"Stargate: Loved the Movie, Sort of Like the Show" Topic

I thought the movie was brilliant and full of potential for sequels (or tv episodes) based on Abydos (the planet they found then).

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However, I find the SG-1 episodes sort of hit and miss. Among some of my missgivings is that I think that a lot could have been done with Abydos before introducing other species and worlds. Did the writers forget why people liked the movie in the first place?

Am I the only one feeling like this?

CC

The movie was and is FANTASTIC. I've yet to see a complete episode of 'SG-1', but actress Amanda Tapping has certainly attracted my attention. ;-)

As an aside, it's a shame that a certain company no longer produces those 28mm "Fantasy Egyptians". I "woulda-coulda-shoulda" bought some when they were available.

*snaps fingers*

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You and me both. What a loss to gamers everywhere.

CC

CC, feel the same way. I enjoyed the movie to death, but can't make it through an episode of the series.

I wasn't that fond of the Movie. But I love the Series. I think the idea works better as a TV series where they have more time to lay and explore the various ideas.

I actually like the spin-off, Atlantis, more than SG1. But thats just me.

Interesting to hear the reverse, Nero. What I may not like fully others will love. Point taken.

I think that, among many things unique to the movie, the early Egyptian focus is what drew me in. I also liked the fact that the inhabitants of Abydos did not automatically speak English. The big beast of burden was a hoot.

CC

I've enjoyed both – but I think the series needs a little more larger-unit military action. All the grunts get to do, for the most part, is stare and point guns at the gate.

The fight over Antarctica was awesome.

I with Nero to some degree. I've seen the movie several times, at first it didn't thrill me at all. I liked the Egyptian focus and the idea of a wormhole connecting Earth to other planets but after that I found the movie so so. It did grow on me despite some wooden acting, Curt Russell playing "Snake" Pliskin in Space! Spare me! ;-)

Yes, the TV show has its acting problems too, who thought it would be a good idea to have Richard Dean Anderson play the "Pliskin" part as a slightly dazed, backtalking, one sandwich short of a picnic Colonel in the Air Force? Give me a break! I do like the Amanda Tapping character and the new Daniel Jackson actor.

The TV show took the potential the movie had and went with it. The star gates gave the show ways to create weekly stories and they did. Some episodes were great, some, ho-hum, and a few were silly. But that is the bane of a lot of weekly shows. Sometimes you just do not have that great episode appear, ready to be filmed, and sent to the network.

I also enjoy both.

I didn't really enjoy the series very much when I jsut watched a random episode here and there, but when I finally got around to starting at the beginning and watching them all in order it was more enjoyable.

There are many episodes I didn't like, but the overall story was enjoyable for me.

It was sad to see how quickly the advanced technology of the Gould so quickly became less effective in the show. At first it was very dangerous, the armor was nearly impervious to Earth weapons, etc.. but later they can't hit a thing with their staff weapons and a short burst from a P90 is enough to take out the armored Jaffa..

Oh well..
Good show though.

Interesting:

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CC

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Differences between Stargate and SG-1

In the Stargate film, Ra is the last of his race, which is a humanoid species resembling the traditional "alien" look, with large black eyes and a lack of facial features. In SG-1, Ra is one of many "Goa'uld System Lords," who are parasitic snakes.

In the film, Ra inhabited a human's body by possessing the human with his soul, rather than being a parasitic snake who takes over a human host by physical possession as in SG-1.

In the film, the humanoid Ra took possession of a human as a way to extend his life, after searching the galaxy for such a means. In SG-1, the Goa'uld (being parasites) infect humanoid hosts on a regular basis, infestation being a regular part of a parasite's life.

In the film, the Stargate resides in a military facility located in Creek Mountain. In SG-1, the Stargate is in the Cheyenne Mountain military complex.

There are many differences between the film's stargate and the stargate in SG-1.

The chevrons in the Stargate film do not glow as they do in the series.

