"1799 Italian Campaign OOB Question" Topic

I'm working on this campaign and am using Duffy's "Eagles over the Alps" as my primary source. At p50 it has an OOB for the beginning of the campaign. In it, for the Austrians, is:

Div Lt-Gen Ott
6th Banal Croats
d'Aspre Jaeger (6 coys).

Both these units are unknown to me. Does anyone know of their uniforms, organisation and performance? I had read that whilst Austria had arguably the most proficient light infantry in the SYW, largely because of their Grenz units, inexplicably these units were sought to be fashioned into line units, diminishing their effectiveness.

Any help gratefully received.

Did you see this earlier thread?
TMP link

Thanks BillyNM. How stupid of me not to do such a simple search!

I did do a search for 6th Banal Croats and variations but came up empty. Any suggestions on how I might find out more about that unit?

I can't guarantee you'll find out about 6th Banal Croats, but for a ton of information about 1799, you could try Enrico Acerbi's works:
link

(Obviously I recommend these as well, but they don't give that kind of detail:)
link
link

I'm guessing they are grenzer units from the military boarder districts the Hapsburgs created, one of which was the Banal between the Upper and Lower boarder districts on the Hungarian boarder.

Would anyone know of their 1799 uniforms?

From David Hollins Austrian Frontier Troops 1740-1798 there were only two Banal Grenz Regiments, IR69 and IR70 (1st and 2nd Banal) had carmine red facings with yellow and white buttons respectively. Removed from the line in 1799. They became Grenz Regiments numbers 10 and 11. For what's worth, Grenz 6 was Warasdiner St. Georger.
I vaguely recall that the grenzer were so under strength after the Turkish wars that they sen composite battalions to the field(whether that was still true in 1799, I don't know.
Hope this helps some.

Valmy92 that is a help, as from your post it now seems very likely the "6th Banal Croats" is a reference to a Grenz unit (can't think what else it might be).

Would you know what headgear Grenz units might have been wearing in 1799? Presumably they weren't part of the Kasquet/helmet caffuffle that seemed to take a while to be implemented. But given there were significant uniform reforms at that time, it is possible they underwent changes as well.

Thanks for reminding me of your Clausewitz translation Chris. I have it on my to buy list.

I think I have found my answer on Gonsalvo's excellent uniform compendium:

In 1798, a white jacket cut and faced similarly to the line units was adopted for field service. It was worn with medium to light blue trousers with gold and black braid on the seams and knots, similar to the Hungarian Line infantry units. A shako without a peak (visor), called a klobuk, was worn. The cuffs were pointed with white baerentatzen lace similar to the Hungarian regiments.

Lazy research on my part, but just what I was after.

The 6th Banal Grenz battalion was brigaded with companies of d'Aspre Jaeger throughout 1799. See Nafziger's OOB's, for example 799EAD. I could find seven Banal Grenz battalions each with sequential numbering. Since the Grenz regiments each had two battalions I suggest the units appearing in these OOBs were simply a few companies strong, since they were still being used in a light infantry capacity.
Kind regards
Allan

