Help support TMP


"Open Letter from Tony Reidy of Wargames Factory" Topic


530 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please use the Complaint button (!) to report problems on the forums.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Return to the Open Letter from Tony Reidy of Wargames Factory News


Areas of Interest

General

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Showcase Article

Transporting the Simians

How to store and transport an army of giant apes?


Featured Profile Article

Is This Useful? Dome Stickers

Could you find a purpose for dome-shaped, three-dimensional stickers?


Featured Book Review


51,309 hits since 15 Jan 2011
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 

Darkoath15 Jan 2011 5:46 p.m. PST

I think this type of letter should not even be allowed to be published here…

It does us all a diservice and only harms our hobby. Why air WF's dirty laundry in public like this?

Rogzombie Fezian15 Jan 2011 5:50 p.m. PST

Tony, all I can say is good luck and I'm sure you said what needed to be said. There is a new dynamic in the industry now. One that will lay claim to the mom and pop operations and destroy the quality of the industry.

WOTC announced they will no longer make plastic miniatures,
the stuff with Reaper sounds dubious and now this. Its a bad time in the industry.

deanoware15 Jan 2011 5:56 p.m. PST

Having met and spoke with Tony at a convention this year I must say all the attacks on his "professionalism" are unfair.

The fact that he had to resort to an "open letter" is probably in and of itself enough to upset him and could justify his anger. Clearly he wants to purchase his company back as it seems he was led to believe he would be able to do. I therefore assume the open letter is due to the fact that the Chinese investor refuses to discuss this with him directly. Thus the open letter.

Furthermore, without having "all" the details Tony gave enough for me to also conclude that his anger is justified.

Like those who have said it already, to me Wargames Factory was "Tony". When and if he gets control again I will support them once more. Until then I will be switching to Gripping Beast and their growing line of plastics.

Chortle Fezian15 Jan 2011 5:58 p.m. PST

>If he is so passionate about the company, why did he sell off almost all of his interest in it?

Obviously, to keep getting product from Ming the merciless.

>if Tony does have the right to buy back the company then what is the point of the rant

He made an offer. It was not his option to exercise.

Skeptic15 Jan 2011 6:05 p.m. PST

@Darkoath:

It may help to provide additional background for these two topics:

TMP link

TMP link

Now, I see that you've already posted two similar posts with only a minute or so in between – are you somehow connected to this issue?

DoubleNot715 Jan 2011 6:05 p.m. PST

Fault him if you wish but it is information many would want to know. No more WF orders for me unless this is resolved favorably.

Thunderstroke15 Jan 2011 6:07 p.m. PST

The "open letter" is even addressed to Wai Kee Hui.

Now, reading the letter, consider:

Is Wai Kee Hui now likely to be more receptive, or less receptive, to Tony's ideas?

Is Wai Kee Hui now likely to have more trust, or less trust, in Tony?

Is Wai Kee Hui now more likely to do something good for the business, or not?

Overall, is this open letter going to help Wargames Factory resolve their problems, or will it make those problems worse?

No; the more you read the letter, and the more you think about it, it is a spectacular example not only of what never to do, but also of exactly how not to do it.

I repeat my exhortation – now an entreaty – to Tony to ask Bill to remove this entire thread.

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP15 Jan 2011 6:10 p.m. PST

Gotta go with the guys I know!
No more Wargames Factory for me
Mr Lonnie!

Augustus15 Jan 2011 6:13 p.m. PST

Waste of time with this public airing. WF has issues. Like any other successful company. Unfortunately it has issues too early in its life. Of course if you drop to 4% of your control, don't be surprised. Investors and/or partners are rarely to be trusted unless you have controlling interest.

Also, I am generally amazed by the comments concerning old Glory.

Was Old Glory that threatened by WF that fanboys appear to celebrate another company's apparent troubles? Wow. That is just sad.

Bob in Edmonton15 Jan 2011 6:14 p.m. PST

I don't have a dog in this fight. But I'm happy to boycott WF until this gets resolved decently for Tony. I like WF but lots of other options. If Tony can't get the company back, I hope he'll start another one. I'd happily patronize it.

