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"Wargames Factory...dead and gone?" Topic

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RobH12 Jan 2011 3:04 p.m. PST

A couple of interesting comments in this thread from yesterday:

TMP link

I have hunted around but not found any confirmation or public statement on other forums. Interesting (but not at all surprising) if true.

What happens now to the undelivered pre-orders? looks like money down the drain for a lot of us.

Cardinal Ximenez12 Jan 2011 3:12 p.m. PST

His server crashed recently.

Saw it on an earlier post.


RobH12 Jan 2011 3:16 p.m. PST

Don, umm, no. Bit more than that actually.

GR C1712 Jan 2011 3:16 p.m. PST

They responded to someone on their facebook page yesterday that they are still working on getting the server sorted out.

Dr Mathias Fezian12 Jan 2011 3:19 p.m. PST

I hope not, I was looking forward to some of the upcoming releases. I've made good use of the Shock Troops.

aecurtis Fezian12 Jan 2011 3:21 p.m. PST

The FB page seems a little sparse now:


Yes, I know that's not the right one. However, it's the one Tony's FB page links to, and is the one he says he works at.


blucher12 Jan 2011 3:35 p.m. PST

Its under new management now it seems. I dont see any reason not to wish the new team well as long as they honor previous customers orders.

nycjadie12 Jan 2011 3:39 p.m. PST

I hope Tony and Howard get everything sorted out.

combatpainter Fezian12 Jan 2011 3:45 p.m. PST

Under new management. See other thread from yesterday.

aecurtis Fezian12 Jan 2011 3:51 p.m. PST

I suspect there is much more to the story than you can discern from the other thread. I would recommend taking a "wait and see" approach.

Also keep in mind the old military maxim that first reports are always wrong.


Cardinal Ximenez12 Jan 2011 3:54 p.m. PST

Yikes, sorry for the bad info.


Mapleleaf13 Jan 2011 12:21 a.m. PST

This thread shows the value of TMP. I was just getting ready to send off an order but will hold off until the situations clarifies itself.

The money I could have lost is a lot more than what a supporting membership costs

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2011 12:24 a.m. PST

Aw, shoot. I knew I should have asked for a refund on my 6mm Warbot deposit sooner.

sector5113 Jan 2011 12:37 a.m. PST

What happens now to the undelivered pre-orders? looks like money down the drain for a lot of us.

Anyone worth their salt would send the stuff out anyway – even if they took a 'hit' for doing so – the continued business is worth more than some pre-orders.

The real world, they would do that and then sort out who gets what money between them (and not bother us).

But just a quick word of praise for Tony, really great guy to deal with and I would still like to wander over to visit one day.

NigelM13 Jan 2011 5:50 a.m. PST

From the other thread linked by OP

If you currently have an order in house with us we will fill it as soon as possible but please contact Lonnie for details.

Regards13 Jan 2011 7:04 a.m. PST

Thanks TMP. Message sent to Lonnie and Howard as directed (per the WF Forum for the later).


Sane Max13 Jan 2011 7:41 a.m. PST

I spend much of my day working out if a business is a 'goer' or not. I can only repeat my favourite Maxim.

It is too early to speculate, until it's too late to speculate.


Waco Joe13 Jan 2011 8:35 a.m. PST

Odd that this facebook is much more lively:


streetline13 Jan 2011 10:05 a.m. PST

Well that will please a lot the "I hate WF" crowd.

Shame if the company is in trouble, but no sign of that yet. Plenty of companies change ownership without shafting previous customers – it's kinda in their interest.

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2011 11:30 a.m. PST

What can I do to help the company? Lots of good products and previous good service! I really like those WSS figs. Was hoping to base a "Charge" game army on them.

ScoutII13 Jan 2011 12:02 p.m. PST

What can I do to help the company?

Be patient and wait and see.

Entirely speculation, but if you look at their state filings – it looks as though their company was taken over (by force?) by the company that they used to perform their manufacturing. What that will mean for the people who work their? Don't know…most likely the old Wargames Factory staff will be gone and they will switch from being designed in house in MA by Tim to being designed in China at the factory location.

The MA location will likely continue to exist as a face for them (that way there isn't as much "Made in China" backlash). It also makes it easier for them to import products by having a company in the US.

The long term upside would be that you will probably see a much larger influx of "not-" plastic figures as the Chinese company goes after various genres and systems in the US. Since the math changes (Tony no longer will have to raise capital to have the next set of molds made) – the rate of new releases will go up substantially.

GoneNow13 Jan 2011 1:06 p.m. PST

There is certainly something going on with the WF forums.

Binky the Wonder Pig13 Jan 2011 1:11 p.m. PST

When a caterpillar morphs into a butterfly is it now "dead and gone"? I think not. Although I have now disturbed myself with the analogy.

They'll be around for a while I'm sure. So the ownership changed. Big whoop.