Not so small units for Banal (though spelt Banat here) – see Nafziger 799CAE:
Austrian Army of Italy
20 March l799
Division: Generallieutenant Mercantin
Brigadier: Generalmajor Klenau
Wurmser Hussar Regiment #8 (8)(l,404)
Am-Ende Light Infantry Battalion #3 (760)
Bach Light Infantry Battalion #4 (820)
Szlunier Croatian Infantry Regiment (l)(l,l8l)
Banat Croatian Infantry Regiment (l)(l,050)
Brigade: Generalmajor Mitrowsky
Fro"lich Infantry Regiment #28 (3)(3,002)
Vacant Infantry Regiment #23 (3)(2,l86)
Brigade: Generalmajor A. Legnago (4,583)
Lattermann Infantry Regiment #45 (3)
3/Fu"rstemberg Infantry Regiment #36 (l)
3/Gyulay Infantry Regiment #32 (l)
Division: Generallieutenant Froelich (provisonally
commanded by Generalmajor Lusignan
Brigade: Generalmajor Lusignan
Thurn Infantry Regiment #43 (3)(l,350)
Reisky Infantry Regiment #l3 (3)(2,428)
Brigade: Generalmajor Lttermann
Nadasty Infantry Regiment #39 (3)(3,24l)
Mercantin Grenadier Battalion (#24,28,45)(l)(752)
Fiquelmont Grenadier Battalion (#l3,l4,43)(l)(754)
Weber Grenadier Battalion (#l0,l8,36)(l)(783)
Khorherr (Hungarian) Grenadier Battalion (#l9,34,39)
(l)(779)
Neny Grenadier Battalion (#8,44,46)(l)(388)
Brigade: Generalmajor Doller
Levenehr Dragoon Regiment (6)(l,l62)
7th Hussar Regiment (8)(l,32l)
Division: Generallieutenant Keim
Brigade: Generalmajor Elsnitz
5th Hussar Regiment (8)(l,404)
Plank Jagers (d'Aspre Jager Corps) (2)(l,l47)
Oguliner Croatian Infantry Regiment (l)(l,245)
7th Warasdiner Croatian Infantry Regiment(l)(l,l74)
Brigade: Generalmajor Gottesheim
Jordis Infantry Regiment #59 (2)(l,7l4)
Jellachich Infantry Regiment #53 (2)(l,850)
Brigade: Generalmajor Minkowitz
Vacant (Hungarian) Infantry Regiment #48 (2)(l,482)
Wilhem Schro"der Infantry Regiment #26 (3)(2,27l)
Pers Grenadier Battalion (#32,48,53) (l)(767)
Garrison of Verona:
3/Jordis Infantry Regiment #59 (l)(846)
3/Jellachach Infantry Regiment #53 (l)(909)
Vacant (Hungarian) Infantry Regiment #48 (l)(72l)
Plank Jagers (d'Aspre)(327)
Division: Generallieutenant Kray (provisionally commanded by
Count Hohenzollern)
Brigade: Generalmajor Morzin
Samuel Gyulay Infantry Regiment #32 (2)(2,087)
Mitrowsky Infantry Regiment #40 (3)(3,032)
Stentsch Grenadier Battalion (#26,40,59)(l)(776)
Brigade: Generalmajor Hohenzollern
Karaczay Dragoon Regiment #4 (6) (l,085)
Lobkowitz Dragoon Regiment #l0 (6)(l,l04)
Independant Brigade: Generalmajor Liptay
Fu"rstenberg Infantry Regiment #36 (2)(l,856)
Klebeck Infantry Regiment #l4(3)(2,307)
Reserves en Route:
Division: Generallieutenant Zoph
Brigade: Generalmajor St. Julien
Anton Esterhazy Infantry Regiment #34 (3)(2,877)
Alvinzy Infantry Regiment #l9 (3)(2,502)
Brigade: Generalmajor Kowachewich
Huff Infantry Regiment #8 (3)(2,849)
4/Banat Croatian Infantry Regiment(l)(905)
6/Banat Croatian Infantry Regiment(l)(929)
Division: Generallieutenant Ott
Brigade: Generalmajor Seckendorf
Archduke Joseph Hussar Regiment (8)(l,424)
Emperor Dragoon Regiment (6)(l,0l5)
Brigade: Generalmajor Lichtenstein
Wurtemberg Dragoon Regiment (6)(l,ll4)
Kavanagh Cuirassier Regiment (6)(963)
Detached Troops:
Venice Garrison: Generalmajor Montfrault
Stuart Infantry Regiment(3)(2,540)
Kewuhl Infantry Regiment(3)(2,660)
Triest Garrison:
Belgioso Infantry Regiment(3)(2,000)
Stationed in Carinthia:
Ottochaner Croatian Infantry Regiment(l)(763)
Licaner Croatian Infantry Regiment(l)(l,l73)
2/Oguliner Croatian Infantry Regiment(l)(l,023)
Banat Croatian Infantry Regiment(l)(l,030
Trevise Garrison
Bussy Chevauleger Regiment (8)(l,300)

Austria – Schematismus der Kais. Königl. Armée shows the Banal Grenz with carmine facings.