CelticPagan15 Jan 2011 6:20 p.m. PST

I would say it, in part, was to let those speculating on things that were patently false (such as things Lonnie stated in his emails) to know they were not true, and to make those who were throwing vitriol Tony's way for not getting their already paid for products, a reason why it was not Tony who was able to control the shipping of goods.

I've never worked with, or for Tony, or Tim, Howard or John. I have nothing to gain or loose in this fight, but the information Tony just provided is as close as you will get to the actual facts of the case. On one hand you have an employee working hand in hand with the Chinese company to undermine the authority of the very person who gave him his job in hopes of making money at the expense of everyone who was kind to him when he was down. You have a Chinese Company and their US representative get a partial stake in Tony's company, while they simultaneously having "difficulties and mistakes" in getting the goods to Tony for shipping to customers. We've yet to hear from them, and it will likely be a while now that a good portion of the truth is out now.

The Chinese "own" WGF, and have seen to it that Tony and the old team could not either send the purchases, nor inform the customers why there were delays. So, as the public face of WGF, Tony was the one falsely vilified.

If Tony arrived home today following a funeral of a loved one to find yet another wrongdoing by the "New" Team, I can understand his decision to go public. I also understand the tone of his letter. Given my druthers, I wish he had not done so, but what is done is done. I, like his co-workers and friend, will stand behind him, and indeed all of them. They are upright and honorable men, unlike those now exerting control.

Tony, Tim, Howard and John, many of us out here in the gaming and collecting universe support you and stand beside you as all this goes down. People like those now calling the shots, have shown themselves capable of most anything, and as such, are not "businessmen" anyone should do business with at any time. If given a chance, they will do the same to retailers and anyone else who "partners" with them. They have also shown a willingness to hurt a charity that does great work on behalf of the Mentally Challenged all in the pursuit of the Almighty Dollar, or Yuan. Business may be business, but there is still a right way and a wrong way to do things while still adhering to the concept of making money. These people have crossed that line.

I will say no more, as I have nothing more to say. People, being people, will believe what they want regardless of facts and common sense. Some who have posted here are, and have been WGF-haters for a long time. Others believe they know everything about everything. Other still believe the Gordon Gecko adage of Greed is Good, and will have no sympathy for people who have watched, helplessly as their dreams were destroyed right before their eyes and they could do nothing to stop it. Then there are people like myself, who have pieced things together and had them confirmed by Tony's letter, and who will forgive his ranting about the many, many injustices done to him , his friends, and his dream, and will support him in whatever ultimately happens.

Jojojimmyjohn15 Jan 2011 6:32 p.m. PST

Thanks to Howard and John for the additional context. I hope things work out OK for you guys and Tony. This is really sad news. I have enjoyed assembling, painting and playing with WF products for the last couple of years and appreciated the great service I received on previous orders.

RE: "If you've had zero ability to ship orders since October, then why is the web-store still open?"

I share the same question. I am not a lawyer, but doesn't collecting money for a product you can't provide constitute fraud on the part of Lonnie and his new partners?

Mike at Work 215 Jan 2011 6:34 p.m. PST

did any stores ever pick up the line and have them in stock? I want to buy some of the product, but won't order from the company directly because of this….

6milPhil15 Jan 2011 6:38 p.m. PST

I fully support the idea that prime movers in the industry should be free to make such statements public.

Here's hoping for an agreeable settlement.

Patrick R15 Jan 2011 6:40 p.m. PST

Wargames Factory seems to me to have been an uphill struggle all the way. The first sets were of lesser quality but things did improve with each new set. I was really looking forward to the WSS figures and the preorder special was ordered late last year.

As it stands now my trust in WF is very low indeed. I can only hope that things improve in the future or that something good can be salvaged from this.

altfritz15 Jan 2011 6:47 p.m. PST

41% to 4% Reminds me of Facebook…

Battle Works Studios15 Jan 2011 6:56 p.m. PST

did any stores ever pick up the line and have them in stock? I want to buy some of the product, but won't order from the company directly because of this….

