"Britain gives Diego Garcia away, jeopardizing a key US base" Topic

Well ain't that fine and dandy -- the Labour Government has decided to play 3rd World political favoritism and has announced it's giving the Diego Garcia atoll to Mauritius -- an island nation which has only the most tenuous historical ties to what has been a largely uninhabited atoll.

Of course the Biden Admin is right there as well -- SecDef Lloyd Austen meandered about sovereignty and security, blah blah -- but the atoll, which was under direct US-UK control will now fall under the legal authority of the Mauritius government with the base getting a Hong-Kong style 99 year lease.

There was zero need to do this. There are no native inhabitants of the former leper colony, and Mauritius has never controlled it before. It's also odd since the British PM's besty is repping the deal with Mauritius. And of course, the government of Mauritius will now get a presence on the islands it never had before, and all deals can be broken – and Mauritius is part if China's "Belt and Road" economic alliance. China has "invested" in most of Mauritius' key infrastructure projects and is that island's main trade partner.

The US has used Diego Garcia as a strategically positioned base since the 1970s, and has since spent tens of billions improving the atoll into a deep water port and building infrastructure. Possibly now gone without a shot thanks to the broken leftist impulses of the Biden and Starmer governments.

link

I agree – this decision is . In this uncertain world private islands are de rigeur.

Apparently colonial powers aren't allowed to divide possessions during de-colonisation – so as Mauritius and Diego Garcia were administered together – so they must remain.

UK's hands have, of course, been tied behind the back by Ukraine/Crimea – UK must set an example to the rest of the world.

Might as wwell as have given it to Canada or Bermuda?

It is woke Marxism again. The Oppressed vs the Oppressor. The US/UK are white and the oppressors and thus hold the island was wrong. It must be given back to the oppressed. Silly, but it is how the left thinks.

The US/UK are white and the oppressors and thus hold the island was wrong. It must be given back to the oppressed.

And doubly so since the "oppressed" they want to give it back to never owned it!

Is there personal self-interest at work here as well?

Keir Starmer's pal is top legal adviser on Chagos Islands for Mauritius
The Prime Minister faces questions over his relationship with Philippe Sands KC.

Sir Keir Starmer's close friend is Mauritius's chief legal adviser, it has emerged. The Prime Minister, who is facing widespread fury over the UK's decision to hand over sovereignty of the Chagos Islands, will face further questions over his relationship with Philippe Sands KC.

Sands is the chief legal adviser for the island and has argued for Mauritian control of the islands.

link

This is weird and disappointing, but not unexpected, right?

I am confident that between new technologies, shifting alliances, and so forth that my *grandchildren*, when they come of professional age, will make good use of the *decades* they will have to solve the problem.

As for the improvements, there is a poem that addresses this, but I'm not going to be the one to refer to it.

Form wikipedia:

"In 2019, the International Court of Justice ruled that the UK's administration of the Chagos Archipelago was illegal, a decision supported by the United Nations.

On 3 October 2024, the UK prime minister Keir Starmer announced in a statement with the Mauritian prime minister Pravind Jugnauth that the UK will hand over the Chagos islands to Mauritius. The joint base on the island will stay, with the UK initially taking a 99 year lease of the base from Mauritius. Mauritius will be allowed to begin resettlement on the Chagos Archipelago, but not on Diego Garcia due to the sensitive nature of the base. US president Joe Biden welcomed the agreement, saying that it was a "clear demonstration that through diplomacy and partnership, countries can overcome long-standing historical challenges to reach peaceful and mutually beneficial outcomes"

So:
* UK follows the ruling of the ICJ, and in doing so avoids further discussion about the Falklands and Gibraltar.
* The US has 99 years to relocate their base (should be sufficient time)

Labor Government.

The gift that keeps on taking….

TVAG

The ICJ is marxist to the core and has no power aside from what a nation grants it. The UK could have told the ICJ to pound sand, AND Mauritius has no historic ties to Diego Garcia.

The US has 99 years to relocate their base (should be sufficient time)

Nope -- Mauritius holds the deal and could tell the US and UK to leave at anytime, and then the ICJ and UN will say, we support Mauritius' right to self determination -- Yankees go home! And the People's Republic of China will bring it up in the security council and no doubt volunteer to help the US pack…

We should do what the French do – which is declare that bits of rock thousands of miles away are part of Metropolitan France.

DBDD

I think Trump should just have the US buy it when he assumes office. After that, Greenland. Okay, I'm not serious about Greenland.

"AND Mauritius has no historic ties to Diego Garcia."