From Nafziger OoB 799DAB:
Austrian
Principal Acting Army in Italy
27 April l799
Corps: General Melas
Division:
A.Esterhazy Infantry Regiment (2)(l,074)
Mittrowsky Infantry Regiment (2)(l,279)
Stein Grenadier Battalion (l)(620)
Hersh Grenadier Battalion(l)(l99)
Erzherzog Josef Hussar Regiment (4 sqns)(576)
Division: Frolich
Stuart Infantry Regiment (2)(l,74l)
Alvinczy Infantry Regiment (2 l/2)(l,655)
Weber Grenadier Battalion (l)(457)
Paar Grenadier Battalion (l)(520)
Finkel Grenadier Battalion (l)(582)
Korherr Grenadier Battalion (l)(6l8)
Lobkowitz Dragoon Regiment (l)(6)(836)
Division: Keinmayer
Preiss Infantry Regiment (2)(l,424)
Frolich Infantry Regiment (2)(2,370)
Levenehr Dragoon Regiment (6)(8 50)
Division: Prince Russkich Voiskakh
Kavanaugh Dragoon Regiment (6)(934)
Kaiser Dragoon Regiment (6)(l,0l5)
Archduke Josef Hussar Regiment (5)(575)
Corps: General Ott
M.Wallis Infantry Regiment (l)(795)
Nadasty Infantry Regiment (2)(2,l06)
6th Banal Grenz Battalion (l)(546)
d'Aspre Jager Corps (6 cos)(7l3)
6th sqn, 7th Hussar Regiment (l88)
Corps: General Vukasovich
Erzherzog Anton Infantry Regiment (3)
Wallis Infantry Regiment (2)
Zettwitz Siegenfeld Infantry Regiment (2)
Luigi Rogan Infantry Regiment (2)
Karl Rogan Infantry Regiment (l)
Weisenwolf Grenadier Battalion (l)
Carnville Infantry Regiment (l)
lst Banal Grenz Battalion (l)
5th Banal Grenz Battalion (l)
2nd Banal Grenz Battalion (l)
Le Loup Ja"ger Corps (4 cos)
Erdo"dy Hussar Regiment (2)
7th Hussar Regiment (6)
Corps:
Division: General Latterman
Reisky Infantry Regiment (3)(l,85l)
Terzi Infantry Regiment (3)(l,
5th Hussar Regiment (2)(246)
Division: General Seckendorf
Gyulai Infantry Regiment (2)(l,482)
Fu"rstenberg Infantry Regiment (3)(2,575)
5th Hussar Regiment (6)(826)
Corps: C.Zhyulben, Elbsen, Klenau
Klebek Infantry Regiment (3)(l,722)
Jellachich Infantry Regiment (3)(l,4l2)
Latterman Infantry Regiment (l)(l,027)
Szuliner Grenz Regiment (l)(l,l40)
4th Banal Grenz Battalion (l)(4l8)
Ero"dy Infantry Regiment (3)(l,728)
48th Hungarian Regiment (3 bns)(l,428)
Oguliner Grenz Regiment (l)(950)
2nd Banal Grenz Battalion (l)(l,046)
Am Ende Infantry Regiment (l)(692)
Erbach Infantry Regiment (l)(794)
d'Aspre Jagers (4 cos)(485)
Nauendorf Hussar Regiment (8)(l,272)
Garrisons:
Mittrovsky Infantry Regiment (l)(723) (Bresica)
C.Schro"der Infantry Regiment (3)(l,l62)(Verona)
Latterman Infantry Regiment (3)(5l7)(Legnago)
Stuart Infantry Regiment (l)(928)(Venice)
Kheul Infantry Regiment (3)(2,5l4)(Venice)
Other Garrisons:
Belgiojoso Infantry Regiment (3)(822)
Liccaner Grenz Regiment (l)(l,00l)
Ottocaner Grenz Regiment (2)(2,352)
Oguliner Grenz Regiment (l)(96l)
4th Banal Grenz Battalion (l)(765)
Neni Grenadier Battalion (l bn)(265)
Corps:
Waradeiner Grenz Regiment (3)
Huff Infantry Regiment (l)
Gyulai Infantry Regiment (l)
Anton Esterhazy Infantry Regiment (l)
Alvinzy Infantry Regiment (4 cos)
Kavanaugh Dragoon Regiment (6)
Wu"rttemberg Dragoon Regiment (6)
Bussy Chevauxleger Regiment (8)

