"Assault on Artillery (and other) Positions" Topic

This thread about off-table artillery trays. It's pretty cool, and while we use minis off table (usually at the snack table, so they are (1) far away) and (2) not forgotten – nobody in our groups forget to get snacks, we do use them on the board too.

Do you play engagements where artillery are assaulted by units that cannot be targetd by the artillery because they are inside the minimum radius?

If you play assault/protection of other offensive military units (so, a mobile drone GCS, but not a comms tower), that could count too, but please tell us what those units are. Debate about what counts are "offensive military units" is welcome too?

We do. That was the reason I built my first set of long-range artillery. Have also done drone GCS and mobile cyber/EW units. All had their own infantry for security. Sometimes it was "delay and call for reenforcements" other times it was "repel/attrite the assault".

You put figures etc on the table with the snashters? In the same room as your game?
Really?

We have a strict rule to keep greasy fingers & figures away from each other. And snashters are inherently greasy.

So, to follow your idea, the off-table artillery would have to be upstairs & in the kitchen. I guess this would work. Better, I think,though to keep the games room snashter-free & break for sustenance – Irn Bru, Soor Plooms, Oatcakes with Crowdie spread on top and Clootie dumpling etc – in another room, with hand washing facilities between them.

And just put artillery on the gaming table's edge & pretend it's 'over the hills & far away'.

I don't think artillery have a 'minimum radius', they just fire over open sights at stuff nearby. Mortars maybe do.

I do have counter battery fire from long range artillery and airstrikes. Like Ochoin, artillery sits on the edge of table for tactical games. I also track ammo expenditure, so the batteries have little stacks of dice 'ammo dumps', and occasionally B echelon vehicles roll up to restock them.

I have never done artillery attacks. It implies a breakthgrough and typicaly a decent general will have pulled his artillery back by then as its the most sensible to do. Plus typicaly they have limited support resources to protect them.

There are occations when artillery will be planned to be used over open sights but generally that is rare (save perhaps with the Brisish 25 ponder) where it's anti tank capability was all that was available. I suppose STG 3's are artillery as they were opperated initially by the Artillery branch.
So never done it, seems like too many models to colour up for too few games, but I wait to see if folk offer scenarios that look interesting, it could change my mind.

Plenty of accounts of artillery in nam firing over open sights firing behive round and short fuses when the FSB was being assaulted.

Your players lack basic hygiene, manners, and cleanliness? Really?

Direct fire is certainly a thing, but it's not always possible. Carriage and other system design, terrain, and friendly fire concerns limit it effectiveness at close range. Also, commanders are trained to consider effectiveness; you can use an rpg as a really big shotgun, but …

This has happened in some major battles like Waterloo, Gettysburg (specifically Cemetery Hill), Bunker Hill, Dien Bien Phu, etc. If we move to the "other units" with minimum ranges we get stuff like emergent tactics in the Yom Kippur War, Stalingrad, Mosul, etc.

ypicaly a decent general will have pulled his artillery back by then as its the most sensible to do

I wish I had fought against more decent generals who ran away when the enemy got close.

ypicaly they have limited support resources to protect them.

Also, I wish had fought against more decent generals who didn't protect HVU's.

"Your players lack basic hygiene, manners, and cleanliness? Really?"

Needlessly vulgar & offensive. Well done.

I see UshCha's point. You can, & many do, handle artillery as an off-table abstraction. No need for models – unless you like painting them.

I do, so putting them on table edge, whilst not realistic, gives them a presence the time & effort you spent on painting worthwhile.

It was pretty common to use heavy artillery pieces as direct fire bunker busters in city fighting in WW2. The Russians even used 203mm guns in this role, whereas I think the biggest the US used were 155s.

My WW2 Italian gunners are very frequently engaging British tanks in the desert over open sights, as usually the gunners are the best troops the Italians have…

But generally I don't rate artillery units as wonderful at defending themselves from direct attack.

This thread makes me think of the brilliant sequence in 'Band of Brothers' where Lt Winters assaults the German 105 battery at Brécourt Manor…

I have all kinds of units or vehicles in my collections that serve no real gaming purpose except as targets/objectives. Mainly I have them because I like painting them and they look cool. When I include them in a scenario I add rules as to how they fight. In Flames of War, for example, I use the game's stats. In Fistful of TOWs where artillery is mostly off board, I write up a stat line for them. So a battery of artillery may equate to a weak platoon in melee.

Units I have that fit this category are a Scud Missile Launcher, American 155s, various headquarters type units and so on.

Needlessly vulgar & offensive. Well done.

I was simply pointing out that while, as you described, you and your group may lack the skills to have food and minis in the same place, your showing surprise that other people do is unwarranted.

Of course, I could be misunderstanding your statement that you have to separate food, since I still don't know what your problem with the word "extinugish" is or where you get your fallicious information after I apologized for presuming it comes from whatever media you consume.

You seemed to blame the food, the inanimate objects, for the lack of ability to not get grease on minis instead of the people. Maybe you really believe that. That would line up with your assertion that lithium ion batterey fires can't be extinguished, for sure.

various headquarters type units

I usually consider those to be a regular HVU, contributing to the capabiliy, not not directly engaging. I was thinking about asking the question about what HVU, as opposed to an offensive unit, people typically field.

I'm wondering whether that was your attempt at an apology.
A passive-aggressive one, at best.

Bad form & poor manners are not becoming to you.

(I might ask what lithium has to do with anything but I'm afraid you might attempt to explain).

I'm wondering whether that was your attempt at an apology.

Perhaps you should take a reading comprehension class. I was simply pointing you that I was reflecting your assertion that other people can't eat without destroying minis. What is so hard to explain about that.

(I might ask what lithium has to do with anything but I'm afraid you might attempt to explain).

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Lithium. You are referring to some throw away comment. Made on a wargames forum. On another thread. A month ago. Wow. Just wow.

I now know exactly what I'm dealing with. You have a lovely day my man.

If that's how you want to characerize it, you are showing your personal integrity.

I have had hand-carried mortars on the table in infantry skirmish games, and those units were of course subject to attack.

I don't think artillery have a 'minimum radius', they just fire over open sights at stuff nearby. Mortars maybe do.

Mortars can drop artillery at extremely close ranges, including on themselves (point the tube straight up): only to be used in desperation.

I have all kinds of units or vehicles in my collections that serve no real gaming purpose except as targets/objectives. Mainly I have them because I like painting them and they look cool.

Me, too.

These should have been miles away but occupy a table edge:
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On the other hand, if you use airpower, maybe not so quite out of reach:
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Who of course need to beware this (also beyond the front lines):
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