BUT it does! I already knew this but a modicum of research produced this:

link

Would you like to outline the US's historic ties to DG?
If you want to use naked aggression to extend your strategic reach, please be honest & don't make silly statements.

I believe that Mauritius wouldn't be a place many Americans have heard of. I would think that if you are going to make pronouncements on it, you might inform yourselves?

I've been to Mauritius several times &, indeed, expect to stop off next year on my way to Europe. Interestingly, friends in Port Louis (the capital) have Diego Garcians living next door.

The inhabitants of DG were forcibly removed from their homes in the '60s. Most went to Mauritius (now there's a tie!) & were welcomed by the government & the locals. I believe many long to get their home back.

Mauritius itself is a Western democracy. The Constitution of Mauritius states that the Republic of Mauritius includes the islands of Agalιga, Mauritius, Rodrigues, Saint Brandon (Cargados Carajos shoals), Tromelin Island, and the Chagos Archipelago (including Diego Garcia and other associated islands Good Lord! Another tie!!). So they've a track record of administering the various specks of land in the Indian Ocean.

It is very multi-cultural but with a strong French influence eg of the 3 official languages, French & French Creole are in front of English.There are strong ties to France & French holiday-makers provide much foreign currency. NB it is not in their best interests to offend Europe.it is, BTW, stunningly beautiful, very safe & a great holiday destination.

There is NO evidence that Mauritius intends to offer DG to the Chinese for a military base. This is the baseless claim by a right wing British MP who has NO proof. NB you can have trade relations with the Chinese without being in thrall & maintain a good relationship with the US- Australia? Iceland? Singapore? New Zealand? Paranoia aside, a 99 year lease isn't good enough???? You do know that the US commonly leases bases in many foreign countries? Japan, for example.

Mauritius is reasonably prosperous with poverty at about 10% – I believe the US has +11%. The locals value education & are highly educated. Mauritius ranks 93rd in world education rankings. It's biggest problem is that many young graduates have to move to France or Australia for employment opportunities as the country is small. Only ignorance & paranoia would cast such a nation as villain.

There is NO evidence that Mauritius intends to offer DG to the Chinese for a military base. This is the baseless claim by a right wing British MP who has NO proof.

Why the fruck would you risk that? Why would you give control of a key base to the ally of our most serious adversary?

Oh, and also from your link:

"No tangible evidence exists of people on Diego Garcia before the arrival of Europeans. There is speculation about visits during the Austronesian diaspora around AD 700, as some say the old Maldivian name for the islands originated from Malagasy. Arabs, who reached Lakshadweep and Maldives around AD 900, may have visited the Chagos. Southern Maldivian oral tradition tells of occasional traders and fishermen marooned on, and later rescued from, unnamed islands of the Chagos…

…Diego Garcia was discovered by Portuguese sailors in 1512 and remained uninhabited until the French began using it as a leper colony and for coconut plantations in the late 18th century. After the Napoleonic Wars, the island was transferred to British control."

AND the "local inhabitants" weren't – they were contract workers brought to DG for the coconut plantation and "In 1966, Diego Garcia had a population of 924,[6] mostly contract workers employed in coconut plantations. However, between 1968 and 1973, the Chagossian inhabitants were forcibly removed to make way for the military base." [aka as their contracts were terminated and they were given resettlement money].

AND

"Diego Garcia remains the only inhabited island of the BIOT, with its population consisting of military personnel and contractors."

Mauritius' claim is based on the fact that DG is part of the same underwater mountain chain that pokes out of the waves 1,312 miles away from DG. It has no historical ties, no sovereignty ties, no cultural ties -- so talk about some great lobbying, eh? Get control of an island you've never controlled some 1,300 miles away based on feelz!!

Only ignorance & paranoia would cast such a nation as villain.

1. They are acting pretty greedy and villainous to guilt the dumb-a@@ Brits into ceding control of a key strategic base just 'cause they want it.

2. Capabilities, not intentions -- Mauritius is part of Belt and Road and is basically owned by China. China has built all of their major infrastructure, and Mauritius is the first – and to date, only – African nation to sign and activate a free trade agreement (FTA) with Beijing. China is also playing up the ethnic Chinese ties with the island nation, "A significant portion of the Mauritian population is of Chinese descent, known as Sino-Mauritians, having arrived on the island between the 17th and 19th centuries."

There are also allegations that China has set up surveillance posts in the islands. And as we've seen in the South Pacific, China does not make these investments without quid pro quo, and ultimately we see China building military grade infrastructure on Guadalcanal and other islands to create a line of bases similar to Japan's WW2 strategy to isolate Australia.