Binky says "OINK"

ps. I'm not a WF hater, but I'd love them a lot more if some of my L&U pre-orders ever saw the light of day!

Binky the Wonder Pig13 Jan 2011 1:29 p.m. PST

Maybe the new owners have a thousand monkeys in a room sculpting figures? Just gotta wait for Bill Shakespear……

Binky says "OINK"

Griefbringer13 Jan 2011 2:04 p.m. PST

Just gotta wait for Bill Shakespear……

Multi-part plastic 28 mm model of Shakespeare? I am sure that John the OFM will order at least one of those.


Sysiphus13 Jan 2011 2:11 p.m. PST

If the Chinese take over ownership and continue production, will the plastic figures have a lead content? I wonder grin

headzombie13 Jan 2011 2:40 p.m. PST

You can only perform a hostile takeover on a publicly traded company.
Or, so I always thought.

RobH13 Jan 2011 2:44 p.m. PST

WF forum page is getting quite bitter now, seems posts mentioning ex staff members by name or anything to do with L&U are being deleted.

However on the plus side, I did receive a reply to my "where are my figures?" email within hours of sending it to "Lonnie" at the new address.
First time any of my mails to WF have been answered since Octuber.
Contained an undertaking to honour existing paid but not delivered orders.

Smokey Roan13 Jan 2011 2:50 p.m. PST

"You can only perform a hostile takeover on a publicly traded company."

Not neccesarly. Remind me to tell you some stories about Arkansas in the 90's. :)

ordinarybass13 Jan 2011 3:00 p.m. PST

Interesting Link Metal Guru. It looks like Ghost Studio is in someway involved in WF, ExIllis and the new'ish Battletech Plastics.

ScoutII13 Jan 2011 3:31 p.m. PST

You can only perform a hostile takeover on a publicly traded company.
Or, so I always thought.

Read Faust.

It isn't a true hostile takeover, however it looks like it is a rather impolite takeover.

ThomasS13 Jan 2011 3:51 p.m. PST

Little more than facebook update-guy link

Binky the Wonder Pig13 Jan 2011 3:56 p.m. PST

Oh, it is a real e-mail!

Lonnie is much more than a part timer now. He's a cool guy so don't worry there.

Seriously Ogdenlulimus, Chinese government putting in lead? Well, maybe it makes as much sence as one of my posts of only using grocery store food products to paint my miniatures! What it would be is some cut-rate supplier (who supplies Ghost Stuido) offering them plastic at a really good price, only without telling them of the "Secret added ingrediant". The Chinese government would be the one to hunt this guy down and put a bullet in his head. Look into the "Chinese Tooth Paste" incedint to see what they did there!

Maybe OFM will get his war of Jenkin's ear figs now. Some Chinese companies have a habit of doing some really wierd stuff…….

Binky says "OINK"

Zephyr113 Jan 2011 4:13 p.m. PST

If they ever come out with Female Zombies, I'll be happy enough….

Major William Martin RM13 Jan 2011 4:48 p.m. PST

In the "For What Its Worth" category:

Lonnie is a former GW employee who has been functioning as the Sales Manager for WF's distributors and direct retail customers (brick and mortar stores, not individuals). Whether his work has been full or part time is really irrelevant, as he has held this title and been performing this function for some time now.

It is my understanding (which may or may not be accurate), that the Chinese entity only have the steel molds in their possession and own the rights to them. All WF figures have been created using computer software, not conventional sculpting, and only completed data files for tooling have been forwarded to China. It is my belief that Tim, or perhaps a partnership of Tony and Tim, own the intellectual property rights to the data files. I do know that I still own the copyright to the proposed layout files and rough sprue designs that I submitted for the WSS Cavalry and Artillery. If WF decided to put these into production and contracted me to work with Tim on the final designs, then I would have transferred ownership to WF based on some form of compensation.

Whatever the next announcement will be, or when it will be delivered, should be interesting. It will also be interesting to see whose name is on the next announcement.

Sir William the Aged

Sane Max14 Jan 2011 5:37 a.m. PST

I find it sadly ironic that the thread on their Forum "End of Wargames Factory" is immediately above one called "Death of Games Workshop".


alien BLOODY HELL surfer14 Jan 2011 7:39 a.m. PST

'If they ever come out with Female Zombies, I'll be happy enough….'

with their detail and quality would you be able to tell? heck greenstuff some boobs onto their current zombies and you're done – there's no detail on the faces anyhow, so you can paint them as women.

Much as I never thought much of their products quality wise, not a nice way for things to happen. If it means we'll now get another company making decent,low(ish)cost plastics then great.

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP14 Jan 2011 12:35 p.m. PST

I've never understood the vitriol aimed at Wargames Factory. (Of course, I've never understood why anyone would aim vitriol at any company that makes toy soldiers… but I digress.)

