"French Tanks in NWE 1944-45" Topic

Just checking that all French-operated tanks in 1944-5 would have been in US colours? Thinking of some of the more unusual tanks mentioned in this thread: TMP link

There's this sample of a French tank at Utah Beach

Shermans in the 2nd DB would have been painted as US Shermans, give or take the divisional markings. But I have zero evidence that the British and German tanks of stray maquis units and the 3rs DB would have been repainted in US colors. The photos I've seen are in black and white, but the huge French insignia on them strongly suggests otherwise.

Color photos, anyone?

This just in: I can't post photos here, but pinterest has a color photo of a Panther still in German three-color camo, but with a big Cross of Lorraine on the glacis, and that blue disk with a white map of France on a turret side. If the French didn't repaint that one, I doubt they fussed a lot with their donated British tanks and Panzer IV's or their recaptured 1940 gear.

Seems a reasonable deduction – thanks very much both!

You're welcome. And slowly memory comes back of pictures of FFI recaptured Char B's rolling through the streets of liberated French cities. The photos were in black and white, but beneah the the big Crosses of Lorraine on hull and turret, you could still see a German three-color camo scheme.

We really should get Deadhead in on this. He's forgotten more about 1944 French tanks than I'll ever learn.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_B1

Scroll down under "Operational History" and I believe you will see the tank Robert is speaking about.

Thank you, 79th! Actually, my recommendation would be to google "FFI Char B" and click on "images" then do the same for "FFI Somua." You'll get some inspiring images both ways.

Diffult to generalize, but it looks to me as though at some point--possibly 1945?--up to a company of Char B's WAS repainted, either with US Olive Drab or with something within striking distance of it, and given nice neat relatively small Allied white stars. When you find images of tanks which are still clearly in German paint schemes, you see much larger Crosses of Lorraine and "FFI" in huge letters. I've seen the same thing in fresh-caught Allied tanks in German service.

Now apologies that I am so late onto this.

Let me start that French units, whether through Utah Beach (ie 2eme DB of Leclerc), or through Op Dragoon, were uniformly in US paint. I interpret that as Olive Drab, but a much blacker shade that you would see on a B17 Fortress. (or most models and especially on preserved, repainted, relics, as in the top picture. Notice the bogie wheels lack return rollers in two out of three! The markings are careless, they always are)

The markings are what make them so attractive and distinctive for any unit. Are the names in "khaki" outlined in white, or yellow,or white, even red, mixed capitals and smaller caps, do they have the map of France or the Consular flag, is that then horizontal or vertical? I could go on….

Modelling the 1944-5 French units makes for fantastic looking display models.

The FFI stuff is much more challenging. We have all seen them up and down the streets of Paris in August 44 and there is a plethora (I like that word) of decals/transfers for many an obsolete 1940 French tank, indeed a few Panthers. But these were all the exception and a tiny, miniscule fraction of France's contribution to the 1944-5 campaign.

Thanks very much Deadhead. Do you have any insight into the most likely colour schemes for the gifted UK stuff (Centaurs, Crusaders, Cavaliers(!))?

deadhead, thanks for joining in. No need to apologize; the thread is only a couple of days old.

The US supplied equipment would have been exactly the same olive drab as the US Army.

Absolutely. Both NW Europe and "the Champagne Campaign" from the Core d'Azur they used US supplied AFVs and softskins, in US paint schemes.

Now they did adapt the markings of course and, for both, the result was very spectacular (if, for obvious reasons, progressively toned down).

Now I only know about 2eme DB in any detail, but I have no idea of any British AFVs in French service, once out of North Africa. In 1940 a small number of Cruisers, abandoned by the british, saw very brief use in French hands, but were clearly unpainted. Post war Centaurs di appear in French use, but I have major doubts about in time for any combat use.

So, if specifically about NWE 1944-5, I think the French used more German captured AFVs and their own obsolete motors, recaptured and in FFI hands, than anything from the UK. Now North Africa would be very different.

There are plenty of colour photos of the Liberation of Paris, both still and movie and, allowing for the limitations of film after 80 years, that OD is much darker than seen on the relic shown at the start. MUCH

Someone double-check me, but I believe you'll find the British and German tanks are mostly in re-established units which were eventually consolidated into the 3rd DB. That division was established too late to see any fighting, but the component elements often had been.

Wikipedia gives a total of 150 "Cromwell-type" tanks donated by Britain, but doesn't source this. Here's a link to the previous TMP discussion:
link

German equipment went to the 1er G.M.R., which would eventually be folded into the 6e R.C. About a strong mixed company.

Liberated S35s and Char B1's went to the 13e RD. Looks like more or less a company each, and some of the Char B's were the German flame-thrower version.

So nearly as I can tell, most or all of these units saw service--but generally besieging German-held ports rather than going against panzer divisions, which seems prudent.

We're wandering far from paint. I would expect the British-supplied tanks to remain as they were, give or take a national marking or so. Photos of the captured German and recaptured French are mostly in German patterns with big French overmarkings of FFI and the Cross of Lorraine, but a couple of photos of what were clearly repainted Char B's with white Allied stars suggests to me that possibly the 13e RD took time out for a paint job. Possibly while they were besieging La Rochelle? Of course, this gives a miniature wargamer a choice.

Anyway, good luck!

Whirlwind, have we answered your question? Or is more required of us?

No, you have all done very well, thanks so much. I think I have enough for how to tackle this.