"Advice on painting American Indians please" Topic

Hi Guys

I recently got some 15mm American Indians from peter pig ( excellent minis!.I want to paint them as generic indians, i.e. not sioux or apache, as they may be pressed into service as either until my collection expands. I have a few questions on colours.

What is the best way of achieving a believible skin tone ( i dont want "REDSKINS" !)using GW paints ?

Should most of the buckskins be the same colour or was it a range of browns ? Also should the fringe bits of the buckskin be lighter or darker than the garment ?

Are there any particular colours appropiate for the flaps and other clothing articles, as hollywood seems to use buckskin, and everything esle is faded red . ?

When painting feather headdresses, am I right in using white feathers with black or red tips ?

Thanks in Advance, more stupid questions to follow,

Phil

Hi Phil,

I asked almost the same question about native american skin a couple of months ago and this is what I got:

TMP link

Hi, Buckskins come in a variety of colours,from tan through to very dark brown. They tend to darken with age. On Indians I think the light tan colour works best. Try adding some patterns to represent beads or shells in blues, reds, white.

They also used trade cloth in reds, blues, greens etc for the breech clouts or even leggings were sometimes made of cloth instead of buckskin.

Viewing Dances with Wolves should give you some guidelines, or if you want books, try Mystic Warriors of the Plains for reference.

Hi Fonzie,

thanks for that. I should have used "Native American" rather than indian in the title. Have been reading/watching westerns for too long.!

Thanks,

Phil

Thanks Mamalute,

thats what I hoped for the buckskin, I didnt want it to look like a uniform, I assume I should go for a faded rather than a rich brown ?

My father, Cherokee in large part, always referred to his heritage as "Indian." He said he was raised with that term and no amount of PC activists were going to change what his mother (who was Cherokee) taught him. Grin.

A Native American/Indian speaker (name slips my mind right now) presnted by the agency Native American/Alaskan Native council this year (last name included 'horse') for NA/AN Heritage Month said he prefers "Indian" since he actually read Colombus's writings as part of his doctorate research and he says the term comes from "en Dios" ["in God"] which was Colombus'initial impression of the Caribbean native peoples he encountered. I think you're safe using the term "Indian" although some people may feel led to challenge you on that term. Just politely tell then it's from the Spanish phrase "Children of God" – "Ninos en Díos" – that Columbus was led to use when he initially wrote about the gentle Taino (?) people he encountered.

That said, I worked with full blooded {insert term of choice} members of Northwest nations/tribes up in Seattle who were lighter in skin coloring then I was (I am 'two or more races' in 'psuedo-scientific gene pool' terms) – not many but a few who worked night shift with me.

Remember that colors for smaller figures (I like 6 mm figures for my armies) might need to be subtlely (spelling alert) lighter then for larger figures like 28 mm, especially if you prime in black. And try and get a varied skin tone across a group of figures of the same group if you can to reflect individual differences if these are 'skirmish' level figures.

I wish you good luck as my painting skills are not that great and I have never felt that my figures ever reflected completely accurately my friends or relatives who were Native American/Indian. Painting good skin tones on miniatures seems to be a matter of experimentation and practice (and more skill then I apparently possess.)

The preferred term among Indians is, in fact, American Indian. It is only the grievance industry agitators who cling to the "Native American" fiction.

We're all "natives" now, and even the first tribes here (and no one knows who that would have been) came from Asia.

PVO

"thats what I hoped for the buckskin, I didnt want it to look like a uniform, I assume I should go for a faded rather than a rich brown ?"

Yes – I think faded is best, a light tan colour. I don't think they will look too uniform, most will look pretty individual, especially if you add different warpaint effects. I remember the Foundry had a good article on warpaint. it may still be on their website. I also recommend Mystic Warriors of the Plains book for reference.

I worked with some American Indian activists a few years ago on some archaeology issues. I don't remember that they referred to themselves as anything but Indian. I think Multi Scale has got it right.

Buckskin tends to get darker the older it is, with rain, sweat , grease and mud working its way in. I'd start with a buff color, paint a couple of items and add a darker brown bit by bit until you get a middle brown (like Vallejo Earth).

How dare you people refer to me as that! I have always been one of those, not that! j/k

I say Indian, American Indian or Native American. The one I don't like is Amerindian…Is that even a word? It sounds like their trying too hard for an accurate name. It doesn't offend me mind you, it just sounds dumb.

Anyways, look at my profile for one skintone, or look at any decent movie depiction with real Indians or any Osprey book. A non 'white' skin tone, but light enough to be seen at that scale should be fine. More contrast too on that scale as well, in order to see the detail better.

All the other suggestions on clothing colors is fine too.

Feathers with black tips would look better.

-Eric

Ditto Bluebottle—while skins come in various shades of tans and browns, grease, smoke and sweat turns skins a darker brown. So yes, feel free to use many different shades from very light to very dark.

"My father, Cherokee in large part, always referred to his heritage as "Indian." He said he was raised with that term and no amount of PC activists were going to change what his mother (who was Cherokee) taught him. Grin."

My Granny is the same way. "Cherokee" here, too.

In regards to getting the skin tone, I've had decent enough results starting with Vallejo Game Color Parasite Brown and working up to Filthy Brown with tiny amounts of Bronzed Flesh for final highlights. Not sure what the Citadel/GW equivalents of Parasite Brown and Filthy Brown are.

hmmm. overlooked the 15mm bit. You could probably get away with a "Filthy Brown" base followed by thinned flesh wash.

Gee, Conquest, forgive me for referring to you as ____. From now on I will only refer to you as _____.

