. |
| Defiant | 14 Jan 2009 3:22 p.m. PST |
Hi Mate, The book I have has a short chapter on their uniform details and right at the end of that has a single sentance stating that the details of unit colours are not known. I will check it again tonight and write the sentance word for word. Shane |
paints the Dogman from the Flintloque starter set.