The top chevron on the film's Stargate is different aesthetically than the rest of its chevrons. In SG-1, all the chevrons on a stargate are visually identical.
In the film, to "lock" in a stargate symbol, each chevron "pops" or "clamps" the symbol in question to dial it. In SG-1, only the top chevron "pops" when dialing an address, while the other chevrons merely light up and do not clamp.

The symbols on the film's gate are engraved into the surface of the Stargate. In SG-1's universe, the symbols protrude from the gates' surface.

In the movie each stargate has a unique set of 39 symbols, but in the series each gate has the same 38 symbols minus a single point of origin symbol that is unique to that individual gate.

The ring transporters in the film consist of nine rings; in SG-1, only five are ever used.

In the film, the planet Abydos resides millions of lightyears away in an entirely different galaxy. In SG-1, Abydos is the closest planet to Earth that has a stargate, residing in the same galaxy as Earth. Also in SG-1, stargate travel is limited to the stargate network in the Milky Way galaxy (unless a tremendous amount of power is used to lengthen the subspace wormhole of a stargate to another galaxy's stargate).

In Stargate, Kurt Russell's character is named Jonathan "Jack" O'Neil. In the television series, Richard Dean Anderson's character is named Jack O'Neill (with two L's).

In the film, French Stewart's character is named Louis Feretti. In SG-1, Brent Stait's character is named Louis Ferretti (with two R's).

In Stargate, the name of O'Neil's deceased son is Tyler. In the television series, O'Neill's deceased son is named Charlie.

In the film, Ra (being the last of his kind) is the only Egyptian god who was actually a "god." The other gods (such as Horus and Anubis) are humans trained to serve Ra and to pose as gods to the populace. In SG-1, the other Egyptian gods, including Anubis (and gods of various other religions) are other members of Ra's species.

There are no Jaffa in the film. Ra's guards are humans trained to serve Ra and to pose as the other Egyptian gods to the enslaved populace.

In the film, Daniel Jackson's wife is named Sha'uri. In SG-1, her name is Sha're.

The Stargate on Abydos in the film is deep within the center of the pyramid, down a ramp from the main atrium room with pillars. In SG-1, the Stargate and transporter rings are positioned in the main atrium with the pillars rather than deep inside the pyramid.

The udajeets in the film have open cockpits. The "Death Gliders" (which are supposed to be the same vehicles as the udajeets) in SG-1 possess closed cockpits.

What blows is the Stargate program is likely to be shut down.
msnbc.msn.com/id/14070502

I think you got it backwards. They've got to move NORAD out to make space to EXPAND SGC operations…

I like the series and the movie.

I never got used to the idea of SG-1 being sent on missions. The only expendable member of the team was Colonel O'Neil. Everyone else would have been kept at Stargate command as consultants while the red shirts were sent through the gate.

The Gouald were a bunch of yahoos that would have went extinct eons ago based on the way they conducted their military campaigns. Why they did not shut down, destroy or garrison the stargates is a mystery to me. Put a bounty on the SG teams and watch them get whacked left and right by the locals. Jaffa kill teams continuously on patrol going from gate to gate looking for SG teams.

SG Kill Teams constantly on patrol looking for Jaffa…see, now *there's* a direction for the series!

In case anyone one missed it, a Stargate Cargo Shuttle model will be out late October. not sure on the scale(1/35?) but it is expensive at $149.99 USD

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Yah, I agree, the movie was much better. The show just went the same old ho-hum bublegum problem of the week trek style storytelling.

Thanks, Cacique Caribe for that list of differences. I actually don't mind the change from grey alien who sends his soul out to the parasite bit. That part works just fine for me as I never really liked the grey image, too obviously anthrocentric, without any cool bits. And Jaffa, other Go'uald "gods", armored udajeets are fine too. In the end the story does need fleshing out to expand into a series.

What just doesn't work is the "valuable personell risk life and limb on suicide missions that grunts should be doing, finding technobable solutions to the problem of the week, on 'alien planets' that all look like british columbia" formula. When there's a prefectly good "secret war" MILSCIFI show waiting to be filmed in the vein of Space: Above and Beyond and Tour of Duty.

