"Legio Heroica Releases Imperial Army" Topic

These look fabulous.

very nice indeed

Nice figs and a stunning paint job! Only problem is an historical inaccuracy with the infantry. They were not using musket rests in the 1680s. In fact, they were rapidly being phased out decades before.

Thunder Weevil, many thanks for your comment. I did think exactly like you, but then following the Topic about Austrian and German uniforms at Vienna I've discovered so many informations and illustrations (like the one from Friedrich W. "Die Uniformen der Kurfürstlich Sächsischen Armee 1683-1763" where you can see three saxon infantrymen all with the rest)that have forced me to change my mind…….
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Cut 'em off, paint them and play them….

Those are gorgeous, Guiseppe. I love your figures.

Those represent boar spears, schweinfeder, not 30YW musket rests. They are poorly executed in the illustration. They should be taller than the men, and the hook should be lower on the shaft. They could be used as rests if need be, but were primarily used in the chevaux de frise.

"Those represent boar spears, schweinfeder, not 30YW musket rests."

yep, i'm afraid so, and they were only used by the saxon contingent at the battle of vienna, because the saxons had dropped the pike and were afraid that their musketeers would get overrun by turkish cavalry.

the swinefeathers had a big spike on the top, and they would be set up like stakes, with the spiky part sticking out at an angle, so the horse can impale itself on them…. there would be no point (literally!!!) in having a swinefeather pointing straight up.

so these models can really only be used by the relatively small saxon contingent, and even then they should have swinefeathers with a spike at the top and sticking out at an angle, not musket rests. no one used musket rests in 1683……

"Cut 'em off, paint them and play them…." that doesn't look like a solution because they musket rest is really on there, and worse the man is holding the musket's rest, not the musket. the sculpting is not bad but these are a miss for me, too bad….

The Saxons were probably not the only ones using schweinfeder. Karl Staudinger, "Geschichte der kurbayerischen Heeres, Vol II-1", indicates that the Bavarians introduced the schweinfeder in 1686 after seeing their use by the Austrians at Vienna. Robert Hall, "Imperial Austrian Army 1683-1720", indicates that the Austrians started to use the schweinfeder in 1683, especially against the Turks where firepower was needed and the Turks had no respect for pikes. Schweinfeder may also have been in use by some of the Imperial Kreis units.

saxons are the only contingent listed as being generally equipped with the swinefeather. other uses of it were more anecdotal, because many other forces still had pikes in their units. anyway, these are not swinefeathers at all, they are musket rests……..

Guys, just to cut the story short in the simplest way: if my figures can be wrong for you don't buy them!!!
But now, I start wondering who will go to tell the "boys" at the Figure-Museum in Katzelsdorf (Wien) that their huge diorama of the siege of Vienna could be full of wrong figures….
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@Heinz – Arrogant, condescending, dismissive and insulting in one neat package. Well done. If Studinger and Hall are anecdotal, what may are I ask are the non-anecdotal sources that support your argument? Your opinion is fine, but it is my no means authoritative. Keep in mind, the use of the pike does not preclude the use of schweinfeder by musketeers.
@ BepBarb – They are your figures design them as you wish, but personally I would not have relied on a TMP discussion; an incorrect reading of an illustration; and a 30+ year old diorama using figures designed and engraved even earlier as the basis for a figure. Did you ever stop to think that maybe the engraver of the flat figures made the same mistake you did and mistook the schweinfeder for a musket rest? I would think more research would have been in order.

My dear 9th Maine, I respect your authority on the subject, but I've a pair of observations to offer you:
1) The only books in which I blindly believe are the four Gospel. Expecially when we talk about a transictional time in armaments and/or equipments like was the Vienna's one, I prefer to believe not to anyone who firmly declares "from this day that was in use and that wasn't more"; Just to furnish a practical example about it (that can be verified without problems) the modern U.S and all the western armies (included the italian one) officially start to adopt the PASGT helmet from the mid-1980's, but the italian army still used the WWII helmets too at least till the mid-1990's….
2) on the "practical side" then, the fact is not that the figures design is mine so I can do it like I want: I see very often that someone forgets that we're talking about wargames miniatures in a 15mm scale, not of collectors figures in 54/75/120mm. I'm myself a wargamer since the year 1980 and for me the very important thing's always be to have a figure well proportionate, well sculpted, with clear details to be painted easily, and enough resistant to get not broken while I play with it. I tell it by myself that on my figures even the number of the buttons on the coats is not correct, but, in the end, who's care? Have you read any observation about it? They're just wargames figures in 15mm and their first aim is to be used to simulate a particular kind of troop on the wargame table, not to win a prize in a model soldiers collectors' contest. Just as example, a couple of years ago I've seen in an Impetus Tournaments a gamer that did play using a roman army that in reality was a Zulu one!!! He simply explained to his adversaries what every unit on the table represented and played like this.
Not less important then, is the fact that to cast a 15mm figure the Physics and the casting rules have to be considerated, and I can assure you that in this scale is already difficult to cast the pole of the musket rest if you want it of acceptable proportions. Even on the Osprey's campaigs volume on the siege of Vienna there's an illustration of an Imperial soldier with the swedish feather, but unless I sculpt a telegraph pole (and wargamers don't want to have figures with arms and/or equipments that resemble telegraph poles…), how can cast it on a 15mm firing figures? I could even do it, but you'll have a very brittle thing that will get broken in a very short time if you want use them to play. So, to definitely close the story, this is how the things are and I won't explain it anymore. The range's just begun, new codes will be added if you'll have the patience to wait for them, so if you think that these figures aren't good for you, simply don't buy them.
Thanks for reading.