Yes. I've seen Shock Troopers at the local store, and I know they got them through a distributor. I've seen some of the historical figs at Hobby Town as well.

JR McLennan15 Jan 2011 6:58 p.m. PST

This is sad. It is not sad because Tony went public, but sad because the hobby looks like it may well lose a positive force for change.

WF came into the hobby with a fresh approach to things – "sell to – don't steal from" the hobby.

At all times they have involved the hobbyist – because they are hobbyists themselves. They "GET" who we are and what we do.

Unfortunately the great irony is that the company now looks like it will become a victim of the modern American economic model – build, develop, grow, take money, go bust – who cares I made my money, ha ha.

Sadly Tony, Howard and others, who have been the public face of the company for so long, will be the fall guys.

I will watch this space – I had many orders still to place, but will not do so now. I will not give money to someone who already has so much it has soiled his judgment. I will wait until Tony regains control of HIS company.

I will support Tony, I will not support another suit who only cares about taking the cash from my wallet.

Tony you have my sympathies and I hope that this can be sorted quickly – even if only for your own peace of mind and health.

CPBelt15 Jan 2011 7:01 p.m. PST

I never trusted WF from Day 1. They have always been plagued with vaporware, shoddy quality, and broken promises. They were nothing more than a hype machine, which is always a bad sign. I do not feel bad for them. Welcome to the world of overseas business. I feel bad for the good people they suckered in with their hype. Maybe if they actually made their products in America (or the UK) instead of using the Chinese indentured servitude system things would have been different? They got what they paid for.

sneakgun15 Jan 2011 7:03 p.m. PST

Sad, happens all the time in this hobby.

Wargamer Dave15 Jan 2011 7:20 p.m. PST

@ sneakgun

Sorry? THIS happens all the time in this hobby?

So evil Chinese companies take over small wargames producers with the aid of stealth former-GW employees??

Yeah, sure, happens all the time!

Raynamhab15 Jan 2011 7:22 p.m. PST

Freedom of speech – calls for removing thread seem unreasonable to say the least.

McWong7315 Jan 2011 7:25 p.m. PST

Deleted by Moderator

Tony lays out clearly that it's 110% the fault of the Chinese backers – not the good ole Deleted by Moderator Lonnie. Not the decent Deleted by Moderator management intermediaries. Nor is the fault of a lack of good, honest Deleted by Moderator business sense that got them into this mess! No! It's the Chinese.

28mmMan15 Jan 2011 7:30 p.m. PST

Lonnie…an 8+yr veteran of Games Workshop employ…and they still hired him…hmmm

Hope this is all resolved soon.

mweaver15 Jan 2011 7:30 p.m. PST

Good luck Tony, Howard, and John.

Valator15 Jan 2011 7:34 p.m. PST

My condolences go out to Tony and his team. They busted their tails to get the company going, and though they had the poor judgement of turning to China rather than pursuing their stateside options, they couldn't have known they they'd end up like this.

In some ways, this reminds me of the Lorraine Williams takeover at TSR back in the 1980s, and I hate seeing history repeating itself.

Thunderstroke15 Jan 2011 7:38 p.m. PST

@Raynamhab – "calls for removing thread seem unreasonable…"

They would be – except that I suggested that Tony request that his own open letter and the thread be removed, for his own and everyone else's benefit.

I was not directly requesting removal.

Heck, I've posted on the thread a bunch of times already, so it obviously interests me.

But back to your point; where did you get the idea that this mythical "freedom of speech" applies to a moderated online forum?

Although I am kind of sad to have time to be this interested…

Mapleleaf15 Jan 2011 7:44 p.m. PST

is one simple fact about doing business in China that non Chinese ( ie non People's Republic of China people) By PRC law a minimum of 51% of the ownership of the Chinese assets must be held by PRC citizens companies etc.

So when a business dispute breaks out the PRC owner has control.

Iowa Grognard15 Jan 2011 7:46 p.m. PST

So wait, does this mean I still won't get my pre-order of WSS? Who got my 50 bucks?

