"My Cruise and TMP" Topic

Just before Christmas I went on a cruise with my wife. It was in the South Pacific, and passengers were mainly from the USA or Australia.

One afternoon the Americans at the table next to me were talking about Don. Loudly. Denigrating the Democrats. I could see the tables near them getting visibly disturbed. Several tables got up and walked away.

This is TMP now.

"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." -- Harry S. Truman

Nick, but would everyone have been ok if they had been degrading the President, the Republicans and the U.S.? Now take it a step further and they had been from another country and saying it about the President, Republicans and the U.S. (I ask, because you only reference one side).

My bet, yes. 👏

That is TMP currently. 😉

Ask yourself how you would take it if we here in the U.S. continuously said those things about Australia, their politicians and people. Or any other European country.

It's not new to the 2024 election. It dates back here to before his first election.

link

Well you have an option if true, you can go it alone. Or I guess you can always form an alliance with China and or Russia. I would not, but that's your choice. Might be like forming an alliance with Japan prior to WW2. But maybe most in OZ find the political belief systems in China and Russia more compatible with their own.

I know one Aussie I'd welcome here from TMP if he doesn't want to follow you. But have at it! 😉

+1 35thOVI

I can see saying "Hurray for our side", but does that necessarily require that you degrade those who disagree?
A common complaint about Americans overseas is their loudness.
People being openly and loudly disrespectful would have caused me to get up and move, too.

Hey, Bob. Don't take it personally. I imagine a fairly impressive volte face after the forthcoming regime change.

This is TMP now.

The forum rules remain in place, and all complaints are handled within a few hours.

Offenders seem to be balanced from both sides of the aisle.

Last Sunday, I had to remind someone at church to not discuss politics. They understood when I explained at church, we need to tolerate varying political viewpoints, and political discussions are best conducted elsewhere (or at least, where you are not potentially stressing or offending others). Nobody comes to church to hear about your politics.

What percentage of Australians could answer a factual question about current American policy vice media and social media reported crap?

I've seen quite a few fail here …

Seems to me that voices on both sides on TMP (and those on neither) are vociferous. Do you feel a diversity of opinions should not be allowed? I don't get the argument. It seems if you are anti Don, the opinion seems to be that those who are pro should have no voice. As someone who celebrates freedom of discussion, I don't get it. Please elaborate.

Tgerritsen

That is exactly it.

Do you have friends or family members who are anti Trump?

I do. There is no discussion! First a plethora of emotional responses. Then anger. Then they stalk off.. if you are lucky. We have some that refuse to talk to us.. and I speak of family. Some simply because we voted for Trump.

The sad part is, things are alright for them to say what they please, but don't feel you have the same right. They are convinced that everyone feels the same as they do. I guess because that is what they hear on TV, the web and whatever other sources they use. (Actually I believe that is why they hate Fox News so much and they all do).

I have some relatives by marriage who are LBGQ and they by far are the most unaccepting of other views. Also the ones not communicating since the last election. Some actually believe they are going to be rounded up and put in concentration camps. 🙄
But then some commentators on TV actually insinuated that they thought they were gonna be rounded up and placed into concentration camps if Trump was elected again, so why shouldn't their group?

I thought we were alone in this happening, but I have talked to multiple others who have encountered exactly the same thing.

+1 35OVI.

TMP link

My sister-in-laws (3 of them) are like this. They will rip republicans and policies but when, myself being the only male (with testosterone) in the family that will interject a countering point, they get loud and want to stop talking about it.

Actually the three Americans that I have met have all been apologetic about Trump's two elections. But then, two were living in the UK, and the third, a veteran of Filipino extraction, was considering emigration.

Just after Easter I went on a cruise with my partner. It was around the Mediterranean Sea, and passengers were mainly from the USA or Australia/New Zealand and Canada (Princess Cruises).

My partner is more social than me so we volunteered for the sit-with-anyone dining option.

During our ten day cruise we noticed that we hadn't been sat with any Murcans. Just lovely Canooks, Diggers and Kiwis.

The Yanks appeared to be corralled together in a far part of the dining areas.

Not sure if this is TMP or not.

Actually the three Americans that I have met have all been apologetic about Trump's two elections. But then, two were living in the UK, and the third, a veteran of Filipino extraction, was considering emigration."

🤔

Did you feel an apology to you, or any European, was necessary or owed?

Did they have issues speaking in a bass voice? As I can only assume they were missing their cajones.

Have you or anyone you know in Europe ever apologized to a citizen of the U.S. for what your country or continent have done currently or in the past? Would you feel it necessary?

Do you feel we in the U.S. are owed multiple apologies and long term gratitude?

Just wondering if this apology stuff is only a one way street. I know I've NEVER had a European apologize to me. Nor anyone from another country.

35thOVI -- We once had a Swiss Army general apologize to us for Switzerland's role in laundering Nazi gold stolen / harvested during the late great unpleasantness.

😉

My recent Cruise to Europe last month ended in Rome. While walking to a nearby restaurant from our hotel I was stopped by a local television camera crew and reporter who asked "American? Are you an American?" Maybe he thought my red Ohio State cap was a MAGA hat.

He asked what I thought of the United States relationship was with the Europeans and what about Trump while the camera crew filmed. I wasn't sure what kind of response he was looking for, whether positive or negative (I know the Italian PM likes Trump).

