"Centaurs in French Service" Topic

I have read that some Centaur tanks (specifically the 95mm CS version) were given to the French, possibly at the end of the Normandy campaign. Can anyone shed any more light on this?

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tells us

"The Royal Marines Armoured Support Group was disbanded on D+14. Their Centaur Mk IV Close Support tanks were then distributed to other units. Some were issued to the Free French, 13e Régiment des Dragons, where they saw no action. Some were also in use by 6th LAA Battery, 27th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, RA (attached to 51st Highland Division) until 30/7/44. They were then transferred to the Canadians on 6th August 1944 in support of 6th Airborne Division, where they formed 'X' Armoured Battery, 53rd Light Regt., RA and the 1st Canadian Centaur Battery, RCA."

The 13e DBLE were a very long-serving Foreign Legion unit and landed in Southern France as part of Operation Dragoon

Deadhead, I'm at the limits of my knowledge here, but I don't think the 13th Regiment of Dragoons is the same as the 13th DBLE. Try looking at the new--or revived--French units raised as the country was liberated. They're scrounging all over for tanks, and getting into action late. These guys seem more likely:
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And notice they're besieging La Rochelle, which puts them a lot closer to those Royal Marines giving up their armor on the 20th of June than an infantry unit landing in the south of France in August.

Robert Piepenbrink is right, the 13 RD does not become the 13 DBLE, but the 13 RDP.
Here is a part of the text about the 13ème Régiment de Dragon in the French Wikipedia :
Re-created on October 16, 1944, the unit was attached in spring 1945 to the army commanded by General de Larminat in charge of reducing the pockets of German resistance on the Atlantic coast. It thus participated in the recapture of Royan – operation "Vénérable", the island of Oléron – operation "Jupiter", the encirclement of La Rochelle – "operation Mousquetaires", and the liberation of the Pointe de la Coubre. In May 1945, the regiment was sent to Germany. In September 1945, it took part in the occupation of the Rhineland Palatinate. It remained there until its disbandment on April 15, 1946. The remaining personnel was reassigned to the 6ème régiment de chasseurs d'Afrique, the 11ème régiment de chasseurs à cheval and the 25ème division aéroportée.

But in Germany, the Centaur tanks are not in the 13ème Dragon, but in the 4ème Cuir! As explain in Stéphane Weiss book : « Le réarmement français de 1944-1945: Faire flèche de tout bois ».
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En décembre 1945, la 3ème DB alignait quatre régiments dotés de chars , jugés hétérogènes et vétustes car de conception antérieure à 1942 :
- Le 6ème Régiment de Cuirassiers armé de chars allemands récupérés en France, qualifiés de fatigués.
- Le 4ème Régiment de Cuirassiers armé de chars britaniques « Centaur ».
- Le 11ème Régiment de Cuirassiers armé de chars britaniques « Crusader ».
- Le 13ème Régiment de Dragons armé de chars français B1 Bis et de chars britaniques « Cavalier ».
I hope this will help, Have an happy new year,
Loïc

What great research went into this. Well done both!

I know a bit about 2eme DB (but am still learning) and very little indeed about the units that came up through Southern France in Operation Dragoon. 4eme Cuirassiers I know as having aurore facings on their uniforms in 1815 (and I have often modelled them) but 130 years later, no hope.

Many thanks and Happy New Year starting tonight

Thank you, Deadhead, and same to you.

But--and I hope I'm not talking down to anyone--remember not every French unit you see in late 44/45 came from overseas. The "French Forces of the Interior" (maquis) are being converted to line units and being given traditional French numbers. This is something Britain and the United States did not provide equipment for--at least not on the scale it was done--which is why the higher-numbered French divisions are using obsolescent British equipment, captured German gear and re-captured 1940 French tanks. The US had completely equipped the 1st and 2nd DBs, but we'd made no provision for a 3rd. This is where you find the more unusual equipment in the late war Western Allies.

And a moment of silence in honor of the logistics and maintenance personnel in such units.

There is a book to write on this whole subject. This is not talking down to anyone. We simply do not read of this anywhere

Seriously, it could be fascinating.

Much is written on the 2eme DB of Leclerc, but even that is mostly in French. Much less on the 1e and 5e DB units that came up through Southern France. But that is only the Armoured units that I have followed, as I did once model tanks in 1/72 (a year ago. My attic is full, but no time, especially since I retired!)

I do have a Somua for Tunisia (in its Heller box in the attic) and one day…one day.

You also make such a good point about the support units who kept the M4s , M4A1s, M4A2s, M4A3s, M4A4s, M4A1 76, M4A3 76, all the 105s etc etc on the road! Imagine the challnege with so many types to maintain (without the M3A3s and A5s, the TDs etc etc)

I was thinking of the supply and maintenance people in the 3rd DB there--three different British models, all out of production and all manuals in English, Char B's out of production, and presumably some with German modifications and a battalion of mixed German tanks. Try writing to those factories for spares!

I sometimes think sympathetically of the German maintenance NCOs who had to maintain those captured Bedford command vehicles for the Afrika Korps. Imagine them scrounging through the desert battlefields for transmissions, filters or even just English measure nuts and bolts.

11eme Cuirassiers with Crusaders in 1945!! Is it known if these were gun tanks, AA or what?

Thanks very much, really appreciate the information here. I am frankly astounded of the idea of an armoured unit in 1945 equipped with a mixture of Char 1s and Cavaliers!!!

And a moment of silence in honor of the logistics and maintenance personnel in such units.

+1. A sip of fizz in their honour tonight, I think, as well as the tank crews themselves.

11eme Cuirassiers with Crusaders in 1945!

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They are great links. Why did I not think of Chars-Francais? I use it all the time for M4 variants, M10s or M3A3s

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Many thanks