Edwulf15 Jan 2011 7:58 p.m. PST

McWrong!
He is quite clearly blaming almost EVERYTHING on Lonnie and was actually appealing to the Chinese businessman to get shot of him.

To everyone else, I feel bad for the guys but business is a coldhearted areana sometimes. I reckon he has realised his company is lost to him and that in this form its over now. So he wants the truth to be known so at least he could salavage some honour and reputation.

Im sure if he felt the situation was salvagable he wouldnt have made the letter public.

Cadian 7th15 Jan 2011 8:00 p.m. PST

Since this is a large forum on all that is mini wargaming,since Tony has not been able to respond on the WF forum or email..locked out I guess, and since I do have an outstanding order I would like to have..or refund from…this is an appropriate place for news from someone that has given previously good customer care…
If you dislike or are offended by this thread, I should admit that I dislike 15mm and ancient wargaming…but surprise, surprise, I do not post on those threads. Because any comments I had would have no value to those who are onto that aspect of the hobby and the comments could be perceived as antagonistic.

RelliK15 Jan 2011 8:03 p.m. PST

Tony lays out clearly that it's 110% the fault of the Chinese backers


Theres nothing wrong with the Chinese or Tony. It's most likely communication; the ethnic business standards are much more different between US and China. All a chain needs is a weak link and its ready for disaster.

I am not going to judge, I just know there are issues here.

Mike

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP15 Jan 2011 8:21 p.m. PST

I know who my friends are.
Them, I will support.

I liked the company, even though they didn't produce anything I wanted. It was their attitude that I liked. I had submitted some "suggestions", which I would have bought.
NOW, those are out of the question.

elsyrsyn15 Jan 2011 8:22 p.m. PST

What is up with this obsession with making one's dirty laundry public? Whining to the court of public opinion is hardly a professional (or even an adult) way to handle this sort of thing.

Doug

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP15 Jan 2011 8:32 p.m. PST

I do not post on those threads. Because any comments I had would have no value to those who are onto that aspect of the hobby and the comments could be perceived as antagonistic.

A majority of posts on TMP now fall under the category of frivilous non-value added posts. Review the last months worth of topics and the quantity and quality of said posts should be apparent.

So why not join in on the fun? All the cool kids are doing it.

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP15 Jan 2011 8:38 p.m. PST

Well, up till now, Doug, the blame for WF's recent inabilities to make timely shipments of product, etc., have been blamed on Tony (especially by the WF haters). But now we know that those problems actually came from the actions of Lonnie Mullins and the Chinese. So I would say that's why Tony has decided to publicly air the situation. Can't say I blame him.

Duck Crusader15 Jan 2011 8:38 p.m. PST

Yep. I'm a certified plastics fanatic. I have scads of WGF stuff, and a laundry list of stuff I was waiting to buy.

Not anymore. Fully behind you guys.

AngusIII15 Jan 2011 8:39 p.m. PST

I agree that airing the dirty laundry – whining in the court of public opinion are not professional and certainly does not help in reconciliation or mediation (the letter has much on emotions and Judgments and does not share much on details or facts). Also it seems to me that if you slander someone in public and it causes financial harm to that person or company you could become libel.

So I believe this was a huge mistake by Tony to ask for this letter to be published in our forums. Either cut your losses and move on or if you are trying to protect your customers or loyal busines partners do not resort to name calling and questioning the character of other employees or financial backers in public but just share the facts and let others draw conclusions because they know your character.

McWong7315 Jan 2011 8:42 p.m. PST

Edwulf, I was trying to point that out via sarcasm, but making it clear to all the contents of the letter has so far not prevented anyone from immediately reading the word "Chinese" and leaping into vitriol.

None of us have enough information at all to know what the true story is (but we are making some more than educated guesses I will acknowledge).

Does anyone know of any UK run companies producing plastic wargames figures going through the wringer like this?

Lee Brilleaux Fezian15 Jan 2011 9:04 p.m. PST

A few more points:

I don't think anyone's saying that this is the fault of 'the Chinese' as a collective entity. Indeed, Tony taught English in China just after he finished college, and has a huge regard for Chinese culture. The issue is with Wai Kee and his operation.