Well, I didn't take the bait either way and simply replied that "American presidents come and go but over the years the United States has always had pretty good relations with European countries, especially those we have beaten in a war a time or two".

He simply looked aghast, smiled and said "well, enjoy your visit" as the crew stopped filming and we went on our way.

My wife asked, "what was that all about?" I told her I had no clue what he was looking for but they will probably show me on local Roman TV station and just dub Italian over my voice any answer they wanted, LOL.

We ended up at the Hard Rock Café Rome and at the bar a man wearing a "Michigan" cap sat right next to us and we had a great conversation between two Americans, regardless of our obvious differences!

Kim

Just a thought, and really not to offend, but you went to Rome which has so many great restaurants and ended up in an American hamburger chain restaurant?

Dude. For real?

Yes, last night there. Of the local restaurants near the hotel they were either Very Good and Very Expensive, or just Very Expensive.

We had already had our share and it was last night in Rome before we had to get up at 4am to catch our flight home, so we thought we would grab a reasonably priced carry out meal and take it back to the hotel. We were only a block away from the Hard Rock Rome and thought we would check it out.

Kim

Ah, well, if you'd been to several already and with the early start I guess it makes more sense 😀

I was recently on holiday in Italy (Pompeii), sitting having lunch with my wife and daughter, and two American couples (one pair Democrats and one pair Republicans). We discussed recent events in USA and Europe, our leaders positive and negative points, etc., all in a very civilised manner. Despite our differences, we all agreed that since we lived in democratic countries, we could at least change our votes next time around if we felt so inclined, a luxury not available to many less fortunate citizens elsewhere in the world.

The political left and the political right. A hundred years of failure and we still can't learn any lessons from them.

Perhaps I can offer an opinion from an Australian perspective. The main problem would have been talking loudly in public. I've moved tables in a restaurant just because the people at the table next to us talked loudly, non stop.

A secondary annoyance would have been the negative subject matter. If they had been talking loudly about how great the cruise ship was, instead of laying cr*p on other people, it wouldn't have been so bad.

My third observation is how sensitive some Americans (and others, no doubt) are to criticism. To me, a normal response would have been, OK, talking loudly about politics makes some people uncomfortable, we'll bear that in mind. But a common response here seems to be, if you don't like what I do, you are my enemy. Let's end any alliances and here's some tariffs for you.

Now I'll await the rage of a thousand suns to rain down upon me.

TBH Shardik, although many Americans seem to regard private conversations as a type of performance art (& they aren't the only foreigners who do this), when on our frequent OS trips, my family & I ignore loud strangers & tune out.

I do that here on TMP too – references to "clown cars" or TDS etc are just "noise" & any posters (only a couple) who really have nothing to add are best stifled – that's why that function exists here.

I'm strictly neutral in this ongoing political kerfuffle but those who wish to espouse left or right views are welcome. If we can have a decent and erudite discussion, "I'm listening". Otherwise it's the "cone of silence".

Foreigners, as in not Americans, probably are more in line with the Leftists veiws. Foreign news mostly is what the most American news has to say. Its not all, occasionally I see some foreign reports are what I might read equally but its rare..

A "neutral observer" would not have responded three times in this thread and sooo many times before in others, never with anything positive to say about the U.S. 😂 As neutral as old Adolf speaking about the Jewish religion. 😏

Not speaking of politics in a meal setting is a fine idea. As is not speaking of religion. But I've found those who oppose the current administration always seem to find some way to put in an underhanded jab or sly innuendo. Of course they assume you agree. After all "everybody does". Their media, their social acquaintances, their academic or governmental work place associates. They all agree.

Until… they get out into the world and find those who don't.

Then shock and anger take over. "Don't you challenge my beliefs!", "Shut up!", "Obviously you are just not as educated and enlightened as I am!", "Quick get me back to those that will message my ego and tell me; of course you're right! There! there!" 😉

If that does not work, well, you can always revert to violence. Rip that MAGA hat off their head. Knock the dinners off their tables! Spray things on them or throw a high end Chardonnay wine on them!

"They have to understand that we are right and have every right to criticize them, their government and country. But don't you reciprocate about ours and by all means keep your mouths shut!"

Facts would seem to prove you wrong, 14thBore.
link
link

You may be mistaking anti-Americanism &, particularly, anti-Trumpism as left wing instead of the natural reaction towards bullies.

4 times 😂

My favorite quote from the movie, "The Wind and the Lion" (1975). Often found the comments ascribed to Teddy useful when dining with foreigners during official functions.

Theodore Roosevelt:
The American grizzly is a symbol of the American character: strength, intelligence, ferocity. Maybe a little blind and reckless at times… but courageous beyond all doubt. And one other trait that goes with all previous.

2nd Reporter:
And that, Mr. President?

Theodore Roosevelt:
Loneliness. The American grizzly lives out his life alone. Indomitable, unconquered – but always alone. He has no real allies, only enemies, but none of them as great as he.

2nd Reporter:
And you feel this might be an American trait?

Theodore Roosevelt:
Certainly. The world will never love us. They respect us – they might even grow to fear us. But they will never love us, for we have too much audacity! And, we're a bit blind and reckless at times too.

dBerserk

😉

Left – to center- to Right isn't a full circle, Communism on the Left doesn't make Nationalism some kind of National Socialism.

I like this place, better go back to Napoleonic Wars, at least there I play a Royaist

"Royalist"? Which one? I would like to hear your opinion on Napoleon. Care to start a thread over there?