So why on earth would you even step an inch towards destabilizing DG?

Boy, you don't like when people point out how utterly wrong you are? Ranting & cursing. Try to keep it civil (or apologise for being wrong?)

Do you remember the final scene in Orwell's 'Animal Farm'?
Where the animals are looking at the pigs & the farmers & are unable to tell them apart? Is there much difference between the self-serving rants of the Chinese, pushing their own agendas, & your American "justifications" for seizing any real estate they want? Taiwan & Diego Garcia.Farmers & pigs, indeed.

So because there were just 900 original DGs, they don't have any rights? I'm glad you've given your perspective on justice, American-style. Nice try to make the DGs sound like new-comers. They were brought there in the mid 1800s.

So, in spite of your baseless, proof-free assertions, the Mauritians do have links to DG,do have legal rights to DG, are not Chinese-stooges & have actually offered the base to the US for 99 years. Rather than pick your "arguments" & empty insinuations apart one by one, let's look at your referral to Mauritius as a Chinese "ally". They have a TRADE agreement. Nothing more. By your estimation, the US with its trade agreements with China, is an ally. Oh my god! Red's under American beds!

Let's forget fair-play, justice and what's obviously right if America wants it. Pigs & farmers.

BTW there were no people on Mauritius before the coming of the Europeans either. Why don't you expel all the Mauritians too & take over?

Rant? Nah, you through some bombs and I threw facts back at ya, and now you're angry about it.

About the displacement – each family was given $5,000 USD and transportation, most chose Mauritius. The average earnings there in 1972 was about $300 USD, so that represented 17 years worth of income. Oh, what did the government of Mauritius do? Welcomed them and then SIEZED the families' settlement payments! Nice, huh?

"So, in spite of your baseless, proof-free assertions, the Mauritians do have links to DG,do have legal rights to DG,"

Where? The article you posted shows NO links to DG except they share opposite ends of the same underwater mountain chain.

And you're coming at this from a different world view. You seem to have a trust for the Mauritius government for some reason. But governments change, leadership and motives change, and there was no reason to expose such a key base to any uncertainty. Maybe go read up on how China flipped the government on Guadalcanal, eh?

You're sounding very shrill now.
I'm not angry. I am right, though (bet that burns).
As you clearly have nothing to add to your specious "arguments", false analogies, loaded words etc. I'll leave you in your bubble.

Trust me, there's some governments I don't trust. I won't insult you by listing them.

SB +1 on your last 2 posts.

It is still real estate which can purchased for the right price. Make them a deal. Maybe they're Republicans.

"It is still real estate which can purchased for the right price. Make them a deal. Maybe they're Republicans."

AHHHH! 🤔 You're saying: "An offer they can't refuse". Excellent!

Subject: makes an offer he can't refuse 🤌 – YouTube


YouTube link

You're sounding very shrill now.
I'm not angry. I am right, though (bet that burns).

No, just amazed that you reflexively sided with the tenuous claims of Mauritius that has no ties to DG other than "some people moved there" and "we wants it," and that you have such an abiding trust because you did a vacay there -- and not at all interested in the strategic implications of such a stunningly stupid move, or that potential conflict of interest that the PM's friend is the one leading Mauritius' efforts to get territory that was never theirs. Oh well.

The original lease agreement with the UK ended in 2016. A twenty year extension was accepted that means the lease would end in 2036. There was no guarantee of a new extension and, if the possible trade war that all the sensationalist journalists are screaming about happens, a possibility the UK would not offer another extension.

Now the US has a "guaranteed" (as much as anything liable to political interference can be guaranteed) lease for 99 years. To me that looks like a win. But the Mauritians (and I suspect some people read that as "Martians"- how many of those who are stating "facts" about Mauritius had even heard of it until this thread was posted?) have a trade deal with the Evil Empire Mk II (PRC)! So some feel the need to tout that the US annexe the island (the cooler heads suggest buying it).

I look forward to the outrage and calls for annexation when the leases for the US bases here come up for renewal. We are probably in the same basket as the rest of the commie world that surrounds the US, and can't be trusted.

"An offer they can't refuse". Excellent!

Where was that thread about why the US can't be trusted…..? TMP link

Perhaps if the US treated Mauritius with a bit of respect and trust then the US' "Godfather Approach" wouldn't be needed?

"Perhaps if the US treated Mauritius with a bit of respect and trust then the US' "Godfather Approach" wouldn't be needed?"