Why did WF make a deal with a Chinese company in the first place? Not deliberately. It was simply a problem of finding a N. American company that could convert computer-designed images into steel moulds. The decline of manufacturing in the US meant that, while there are people who can make things in plastic, the technology that permits CAD images to become actual plastic objects appeared unobtainable except in China. Tony had wanted the entire operation to be based within driving distance of the Triangle facility for disabled workers, where WF works with them as packers (etc).

Why did WF allow the Chinese supplier to become a partner? Because otherwise we could only afford to put out one set at a time, paid for by the proceeds of the last one. You have to sell several thousand sets to break even. The 'deal' (which clearly proved disastrous pretty quickly) involved tooling several sets at once, thus potentially growing the company and allowing Tony to buy back his share in the company, as per agreement. If both sides had followed their side of the agreement honestly and fully, there would have been no problem, and everyone would have made some money as WF grew.

Why hire someone you don't trust? Human goodness trumping suspicion, I think. I didn't help here. I thought Lonnie, though a bit on the Dwight Shrute end of the personality scale, was okay. Silly me.

On Libel. If I write something that's not true, it's 'libel'. If I write something that's true, it's called a 'fact'.

BlackWidowPilot Fezian15 Jan 2011 9:15 p.m. PST

"Why are we having to be subjected to this letter in the first place… it has nothing to do with us? This sounds like an internal problem within WF. Why air dirty laundry in public like this? What are you hoping to gain by doing so?"


IMHO it has everything to do with any of us who recognize that ours is a small community that depends upon small companies like those that Tony Reidy and cadre started. Our community also depends upon public-access fora such as TMP to communicate freely and openly within our small community: such matters are IMHO very much relevant, and I thank Mr. Bill Armintrout for making them public when they come to his attention.

Wargames Factory was founded upon the idea that they would actually listen to what the community wanted – and through the Liberty & Union League give creative individuals a chance to see their ideas become 28mm models for the community to enjoy. AFAIK this is quite unique within our industry (can anybody remind me of the last time GW actually released a model based upon the creative input of hobbyists rather than their own in-house design team?).

This sort of "internal problem" has repercussions for the consumer base that makes such companies possible. As a consumer and as one who has two proposals in the L&UL break the 100% pre-order commitment marker, I for one am not at all pleased with this turn of events that appear to have been triggered by one person who placed his own avarice over the needs of the employer who gave him a job after he'd been laid off, repaying that kindness as it were by going behind his employer's back and bad-mouthing him to the supplier, triggering this little coup d'etat.

I for one am interested not only as a consumer in matters like these, but also on principle as a human being. I take a dim view of those who willfully bite the hand that feeds them for no other excuse than a very gutless form of opportunism. Reputation is everything in business, and this entire affair of 'delayed" shipments and other mischief that too many have laid the blame on Tony Reidy publicly accusing him of everything from incompetence to outright criminal behavior was IMHO clearly not his fault, but rather the result of the behind-the-scenes actions of someone who placed his own personal ambitions above those of his employer and the continued well-being of the company.

That is my personal opinion unexpurgated, and I am confident that the evidence thus far made public on TMP and on the WF forum backs me up in my conclusions.


Leland R. Erickson

LeadLair7615 Jan 2011 9:16 p.m. PST

Well it sounds like a bad situation no matter the exact facts. Hopefully things can get worked out but if not I wish Tony and everyone else the best.

BlackWidowPilot Fezian15 Jan 2011 9:20 p.m. PST

"Does anyone know of any UK run companies producing plastic wargames figures going through the wringer like this?"


From repeated baseless ad hominems about Wargames Factory to this apparent skullduggery, "McWong?" I've been in this hobby up to my eyeballs for over 30 years now, and never have I seen a company subjected to such vitriolic attacks on everything from the quality of its goods to the honesty of its business practices without a shred of empirical facts to back 'em up with such steady and obnoxious regularity.