Thanks for the list CC. I was a great fan of the movie, but a much bigger fan of the TV show. Your list helps me see just how lame and undeveloped Devlin's movie idea was. The show has put real meat on the very bare bones of a great story vehicle. To travel through space without spaceships (at least until reciently) has been the great advantage to imaginative story telling. I am not such a fan as to not see stronger and weaker shows along the way, but that is eposodic television. The crank is going to show through on any series that lasts 10 seasons. Viewing the show on DVD (Atlantis also) really helped pull me from liker to lover of the SG world. The series got back to Abydos several times, and wrapped one of the most dramatic episodes there. I know and understand the hows and whys of the many differences you list. I like the change. It will be interesting to see if Devlin gets his pitch to continue the movie before the crew at Bridge Studio gets at it.

Yes it would be nice to see how Devlin intended to continue the story, but after 10 seasons of TV it might just be a bit late to do it!

Loved the movie, hated the show.

The show could have been so much more, if they had just cut all the inane filler episodes and only kept the key eps.

It was infuriating to watch. You dredge through 2-5 crap episodes and are just about ready to throw in the towel when they put in an ep that actually has something to do with the bigger plotline, then it's back to the useless fillers again until…

Loved the movie, hated the show.

I liked a lot that the movie offered. The Egyptian theme, the Van Daniken-ist concept. But best of all, the humans end up on another planet. And they CAN'T speak the language!

My god, realism…..

When is SG1 they landed on the next planet and they all spoke English, I knew it was crap.

Cheers,
JohnG

Hi

I guess I am out of touch and wrong then.

I HATED the movie. The "soul transferance" bit is just magic. The "vonDanikan" aspects really offended me. I spent too many years dealing with the mystic wing nuts around me insisting that "We" were covering this up. The science was non-existant. The military ops types did not act either military or trained in any way. While I was an antrhopolgist by training, this anthropolgist as "holder of secret facts and hero" was just too much!

In the series. Well, the first year, the series tried to carry the "touchy feely drum circle in the park" approach and it still sucked. But eventually they actually had the military acting military. And episodes that told the story instead of preaching about the superiority of every alien and how we might be like them.

Oh, as for the idea of "redshirts". My exposure to ops teams might be different from yours. I have personally known "rank heavy/expertise heavy" teams exactly like SG1. But if I told you that story………..

So, I eagerly look forward to the episodes where I wouldn't watch the movie free on broadcast TV.

Rocky

Personally, I thought the original film was ok, but I was a little "underwhelmed". It had some great ideas, but I felt like they really didn't get developed enough to really make it engaging to me.

I was also lukewarm on the series for the first season or two, but I felt like they really did develop the SG Universe significantly. As the background got richer, I grew more fond of it and by now it has become one of my favorite sci-fi series. If I made a top ten list, I think it would come in at number 5 or 6.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that neither the film nor the series really grabbed me at first, but in the long run the series has grown on me and I have certainly enjoyed episodes of the series more than the original film.

@ Rocky Russo

I would love to hear that story…

Tiulk
The only consultant available on Gouald methods and strategy at least early in the series. You cannot convince me Stargate Command would have allowed him to go on missions. He would have been kept in the command center to offer expert advice for all the SG teams via communications.

Daniel Jackson
The resident expert on dead languages and ancient cultures. Most of what he does would not require him to leave a desk. A camera attached to some private would be sufficent sending images back through the gate. If they really needed him he would be sent in after the area was secure. Dr Jackson would be kept next to Tiulk ready to support all the SG teams.

Samantha Carter
The technology expert on just about everything. There is no way they are going to let her catch a random staff blast on some mud ball of a planet. She would spend most of her time in the lab. If she were sent off world it would be after the area was secure.

Jack Oneil
What can we say about Jack that makes him not replaceable?

How interesting would a TV series be if you kept having to take the information back to the SGC?