"It's not personal, it's strictly business" 😉

Subject: It 's strictly business.wmv – YouTube


YouTube link

I think some of you should make up your minds whether the US should be the world's policeman, or should keep away from foreign affairs and isolate itself. In the latter case, you don't need any bases, anywhere.

This whole event could perhaps be seen as foreshadowing…. Should Europe take the hypothetical path of strategic autonomy.

I find it difficult to conclude this is somehow a major strategic calamity. Measured against say, I don't know, may be concluding a separate peace which ended in the violent overthrow of a notionally friendly government and its replacement with a regime that has previously supported global terror….

And frankly by the time the lease is up you'll be lucky if it isn't virtually under water.

Maybe go read up on how China flipped the government on Guadalcanal

Maybe go read up on how Russia flipped the government of the USA.

"Maybe go read up on how Russia flipped the government of the USA."

You are one election behind, that was 2020. 🤣

Great movie, 35th, but a pith-poor approach to "diplomacy".

Dagwood +1.

I missed this before:

the tenuous claims of Mauritius that has no ties to DG other than "some people moved there" and "we wants it,"

Now let's replace "Mauritius" with "USA" and "DG" with any of "Hawaii", "Guam", "American Samoa", "Texas", "California", "New Mexico", "US Virgin Islands" (bought and paid for, not just seized), "Guantanamo Bay", etc. Pot versus kettle time, it seems? What's more Mauritius' administration of Diego Garcia predates all the aforementioned "acquisitions".

It makes a change from maps that show PRC naval bases in Cairns and Darwin, as well as right through the SW Pacific islands, but has the same level of accuracy.

Dagwood 27 Nov 2024 1:28 p.m. PST
I think some of you should make up your minds whether the US should be the world's policeman, or should keep away from foreign affairs and isolate itself. In the latter case, you don't need any bases, anywhere

Dang, you're right! Here I am trapped in old-think! Decommission DG and bring 'em home, and let you all figure out how to guarantee global maritime commerce when you've all pretty much gutted your navies. Plus you don't like American power much and get pretty snippy until you need the help of American power…time to stand on your own two feet again, eh? Whew, much easier now – thanks!

In the list of reasons why Americans aren't all that enthusiastic about foreign entanglements, "rude snark from foreigners" plays a larger role than you might think.

"Great movie, 35th, but a pith-poor approach to "diplomacy"."

So having them "Sleep With The Fishes" is unacceptable? 🤔

"rude snark from foreigners" plays a larger role than you might think

That sword cuts both ways, NPR.

So having them "Sleep With The Fishes" is unacceptable? 🤔

It depends. How pretty are the fishes, 35th?

"It depends. How pretty are the fishes, 35th?"

Well , I had one simple request, and that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!

All they could give me were mutated sea bass with bad tempers! 🤬

😉

I'll make sure I remember that the next time we need an ally to send a carrier battle group, a couple of divisions' worth of troops, or a few billion dollars in aid.

OK, 35th, you win. I've no defence against mutated sea bass.

I'll make sure I remember that the next time we need an ally to send a carrier battle group, a couple of divisions' worth of troops, or a few billion dollars in aid.

I doubt it. link

(To be fair, it's pretty universal, especially with politicians and the media.)

"Maybe go read up on how Russia flipped the government of the USA."

Them Russkies didn't do that … a very small very well-funded, very vocal, very far left woke progressive socialists in the US Gov't did it. With $ from others just like them with all the $. USD With no stopping them by the current admin in the WH. Hell they were part of it I tell ya !!!! They all did what the Russkies and Chicoms couldn't do for decades! "Death from within!" "We have met the enemy and they is us !"

It is woke Marxism again. The Oppressed vs the Oppressor. The US/UK are white and the oppressors and thus hold the island was wrong. It must be given back to the oppressed. Silly, but it is how the left thinks.

Frakk it we'll just have Musk buy it and put a Starbucks and Burger King on the island. They won't feel so oppressed then ! I guess that is a good example of an "Ugly American"?

I think Trump should just have the US buy it when he assumes office. After that, Greenland. Okay, I'm not serious about Greenland.

I like my idea better. And Greenland is no longer the market. IIRC Denmark already no !

Make them a deal. Maybe they're Republicans.

Hey ! Crap Game !

Only ignorance & paranoia would cast such a nation as villain.

Can I be Batman !!!

