"Jeff Valent Studios Now Stocking ProCreate Sculpting Putty" Topic

So are we going to click on Workbenches to see the "new Grays" now?

Anybody else find it funny this stuff is called ProCreate?

I didn't name it……. I just supply it

:)

Jeff

Is that for real? What were they thinking at the naming committee?

Love it.

Jeff,

My question is the stuff nontoxic, i.e. can you use spit to lubricate your tools without getting a foul taste in you mouth.

Mumwump

Yes, It is. I have been using it for the past 6 months with no troubles.

Have you tried mixing it with green stuff?

It mixes well with all the putties butthe best thing about this is that you don't need to as it has the properties of both Green and Brown.

Jeff

Will it stick to soft plastic figures if they are properly scrubbed with detergent to remove the mold release agent ? I'm looking to convert some 1/72 scale WW II soft plastic figures and need to add certain basic details to the front jackets, like lapels and pockets. I was thinking of applying a thin coat of putty to the figure, then sculpting the details.
Thanks for any information !

I would think so but could not tell you for sure.

Jeff

Interesting question. I've just mixed up a little and added it to a Esci zulu. It sticks on quite well, even without cleaning the surface. Sculpting was no problem.

Thing is of course that polyethylene is very resistant to anything glue-like, so it's likely it's just stuck on the surface. I'll see how well set the thingy is tomorrow after curing (mail me if I forget).

As to the name, well, Bob asked around and this is the name that somehow stuck. Combination of professional and creation, pro – creation and the other thing. I quite liked it. :)

As to the toxity, no problems here either after several months. I expect it is similar to GS. I.e. mild though people with an epoxy allergy may react on it. Not poisonous though ingestion should be avoided (i.e. stop licking your tools. :) ).

For more info: we just dicussed the material over at Wyrd: link

Bye, Ming-Hua

I'll have to pick up a batch of it.

So where is this putty made? When I saw the picture of the bars it reminded me of an epoxy putty I tried years ago made for plumbing use ( they all were at one time) it was the same gray color and thge same bar shape. It was a favorite of John Dennit and thats where I herd of it..but the name escapes me. I found it to be very sloppy in the beginning, a 30 min window of good working time and then just to hard to work. I curious if its the same stuff or not.

Ming-Hua can you get me in touch with Bob, Ive not spoke to him since he left Polymeric.

Jeff Wilhelm

I knew Id think of it, it reminds me of the Putty made by Atlas link

Sounds like the grey stuff that Amazon Miniatures has been selling, right down to "very sloppy in the beginning, a 30 min window of good working time and then just to hard to work". Must say I like it.

Tony
ERM/Platoon 20

I've been asked to distribute it in the UK, I've asked for some samples first as I hadn't heard of it…

Hmmm will have to give it a go.

Jeremey
germy.co.uk

@Jeff: It's made in the US by Bob's company and I'll forward your message to Bob when I'm home. As to the grey putty you mentioned, it's not the same. This putty has been specially designed for miniature sculpting over the last year or so.

@Tony: it's not "grey matter" either. Lots of differences. It doesn't take 45 minutes to become workable and I don't have painfully itchy hands for three hours afterwards. (Sorry, I tested GM for 1listsculpting and I've had very bad experiences with it. So I don't like it at all.) :)

For short, this really is a NEW putty that has never been released before. Not even for non-sculpting purposes.

@Heresy: not sure who's mailing under the alias but that sample of grey putty I give to Andy at Salute is procreate (test batch 3 actually). Anyway, I'm sure Bob will send some samples when you ask for it.

@PeterH: did a quick check this morning and it's as I suspected. After curing the putty sticks on the plastic figure but it doesn't take much to remove it. So used like that it may not be suitable for gaming figures. Still, the adhesion in it's soft state makes that it's very good for sculpting on the figure. So you could experiment with making sure the material can anchor itself (cut/melt some groves/holes in the figure) or by covering the whole with a protective layer of varnish/PVA glue it could have it's purposes.

(There's only me under the name Heresy, Ming! ~Andy)
Is the sample the same as the final product?

More info: I posted this at Frother's and thought you might be interested too:

Now, info on pro-create. This putty is made in the US and has been developed with the help of miniature sculptors. That is, during the development samples with different formulations have been send to several sculptors worldwide which included people like Jeff Valent, Werner Klocke, Stefan Nieheus, Chaz Elliott and other profesionals (oh, and an amateur: me ) which have been giving comments to finetune it. Mouldmaking was also tested (succesfully)

The putty which is easiest to describe by comparing it to Green stuff.
- Colour: black and grey components. The mix is grey. Interesting is that changes in ratio do not affect the colour that much so the finish is more even than a GS where different rations have been used. I find this colour easier for seeing details than GS. And a lot better than brown stuff. Photographing also works fine.
- Feel: similar to GS but softer and stickier at the start. It has no memory effect but still has enough cohesion to use push and pull techniques like you do with GS. Fine sharp details are taken quite easily. The feel can be changed from soft to somewhat rubbery by changing the mixing ratios. This also affects the final hardness after curing. This can go from slightly rubbery like with GS to a hardness close to Brown stuff.
- Curing: curing time can be increased and descreased by heat and cold like with GS. Putty oven can be used ok. Slight brownish discolouration can occur if heated for a long time. Worktime can be varied by changing the mix rations. At the moment I'm using a 65/35 white to black to grey ratio at a room temperature of about 28 centigrade (we're having the hottest month of June in the Dutch recorded weather history) and have a worktime of over two hours.
- Dry sculpting: cutting and sawing are no problem. Sanding, filling can be done but will leave a colour difference on the surface. This can be removed using fine sandpaper though.