How many cast members would you need?

By putting all the important dramatic voices on the team, you cut costs and move the story more quickly.

It's the same reason why the Landing Party almost always includes Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. A trillion-dollar starship, and a crew of 400+, whose job is to deliver the Big Three to a planet where they'll do all the Real Work. ;)

Besides, think about the way that the military obsessively trains people: even if it weren't O'Neill, Carter, Jackson, and Tel'c; it would be an officer, a technical expert, a contact expert, and a security/Goauld expert, with a couple of emergency extraction teams standing by at the SGC.

Finally, as to Jaffa kill teams: you have to find the SG teams to kill them. The Gates weren't a Goauld invention, and they never managed to catalog them all. Add in the in-fighting between the System Lords, and you get distracted Goauld keeping secrets from each other. They're unable to inspect their rivals' gates, unwilling to share their own, and overlooking the Tauri threat until it's too late.

I loved the movie. It was an outstanding remake of a Doctor Who episode called "Pyramids of Mars". Instead of "Ra" in the film, it was Sutekh in the show.
I love the show, it has the same presmise as Doctor Who.

@ Meiczyslaw
Your right it is a TV series and resembles nothing close to reality. Character development is more important than logic I am well aware of that.

Do you think a recon team would go through the gate before multi million dollar experts would?

"You have to find SG teams to kill them" Yup thats why you send a few hundred Jaffa out on patrol or booby trap gates you don't use so no one else can use them.

" The gates weren't a Goauld invention and they never managed to catalog them all" No but they knew how to operate them just like the Tauri and should have investigated them, they had millenia.

"Add in the in-fighting between System Lords, and you get distracted Goauld keeping secrets from each other." Another reason to send out kill teams if not to catch SG teams then you catch the other System Lords and their minions.

"They're unable to inspect their rival's gates, unwilling to share their own and overlooking the Tauri threat until it's too late." No they can't inspect their rivals but I would expect them to be paranoid and patroling their territory like I would my own. Anything that did not contain a garrison would get a frequent visit.

I would have to say that I much prefer the series over the movie…

Mike

Hi

So, we have a bunch of people who didn't watch the show criticizing the "holes" in it. Grin, I LOVE this sort of discussion. Hope no one takes offense.

Lets see…Actually, as I said, I am aquainted with ops teams during 'nam that consisted of exactly this sort of thing. A colonel and… Never mind.

Daniel at a desk. Sorry, if you watched the show you would know that the gate cannot stand open indefinately, so, any ops would need to have someone at both ends periodically open and transmit and teams to protect them…not going to happen.

Kill teams: actually the bad guys TRIED. There are several episodes on the theme that the Jaffa are warriors and rule by being terrible to a simple disarmed populace. Ops training wins everytime. One early episode centers around trying to artifically create SG teams by the G so that jaffa can do live fire exercises and training. When a REAL SG team shows up and takes over the simulated teams, big losses…..basic small team tactics and all. Partly, in the story line, this leads to a greater internal revolt among those jaffa coming to realize that their gods ain't gods and they ain't cannon fodder.

Sending on patrol. Again, this theme shows up. Short version, the universe is too dangerous to just randomly pop out teams looking for SG. Worse, there are so many gates, unexplored places that even that won't likely produce an encounter. Universe is too big.

Rationale for the movie only going to the one CLOSE location is a combination of steller drift and the idea that the original "ancients" control device has a computer that relays information to the others and compesates with the addresses, but the one in sG isn't there! they are artifacting with a human computer that doesn't have the contact or information. Several episodes consist of trying to find out MORE valid locations and compesate for the drift!

What else? How about this, you guys hating the show expected that one episode was going to address every objection you had from not watching. Curiously, the same complaint can be made about the movie. The trick isn't do they have a backstory, but are they consistant with the backstory.

Rocky

@RockyRusso

I watched the show and I know the gate cannot stay open forever. There are plenty of episodes where the gate opens just to send a message so yes it did happen. No they do not show the gate every time it opens for every message and every team.