Rude snark from foreigners indeed – as Arthur Conan Doyle's character in the Tragedy of the Korosko said: "remarked Cecil Brown, "It's my opinion that we have been the policemen of the world long enough. We policed the seas for pirates and slavers. Now we police the land for Dervishes and brigands and every sort of danger to civilisation. There is never a mad priest or a witch doctor, or a firebrand of any sort on this planet, who does not report his appearance by sniping the nearest British officer. One tires of it at last. If a Kurd breaks loose in Asia Minor, the world wants to know why Great Britain does not keep him in order. If there is a military mutiny in Egypt, or a Jehad in the Soudan, it is still Great Britain who has to set it right. And all to an accompaniment of curses such as the policeman gets when he seizes a ruffian among his pals. We get hard knocks and no thanks, and why should we do it? Let Europe do its own dirty work."

Now let's replace "Mauritius" with "USA" and "DG" with any of "Hawaii", "Guam", "American Samoa", "Texas", "California",

heck…kalifornia is already a bannana republik with a Junta

Maybe we should take a leaf from China's playbook and build our own island.

Dagwood..maybe you are right. We might be done with almost everybody and not need these places. Most of us cannot find anything on a map.

We are feeling a little insecure these days because we remain hopelessly split as a nation. If you need help, even we won't know if we are coming or not. We will be using some of our defense budget for deportation, maintaining a strong navy to not use, slowing down our economy. Just stay back everybody. We have nukes, plus half a billion guns and we mostly know how to use them. Shifting our defense industry to tin hats just in case anybody tries anything.

+1 Dagwood.

"tin hats just in case anybody tries anything."

But tis better by far, then the clown 🤡 costumes of the last 4 years. 😉😂

But on a somewhat serious note: SB Doyle had the right of it. I'm sure the Brits of his time, might commiserate with us today.

One thing is certain- the Chinese and Russians will be far less tolerant of the snarky rudeness, if it ever comes to that.

You can't blame a Prez for the defense industry. It is a creature of corporate culture and Congress….

I am reminded of what S I Hayakawa said about the Panama Canal. "We stole it fair and square! We should keep it!"
Diego Garcia is one of the British Isles? Interesting!

Well I've had the cigars of his brothers, "Garcia & Vega" and "Jamie Garcia", but never a "Diego Garcia".

heck…kalifornia is already a bannana republik with a Junta

Bingo !!!!

"We stole it fair and square! We should keep it!"

Damn those white oppressors !!!!

So much of this talking about indigenous peoples' lands did happen long ago. In some cases, long, long ago. We can't rewrite history, even if some will try. That was the standard back in those times. Besides none of us were there. Well maybe John was?

Regardless, it has been said recently a number of times. IIRC the term is "presentism"? I.e. We can't put today's standards, norms, etc. on events that happened long ago. E.g. slavery is the big one, the treatment of the American Indians aka indigenous peoples, etc.

I'd think the best we could do is at least provide/take care, etc. of some of those that need it and qualify. No not reparations, that is blaming the sons for the sins of their fathers. Again, none of us were there. Hell, my people didn't get here until 1905.

So I think this can be worked out with the US staying there as it is strategically important to the USA, and other countries' national security, etc.

Of course Zuckerburg just visited the POTUS elect at his home in FL. Maybe he and Musk can split the check. Like at going to lunch with a friend, etc. Ok that may just be hyperbole.

But one thing I'm pretty sure about … the "white oppressors" are not going to go back from where they came from. E.g. most of us are from Europe, Africa, Asia, etc. That is what most of us Americans are here on TMP. [Not talking about you other guys, you are on your own!] When I hear people saying something like going back to where we came from, etc. It couldn't be a more ridiculous, illogical, unreasonable, just plain stupid, etc., etc.

Whether it is Diego Garcia, the USA, etc., etc. we are not going anywhere. And many of the "we" are indigenous peoples, or some may have come here in chains, etc., etc. But my experience most do see themselves as Americans[well not those on Diego Garcia maybe!].

Hey, talking about Garcia, check out Niki Garcia the former WWF[or WWE ?] wrestler. She and her twin sister were known as the Bella twins, IIRC. Hubba, hubba ! Of course she could probably kick most of our s ! But I might just like it ! 😁😎

If the US government is worried about whether Mauritius will renege on the lease, why don't they offer to buy the island? Or look for an alternative location (eg Maldives)?

Or is it possible the government has spoken to Mauritius and the UK, doesn't read TMP, and isn't worried?

Well I've had the cigars of his brothers, "Garcia & Vega" and "Jamie Garcia", but never a "Diego Garcia".

Don't miss Don Diego, from the Dominican Republic.

I used to smoke them with my pal Johnny Walker and his brothers Blackie and Red.

Me, I smoke with my pal Jack Daniel's
And his partner Jimmy Beam. 😉