They made/make cheap plastic figures for people who like cheap plastic figures, and decent figures at that, especially for a start-up. And over time, their designs and quality got better with each iteration. Just what one would expect, really. But apparently the hobby is overrun with people who demand that figures be "perfect" according to their individual definitions of perfection, and think that liking one manufacturer of figures (or even several) means that one must despise and ridicule other manufacturers, or, dice forbid, any new companies or lines. huh?

I hope this all gets sorted out and we get some accurate information soon. But I am not encouraged by the rumors that some Chinese plastics company has taken over.

Diadochoi14 Jan 2011 3:27 p.m. PST

WF forums, Lonnie posted earlier today that there would be a press release soon, so hopefully we will have some facts soon.

alien BLOODY HELL surfer14 Jan 2011 5:39 p.m. PST

Parzival, they did get better I agree, but compared to the other plastics out there were still not good – but the ideas were good,and they may have got there which would have been good. I like cheap figures as much as the next person, but the one set I did buy (zombies) were so bad they still sit there untouched. Compare them to the mantic zombies and the detail and sharpness difference is obvious.

aecurtis Fezian15 Jan 2011 6:05 a.m. PST

"To be fair, that was one of, if not the, first sets they put out."

Sorry, but we remember what was first. And second.

"WF forums…"

…are demonstrating the principle that if you provide an opportunity for people to display their cluelessness, they will take full advantage of it. Harping on and on about "shareholders" when referring to an LLC, for heaven's sake.


Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP15 Jan 2011 3:23 p.m. PST

I know a little more than I did before, but I can't offer much out of respect for what might be confidential info. I *do* know that orders are packaged and waiting to be shipped, but can't be due to legal actions taken by others.

Now, I don't know the cause of all this. Maybe the founders of WF signed a bad deal, maybe they got stabbed in the back, maybe they were just bad businessmen and "it's just business" (which is the pathetic excuse of the unethical, but that's another point). But from where I sit, it looks like some guys with a dream are having that dream ripped away from them, and I have a hard time conceiving of that as a good thing.

I'm actually surprised at some of the people here who are apparently crowing over the founders' misfortunes. I don't care what you thought of the figs, or if your pet project didn't hit front-and-center on the L&UL (mine didn't), this event is not something to celebrate. In fact, it stinks.

eptingmike15 Jan 2011 4:02 p.m. PST

Totally agree with your post. I have had a handful of dealings with Tony and he was nothing but fantastic. I enjoy the figures(all of them, even the pudgy Romans)and am saddened by the possibility of WF changing especially if it means the original crew are forced out.

LeadLair7615 Jan 2011 6:16 p.m. PST

I am a little shocked. I never bought anything from WF and I did not like their figures but I do respect people getting together to chase their dreams and make something that made a lot of people happy.

I have no idea what really went down but I hope Tony and everyone else get things sorted out and whatever the outcome can move on and lead a happy and productive life.

The Rhino15 Jan 2011 6:52 p.m. PST

I honestly thought they were cleaning up financially so this is a real shock.

Best of luck to all the parties involved.

Kilkrazy17 Jan 2011 3:30 a.m. PST

Limited liability companies have shares. They are the means by which the owners of the company have ownership.

Depending on the articles of the company, there may be unissued shares and these may or may not be issued after formation.

The shares may not be traded on the stock market. That is the difference between an LLC and a PLC.

Supposing WF was formed with 1,000 shares, 100 shares were sold at the start of the company, and Tony took 41 shares. The rest of the shares are not issued.

Later the directors do a deal with the Chinese, and issue and sell them 900 shares.

Tony's share of the company falls from 41% to 4.1%.

That is my educated guesswork.

1815Guy17 Jan 2011 4:14 a.m. PST

Bet its the banks behind it all! Hang the lot of em I say.

The Real Chris17 Jan 2011 5:33 a.m. PST

So – how to get back the downpayment money for the 6mm warbots?

GeoffQRF17 Jan 2011 6:15 a.m. PST

Limited liability companies have shares

You sure you're not confusing them with a Limited company (which is not publically traded, but has shares). The LLC is the US equivalent of an LLP in the UK – its a partnership, with limited liability so protection on liability for the partners, but no shareholders per se.

spacehulker17 Jan 2011 10:11 a.m. PST

They also posted this on their website, so looks like its going to get interesting……….

There is much misinformation as well as some serious allegations being circulated throughout cyberspace regarding the current state of affairs. As the new corporate manager of Wargames Factory, at the appropriate time, I will address all of the false and inaccurate statements and allegations that are being posted on the Wargames Factory website. There are more important and pressing operational matters to deal with right now without getting distracted or involved in a "mudslinging match" with previous management. Defamatory statements made about any individuals will be taken up with legal counsel and dealt with to the fullest extent allowed by law.

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