As far as Kill Teams go the System Lords have the resources of multiple planets and their populations. What would be a fair trade of Jaffa Lives for an SG team, 50-1,100-1 or higher? The System Lords proved over and over again they could care less about casualties. The Jaffa were also expected to fight the forces of other System Lords not just unarmed peasants.

The universe is to dangerous to randomly pop out teams looking for SG. Dangerous for who? It does not stop SG command from exploration. The System Lords could care less about their minions only results.

The universe is to big with to many gates to produce an encounter. A battalion of Jaffa on a couple of planets dialing gate after gate 24-7 365 a year might get some useful results sending a squad through at a time. If they did not find SG they might find other System Lords or useful technology. (Place a mine field around the gate or rig the DHD to blow up after they leave)

By the way I said I liked the series and the movie.

Any show that has Amanda Tapping in it is worth my attention :^)

Hi

But the objection was Daniel Jackson sitting at his desk and translating thorugh the gate. Not a quicky "Hi Mom".

And the system lords clearly don't have unlimited resources.

I have an idea…lets GAME it!

Rocky

@RockyRusso

If I win the lottery I will buy the rights and have the most beautiful miniatures sculpted in the world. I would even fly you out to game at my table.

DG

Hi

I recently found a couple packs of the Jaffa and my son is painting them.

He previously built us a stargate for grins. It would be easy to use the generators out of the old "Star Patrol" system to randomly generate what populates the planets and so on. Very doable.

The downside is that the guys we game with haven't demanded to do so!

Rocky

I enjoyed the first half of the movie – the mystery surrounding the stargate, who built it and why, the archaeologists' efforts to decipher it and eventually get it working.

But the moment they go through and discover just another group of humans being repressed by an evil alien overlord, it turns into pretty standard sci-fi/action movie fare.

Love the sets & Snake Pitkin is one of my favorite character actors, but I can't really watch the "Crying Game" dude with the voice over…

hey its a show, and the 'specialists' had to get their combat time, so they could get hazardous pay and a chance at promotions.

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Now, if someone could convince them to make Jaffa from the original movie (with outfits better suited for desert climate), my joy will be complete:

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CC

Movie didn't do much for me. The plot was thin and the action silly, but then I should'nt be surprised given that it's from the team of Dean Devlin and Roman Emmerich (whose other credits include such mindless drivel as the Americanized movie version of 'Godzilla,' 'Independence Day' and 'The Day After Tomorrow').

On the other hand, I loved the TV series. It had its ups and downs like most series, but overall it was solid. Not many shows last over 4 or 5 seasons nowadays, much less the 10 that we've seen from SG-1, not counting its spin-off SG:Atlantis.

Frankly, I would rather see the "aliens" speak English right off the bat than go threw a whole big production of discovering their langauge, translating it, and then getting translating English back into their language. Yes, it is a bit hokey having all "aliens" speaking English but this is a 40 minute show not a 2 hour movie.

Nor do I have a lot of patience for subtitles. I see them enough over here in Japan and live with them but I would rather not have to read them for a whole show. Yes, I have seen movies with subtitles and some are good but I much prefer to hear what the actors say and do than spend time reading dialogue at the bottom of the screen.

Finally, do you think many actors really want to spend a whole show speaking some "alien" language. Sure, there may be a few and even fewer who can pull it off and make it look good.

Sorry, but I find that critical comment to be a less than great reason for not watching a show. It may be one of the reasons but alone …… not a good one.

I don't know. But having the aliens speak something other than English added a lot to the "authenticity" of the story and made me more involved.

Jackson, after all, was there as a translator. There is very little work for him otherwise, except the translation of texts from "the Ancients" on the TV show.

Just my personal opinion.

CC

The special edition DVD of the Stargate movie has added scenes that pull the movie and series closer together in terms of continuity.

Certainly worth a rental if you are a fan of either.