Frankly, WF at this point reminds me of the Biblical Job. I sincerely hope it ends for WF as it did for Job, and I for one will do whatever I can as a consumer to help that process along.


Leland R. Erickson

JR McLennan15 Jan 2011 9:40 p.m. PST

Hi,

There have been some interesting comments here so far on this thread. Unfortunately some need removing as they clearly breach the standards on blatant racism.

Tony did a good thing – even if not in the best way. Now we have been advised as to WHY things are not going as planned.

A good question has been asked about the webstore – Tony has now given those of us here the opportunity to avoid paying for items we may never see.

The overall thing to consider is INTENT. I do not believe that the China-based manufacturer intended for things to go the way they have. It would be bad business.

Having said that however it would not be the first time that a company would set up in another country, fleece the locals and then go under. American companies do it all of the time. It is called "good business practice". I looked this up in my law books – there it was called something else of course.

If WF comes through this I will get back on board. But I have to say that as a consumer I do have power. I can withhold my dollars. This is exactly what a business cannot take.

I choose to deal with ethical companies (so with the recent repackaging of GW figures I stopped going into their stores) and reward those companies who behave as if there is a tomorrow.

Something went seriously wrong over at WF. I hope it gets sorted real fast.

JR McLennan15 Jan 2011 9:52 p.m. PST

Oh – and if anyone is setting up a poll – my vote is Lonnie out, Tony in.

Waaaaaayyyy out in fact. We have yet to hear Lonnie's side in this – but I would suspect that his silence is due to his being unable to deny the facts.

If there is such a place as Hell – its future occupancy has certainly increased by one….. What an inexcusable excuse for a human being. Clearly it is possible to be born without a conscience or the concept of decency. Deleted by Moderator
:-)

CmdrKiley15 Jan 2011 10:08 p.m. PST

"Does anyone know of any UK run companies producing plastic wargames figures going through the wringer like this?"

Didn't Mongoose have a bunch of issues with it's supplier who made those Battlefield Evolution minis?

JohnnyBorg15 Jan 2011 10:39 p.m. PST

"If he is so passionate about the company, why did he sell off almost all of his interest in it?"

No doubt. Anyone with a shred of business sense who is passionate about their company would maintain 51% ownership. I don't buy into the plea, sounds like someone is simply pointing the finger of blame.

Johnny

Angel Barracks15 Jan 2011 11:07 p.m. PST

I simply don't understand how people think this is professional.

For the purpose of an example, I am going to assume that most of people that think it is professional have regular day jobs.

Well let us assume that your employer who was less than happy with your work decides to post a letter calling you a scum bag on a public forum and otherwise slagging you off.

That would be ok then, professional even.
You would be happy to see that on the internet?

JR McLennan15 Jan 2011 11:19 p.m. PST

Hi,

Perry, Victrix and Warlord use Renedra – a company based in the UK. This is one reason for the higher prices – higher setup and production costs.

As someone mentioned earlier, to do business with a Chinese company, one has to effectively give control to the Chinese company.

The cost of creating an injection mould in the US (or NZ where I am) would have been astonishingly high. Tony went for the options that kept the prices low and obviously was looking at turnover rather than individual item profit.

A good business model – especially considering how miserly most wargamers are.

Any small business is totally dependent upon trust. In this instance it appears that the trust was somewhat misplaced.

Might I request as an independent observer that people restrict comments to topic – rather than some of the poison we are seeing here. Enlightened debate is healthy. Bigotry, hate mongering and just downright pettiness is not.

To respond to the comment above (which I feel was perhaps made without reading the entire thread) – Tony had plenty of business sense or WF would not have gone as far as it did.

He just lacked a little judgment in the selection of one staff member. A big price to pay for one mistake.

JR McLennan15 Jan 2011 11:24 p.m. PST

@Angelbarracks

You may be right – but sometimes it is about the end result and not the methodology.

Woodward and Bernstein broke the law multiple times – but rightly received the accolades they deserved.

Sometimes the ends DO justify the means.

Time will tell as to whether this is one of them.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11