For more info, it's also discussed here:
link
TMP link and

procreate.de shows some samples of figures made with it by Stefan Nieheus.

My opinion, good putty. Like the colour and lack of memory. Right now I'm already so used to it that I can use it straight after mixing. I will probably switch to it after I run out of GS. Depending on avialability.

Addition:
- Material does have a learning curve.

@Tony: forgot to mention it. The sloppiness at the start is not like with grey matter which is for me much too soft to work with at the start. Procreate is soft after mixing but I can actually use it straight away.

Hi Andy,

I'm at work so I can't check the mails I have on the subject but from what I remember batch 3 (which you have) is the formula that became the production version.

Bye, Ming-Hua

I think I will see what you blokes think of it and will stick to green and brown stuff for the moment

Thanks for the clarifications. It does sound interesting, though whether I'll ever persuade Jim Bowen to try it (instead of green stuff) is another matter entirely!

I'll look forward to trying it myself sometime though.

Tony
ERM/Platoon 20

Thanks Minimaker for the ESCI experiment and posting your findings. Based on your observations, I think it just might work if the figure is coated with varnish after being painted. Can you coat with PVA/water then varnish with Testors' matt spray ? I don't anticipate a negative reaction between the two but I don't think I've ever actually tried it – anyone know ?

I can't see how not having a memory is a good thing, the memory of Kneadatite is what allows many of it's most valuable effects. When Polymeric systems asked me some years ago how they could improve Kneadatite for sculptors I said longer or ideally controllable cure rate and better shelf life were all I could think of. They actually asked about removing the memory effect and I said, don't do that, it's one of the most useful features.

I like to try anything new in the way of materials, though I have to say I can't understand why some are so widely used, like the brown polymeric systems epoxy or Milliput which seem to me valuable for only a few special situations. I looking forward to trying some of this new epoxy. Is anyone going to bring it to Gencon?

@PeterH: you're welcome.

@TMeier: I've forwarded the question on Gencon and I'll let you know.

As to the memory effect, the feel of GS is also present in this material but it's a little softer. The material does not try to snap back like GS does to a certain extend. So edges end up sharper and surfaces even. The material stays where you put it. On the other hand the material is still coherent enough to give you feedback and to push and pull without snapping and smearing like Milliput would. I can work with it like with GS but use less force.

As to brown stuff and Milliput, the most common reasons people give are:
Brown: easier to make sharpe edges. It has less memory and can be filled, carved, scraped and sanded well after curing.
Milliput: can be easily filled, scraped, sanded, etc. after curing. I notice that a lot of larger scale sculptors use this. Probably since they like to carve and the material is cheaper.

In the end it's all personal preference if it comes to what you use. I'm definitely in the GS/procreate corner unless I do something totally mechanical.

@PeterH. Here is a suggestion from the chemist of Kraftmark (the maker of Procreate):

I would recommend that you "rough" the polyethylene surface with an abrasive substance, such as sandpaper, before applying he ProCreate to it. Next, clean it with a mild solvent, such as isopropyl alcohol.

Let us know how it works out.

Me again with some more replies:

@Heresy: on the difference between batch 3 and the production sample:
Same formula but since this was the first production batch there could be slight variations in consistency. We try not to make the putty too stiff and difficult to mix. In fact we try to err on the side of being slightly too soft since we know that it will ultimately get stiffer after mixing.
They will send out samples to you this week.

@TMeier: Tim Mayer, the technical manager will go to Gencon and he'll be bringing pro-create. I'll see if I can arrange him to go to the sculptor's meet so you know where to find him.

to add to the news. Procreate will be available at the Reaper booth during Gencon.

On the softness of procreate: Is it more like magicsculp in consistency right after mixing? I've ordered some but in the meantime I've tried out a mix of two parts white (from brown stuff) to one part of the filler from magic sculp. Still use green for the bulk. This white mix I've only used for making badger teeth and a katana right now :-) (A silly joke caused me to start work on a japanese badger assasin…)From what I gather this mix compares fairly well to the description you give of procreate. Package should arrive this week so I'll see how they compare.

Hey, another badger sculptor? You must be from the forum of Doom then. ;)

Pro-create is actually stiffer and more coherent than Magic sculpt after mixing.

Oh, from badger sculptor to badger sculptor: Do note that Japanese badgers look a little different from Eurasian ones. You could also be interested in seeing some of the Japanese Folklore story pictures of mythical badgers. There are some stories attached to them in Japan.

Hey, it's me – Alf. "Bodhi" was to short for TMP so I had to pick another one but stuck to buddhist connotations. Since it's an antropomorphic badger it will be to large for a real badger anyway (more dwarfsized)and not extremely realistic. But seeing folkloric pictures sure would be interesting.
Anyway it's just a fun figure and I'll be happy if it looks vaguely Sohei/Samurai/Ninja like somehow. Not to bothered with accuracy ;-)

Hi Alf. Looking forward to seeing it.