Remembering that it is only a 40 minute show, you have to decide which is better for the audience, having the aliens speaking the same language as the SG1 team or having them spend a few minutes like Enterprise where Hoshi listens to the aliens for a few seconds and then can carry on a conversation in the alien language or having the magic "universal translator" that appears in ST and a variety of other movies.

While I do agree with you CC about it being good and adding "authenticity" I think it is more viable in movies than on a 40 minute TV show.

I thought that if you kept Jackson as the "translator" he would have just been a fluff type character not a central one. Similar to Hoshi in Enterprise and Uhuura in Star Trek. Their characters were good but left in the translator-communications role they become ultimately one dimensional and little needed from show to show. Jackson's character "grew" from his initial job in the movie to a more central and important character in the show.

No longer was he an addition to the crew but an important part of the crew that could be relied upon when crap hits the fan. So, in my opinion, his job became more than just mere translator. Left otherwise they could have replaced him week to week with another couple of characters who could do a similar job. IMO, of course.

The thing that almost made Star Gate "jump the shark" for me was the time travel show near the end of Season 8. They find the "gateship/puddlejumper/time ship" and take it out for a spin. Jack JUST happens to activate the device and they are off to ancient Egypt. Where Jack, Tealc, and Carter are killed. Oh, but wait their future selves in another time line come back to rescue the time line, are apparently successful and everything is back to normal.

BUT wait, there are fish in Jack's pond. And, yep there is an and, Jack and Carter appear to FINALLY be hooking up. Otherwise, everything is back to normal again. (Rolling eyes here!)

And to top it off, a tape is found and they spend much of the tape gabbing about there lives, etc and when they finally get around to the important part the battery dies or tape runs out. (rolling eyes here again) Please, the ZPM would be the first darn thing I'd have them mention.

On the whole I've liked the series even with the shows that were less than brilliant but these two shows I could have done without.

There are a lot of things I can accept in entertainment and let it wash over me but I have come to the conclusion that time travel is vastly overdone and lately hasn't been done well.

As a last resort, I may need to refit my BTD Egyptians with a few staff weapons:

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At least they would be the appropriate height.

Or, better yet, use other less clad ranges and add more flowing loincloths like those in the movie:

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Since I'm not particularly interested in figures with the helmets (only those with skullcaps), it might just work.

Any recommendations of other 28mm-30mm figures that I can customize in this way, preferably with no kilts and short hair or bald?

Dan

SG-1 is awfull. I LOVE Atlantis

I guess I could always add skullcaps to any ancient Egyptian figure, as long as they were they proper height:

TMP link

CC

Watching the film at this moment on Encore. Yes, I own a copy but, after a little channelsurfing, I came across it and had to watch.

I dunno guys. In two hours the movie does a whole lot more to build up a theme than any of the SG-1 episodes can do in any of their two- or three- part shows.

CC

I guess I'm going to have to search out some of the movie-based novels . . .

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CC

>Frankly, I would rather see the "aliens" speak English right off the bat than go threw a whole big production of discovering their langauge, translating it, and then getting translating English back into their language. Yes, it is a bit hokey having all "aliens" speaking English but this is a 40 minute show not a 2 hour movie.<

I think you've got it backwards – the film has two hours to do it all, and resolve as many loose ends as possible. A series has hours and hours (10 years x 16 episodes per year at 40+ minutes per episode if I understand it correctly).

The series should be able to take the time to do these things – an episode might portray the initial entry into a certain gate location and securing the site, a follow-on episode could focus on breaking the language barrier, another episode could focus on exploring the new environment, a fourth episode could focus on learning the customs of the new people/aliens encountered, further episodes could be centered on HQ and the labs back home…

After seeing the film, my wish was for a limited run series to further explore the ideas. Not an ongoing series where there would be a lot of crap to sift through to get to the good stuff, but a limited run with a clear beginning, middle, and end – what "The Watchmen" was in comics (12 issues, then done).

Admittedly, I've only seen parts of a few episodes of the tv show, but they have been enough to turn me off to it.