"Austrian and German uniforms for the siege of Vienna 1683" Topic

Hi all, I am collecting the forces for the siege of Vienna 1683. I have info on Polish and Turkish uniforms/dress but am struggleing to find info on the Imperial forces. I would be most grateful for any information or if anyone can suggest books that I may aquire with the relevant info. Thanks in advance for any feed back, best wishes…CH.

Western European armies tended to look much alike in this period. You can see some illustrations of Austrian infantry in the Osprey Campaign book Vienna 1683.

Hi Glengarry5, thanks for your response, I have the Osprey you mentioned and all the others that cover the period, it was the uniform colours that I was unsure about. I have pretty much decided to go with white for the Austrians but was unsure if the Baverians had adopted their traditional blue at this time and I havn't a clue about the other German forces. Thanks again for response, all the best CH.

Perhaps this CD could help ?

1-74820 Hall, Robert and Boeri, Giancarlo UNIFORMS AND FLAGS OF THE IMPERIAL AUSTRIAN ARMY 1683-1720 CD with 260+ pages and (56) color plates. This is a completely new revision and update of the Kuhnbooklet with all 'new' plates.1 vol, 1 pgs 2009 US, DAN SCHORR. NEW-CD ……$45.00.

Seller: On Military Matters.
The British Pike & Shot Society once sold the printed versions of those CD's, of which I have those of the French Army. Expensive, but very good.

TMP link

I seem to recall, from when I was last looking into the period, that the Imperial infantry were still in grey.

I think buff is a pretty safe bet for the Saxon cuirassiers in 1683. If the Saxon cuirassiers were wearing it in 1700, most likely they were also wearing it in 1683. In some sense it's the default coat for European heavy cavalry in the last half of the 17th century.

From Dan Schorr, NOTES ON THE SAXON ARMY 1700-1716

Coat: From the beginning, Saxon cuirassier wore a buff-leather koller, for want of a better term a buff coat. There were no buttons. The koller was fastened with hooks and eyes. At least initially, there were no cuffs in facing colors on the koller. Overtime, trim in the facing color or small cuffs in the facing color, may have appeared but without buttons, and even the edges of the coat skirts may have been edged in the facing color. In 1707, the red coat was officially adopted, along with regimental facing colors; however, this probably only confirmed what had already been practice. The red coat could be worn separately or over the koller. A contemporary Swedish painting of the Crossing of the Düna in July 1701, executed in 1707, shows what is probably the Königin Cuirassier Regiment in red coats with facing colors on the cuffs and coat lining. The coat skirts are also turned back. Nevertheless, the buff-leather koller continued to be worn on campaign through the end of Friedrich August's reign.
Buttons: either white (pewter) or yellow (brass).
Cuirass: polished metal or blackened with brass fittings and edged in red or possibly the facing color. It is not known if the Other Ranks wore just the front plate, or the full cuirass. The cuirass was worn over the koller but under the red coat.
Kamisol: red worn with the leather koller, but in the facing collar with the red coat.
Breeches: buff leather.
Gauntlets: buff leather.
Belts: buff leather.
Cartridge Box: buff or natural leather.
Boots: black leather.
Headgear: A black hat with white or yellow trim in the button color and possibly a white
cockade on the left side. The tricorne was eventually adopted, but probably not until
around 1707.
Scabbard: brown leather with white metal fittings.
Neckcloth: white or black.
Saddlecloth and Pistol Covers: either solid red or red trimmed in the button color. In general, the trim was white, and had a different colored inner stripe that varied from
regiment to regiment. This inner stripe was usually straight, but could be wavy. Only the schabraque of the Leibregiment is known and is shown on the color plates.
Mantel: probably red.

Hi all, first of all let me apologise for not thanking everyone much sooner but I have been on night shift and it really messes my head up, so sorry to all. Second thanks to everyone for some great feed back but especially to Killerkatanas and to Delbruck for some great information. Best of wishes to you all, cheers..CH.

Brian,

Can I ask what you are using for the Saxon OB for the relief of Vienna?

Also, the Saxon Leibregiment had blue facings until 1693/94.

link has a Saxon orbat.

Friedrich's "Die Uniformen der Kurfürstlich Sächsischen Armee: 1683-1763" has the Leibregiment wearing white facings already in 1683.

Daniel,

I realize that, but I have contemporary sources which clearly show blue facings. Friedrich's illustration is mislabeled. should be 1693 not 1683. One of the sources is at link

2nd page under infantry and SAX. The first unit Chursax Leib Regt Roth und Blau. Your right, it did change from blue to white in 1693 which coincided with the name change from Leibregiment to Leibgarde zu Fuss. I've also corresponded with Hr. Friedrich on this issue. Get off your high horse. Books like Friedrich's do contain errors. They are not infallible.

Mr Herder and others

Can you please Provide some details in regards to units on the Ottoman side? My interest lays more firmly in the early 18thC but I suspect most of the irregular forces would be uniformed (I use the term loosely) and equipped in a very similar fashion to the earlier war.

salut

Here are some illustrations of Ottomans:

Pictures of Ottoman soldiers from the Ralamb Costume Book, 1657
'The present state of the Ottoman Empire' by Sir Paul Rycaut, 1667
Caspar Luyken Prints from Abraham a Sancta Clara's 'Neu-eröffnete Welt-Galleria', 1703
Prints of Ottomans after Jean-Baptiste Vanmour, 1699-1708

MIRROR SITES
Pictures of Ottoman soldiers from the Ralamb Costume Book, 1657
'The present state of the Ottoman Empire' by Sir Paul Rycaut, 1667
Caspar Luyken Prints from Abraham a Sancta Clara's 'Neu-eröffnete Welt-Galleria', 1703
Prints of Ottomans after Jean-Baptiste Vanmour, 1699-1708

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Having a grey coat does not exclude the troopers from having a wool coat as well. Swedish cavalry of the same time period had both a buff coat as well as a wool coat that was large enough to be worn over the buff coat. The Danes were similarly equipped.

But since it is Tessin who is the source one does well to be carefull. It is more than once that he refers to documents that no one else can find or that the information he provides can not be found in the archive file in question. In this case the document existing in the Swedish War Archive and I'll check out the content next time I visit.

In addition, buff has a range of shades that include drab and light (brownish) grey.

One question that hasn't been answered – did Saxon cuirassiers have helmets at this time?

From: Thadden, Franz Lorenz von: Uniformen in Wien 1683, in: Die Zinnfigur 1975/7, 8
Coats: grey

regiment – sleeves – waistcoat – scarf – buttons – stockings

Ernst Rüdiger v. Starhemberg – red – red – red – white – grey, red stripes

Graf Heinrich v. Mansfeld – blue – brown – red – white – grey

Scherffenberg – blue – brown – red – ? – grey?

de Souches – grey – brown – white – yellow – red

Neuberg – blue – brown – red – white – white, blue stripes

Heister – red – brown – white – white – green

Württemberg – grey – brown – red – white – grey

Beck – red – brown or grey – white – white – light red

I don't know, why Thadden has "sleeves".

Could he be refering to the cuffs which would be turned up to show the colour of the lining? Which German word does he use?

It is "Ärmel" (sleeves), not "Aufschläge" (cuffs) or "Abzeichen" (facings). Perhaps cuffs turned very high up on the sleeve? Unfortunately I have made no note of his source (if there is given any).
I've go a few flat figures "1683" with shortened sleeves though.