I have to tell you guys that Conquest Miniatures has the best line of American Indians in existance (500 Nations), and one of the best sculpted wargames lines period. I'm from the land of Tecumseh and Blue Jacket, and seeing these in WI convinced me to build an army. (unpaid testimonial)

One of the activists I met was Russell Means (nice guy, by the way). Is your Chingachgook based on him? Sure looks like it.

I don't know what your talking about. Clearly, these miniatures were based off of the novel…

When they were finished, I couldn't sell them in good conscience (after looking at the faces) so I cantacted Wes Studi (Magua) to get permission. Very nice Human Being. He now owns all the packs, gratis of course.

In my experience those who insist on calling themselves Native American are often what my archaeology teacher called panindians. Those are middle and upper class white folks who have recently "discovered" their Indian heritage and want to be proactive on all the soft topics like the term native american.

And if you go to the reservation located in the Dakotas and ask them what they call themselves, they'll tell you they are Sioux not native american.

And as to the painting the skin tone I would start with a base of dark flesh and drybrush my way up to a vermin brown or start with a scorched brown and drybrush up to a snakebite leather.

I was in college and grad school during the peak of PC conflict, and I've been working in Indian country for the last 10 years. In my experience there just isn't an answer to the question about which term to use that will be acceptable to everyone.

I think the best thing to do when it comes to these labels is to take them all with a grain of salt. None of them are really descriptively accurate; they're just quick identifiers, the linguistic equivalent of pointing at a person. Different people have different preferences; some are reasonable about it and some are not. Some people are just looking for a chance to give a lecture, and some simply have a genuine preference (which will vary from person to person).

I think the best thing to do is not worry about it when you yourself are communicating and try to adapt when folks state a definite preference, especially if they are willing to do so without being overly aggressive about it. In most cases, if you sincerely mean to show respect, folks will see that and give you the benefit of teh doubt, whatever term you're using.

BTW: Good luck with the paint jobs. I hope the minis come out well.

My grandmother always referred to herself as Cherokee or as being from the Cherokee Nation. I think that calling them American Indians or Native Americans, or Amerinds, or whatever would be the same as grouping the Germans and French under the universal term European, implying that they are all the same.

It's a genuine concern, but I actually don't think the reference itself implies people are all the same. A lot depends on how it's used. Certainly when people ask me "what do thuh Indians think?" (Yes, I have been asked that) it's just begging for a generalization. And the generalization would be just as bad if the term was changed to any of those you mentioned. But there are other times when one really is talking in very general terms (as in references to American Indians as an ethnicity, or as a historical population here at the time of contact, legal definitions, etc.).

On the rez. tribe-specific designations are pretty much the norm, but peope do use the general terms where appropriate. When we do so, it seems that "Native American" is used in more formal contexts, and "Indian" is the preference in some contexts, specifically adjectives.

…I once tried to go an entire semester using "Native American" instead of "Indian." It was more of an experiment than a moral stance. Sure enough, though I caught myself in some real tongue twisters. Particularly when using the phrase as an adjective, "Native American" sometimes led to some really awkward phrasing. Also when discussing political history, it became a problem. There was an "American Indian Religious Freedom Act," an "Indian Claims Commission," etc., and there is a Bearue of Indian Affairs. There never was a "Bureau of Native American Affairs," etc.

I wont get into the Native American/Indian debate but I'd like to give you guys some insight into "buckskin". I've brain tanned deer hide and made my own clothes from the results, and I must tell you the deer hides I brain tanned, were cream white when finished! I just pulled out my leggings that are 20 years old now, and they are still cream white. Now "CROME" tanned hides are light to dark brown. Since people living off the land don't have the access to the tanning and dying chemicals I'd say brain tanning would be the norm so deer hide/buck skin would be a cream color.

Peoples skin tones vary so much its bewildering. Take my wife (please) for example. She is Scottish but her skin tones are very dark as she was raised in Tampa Fla. I'm Scottish/Indian my skin tone are Very light. I'm also anemic so that also contributes to my lighter complexion.
I'd paint 15 mm Indians a little darker than Caucasian peoples, in general, and be done with it.

Oh, and eagle feathers are white with dark brown to black tips.

As always at your service,

Colonel Hairy Haggis

Thanks, Colonel, the tanning info is new to me, and makes good sense.

Hi Guys

Thanks for everybodies help, much better insight into colour schemes. Will go for a dark skintone, and drybrush with bronzed flesh, should give the right mix. Will muck around with the buck-skin colour til I find something realistic. I have plenty of Valleo browns , so it should not be a problem getting plenty of variation.

Didnt mean to open the pc can-of-worms ! Sorry. Will get painting this evening, unless my wife has prepared a list…………….

Eric, excellent site.

Thanks again

Phil

I really like the suggestions here:

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TMP link

Anyway, I have yet to decide what paints to use for my Hurons:

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CC

I just saw this thread. I am working on 28mm Sioux and Cheyenne using Wargames Foundry and Old Glory figures. After a good deal of experimentation, I have settled on their flesh as follows:
Base coat: FolkArt Terra Cotta
Shadow: Any dark brown wash
Highlight: Dry brush with mixture of 1 part FolkArt Terra
Cotta and 1 part Americana Peaches and Cream
FolkArt and Americana are craft paints available from Hobby Lobby, Michaels, or other craft stores.

Tom

Oh boy I tried to stay away from this one. Buckskin, every day wear was usually smoked dark tans, Buckskin for special wear was usually bleached in animal urine and was very lite tan to almost cream color. buckskin was also dyed and or painted. Fringe should be darker than your base color. You are dealing with very spiritual people, their are no set rules, example I've seen a northern plains war shield, that was smoked buckskin about 15 inches in diameter, a medicine wheel painted on it in the four colors of man, white, yellow, red and black. Unbelievable, such a great people! Look for books by "Thomas E. Mails" to start with in the library.