Note on Translation: The transliteration of German (and Italian) into Russian and then back into English has proven extremely difficult. Though the names of the regiments are quite certain, the names of the various grenadier battalions are subject to some question. Those names shown are the best Germanification I could make of the Russian cyrillic. Apologies for any errors.
Milirtin, D.A. Count, Istoriia voiny Rossti s Frantsieiu, St. Petersburg, l852

Banal and Banat were two completely different recruiting areas, as you know. I am puzzled why we seem to have many more battalions than were actually raised.
Theoretical strength for a Grenz-Ordinär-Kompagnie in 1792-1814 was 254 so 1,524 for the battalion plus the Grenz-Regiments-Stabs of 57 (excluding the 56 artillerists) thus four battalions of either the two Banal or two Banat regiments would add up to 6,210, which is obviously more than the total number (3,914) cited in the OOB above.
I have pompadour for the Banal facings, which I presume is similar to carmine.
Any suggestions on the large number of battalions?

Austrians paired companies into Grand-Divisions. Perhaps they're not all full battalions – just Grand-divisions counted as such.

Wrede has uniform for the Banal Grenz in 1798 as:
1st Banal: dunkelbrauner Rock, carmoisinrotlie Egalisierung, lichtblaue Hosen, gelbe Knöpfe.
2nd Banal: dunkelbrauner Rock, carmoisinrothe Egalisierung, lichtblaue Hosen, weisse Knöpfe.

Will see if I can track down an answer on why the larger number than expected number of battalions…

@Stoppage
Could be. I do know that in the French army an infantry unit of at least two companies/platoons could be described as a battalion. As I suggested earlier, maybe each of these Banal Grenz units is an ad-hoc battalion of varying numbers of companies. The d'Aspre Jaeger are distributed in more than one unit in the same way.

@Prince of Essling
So Wrede has both regiments in brown jackets? I thought these were introduced in 1807, replacing white. Thank you for the update.

@Allan F Mountford

I think the Banal numbering relates to the 2 regiments (battalions being numbered sequentially?). Were the 3rd battalions deployed into the field to get to number 6? Will take a peek at "Specialgeschichte der Militärgrenze volume 4" by Fr. Vaniceck to see what he has to say.

As to Wrede – I would treat with a little caution as from comments elsewhere he is not always spot on. Like you I was bit surprised at his "dunkelbrauner Rock".

Have just re-read the Osprey MAA on the Austrian Army – "In peacetime the Grenzers wore their ordinary brown coat, a felt cap (Klobuk), and ordinary trousers. When mobilised, the official uniform was white waistcoat and breeches…….In 1808 the difference between ordinary ('Haus') and field uniform was suspended, though the white uniform was apparently retained by some despite new regulations which authorised a shako, dark brown infantry coat with regimental facings and sky blue Hungarian breeches."

Need to get Ottenfeld & Teuber out to see what they have to say on the uniform.

Ian

@ Let's Party with Cossacks

I intended to do this period about 2 years ago. The one area on which I could find little or no information was the artillery fielded by each army. I could not find an OOB listed it, so I hope you have better luck than I did.

though Wrede is a good source – as usual some mistakes occured – I would always cross check as with for example with the Militär Almanach and other primary sources. The Grenzer did have a brown uniform tunic which they wore when serving at the Grenze / frontier – but at the campaigns in central europe usually the white coat is worn, it is a misconception to show them in brown coats, this appeared at a later period as pointed out in about 1807 or later. Also beware of Ottenfeld and Teuber, some serious mistakes in this work generating entrenched myths, like light blue facings of 7th regiment instead of brown ones.

"Specialgeschichte der Militärgrenze volume 4" by Fr. Vaniceck doesn't explain the number of battalions in 1799.
Page 72 lists the following Grenz units for the Italien Armee under FML Kaim:
General Elsnitz Brigade: 1 battalion each from Oguliner & Warasdiner Kreuzer;
General Klenau Brigade: 1 battalion from Sluiner & 2 battalions from 2nd Banal Regiment;
General Lusignan Brigade: 6 battalions from Banater & 4 battalions from Banal;
General Koblos Brigade (Istria): 1 battalion Likaner, 2 battalions Otocaner, & 1 battalion Ogolunier;
General Kovacevic Brigade: 1 battalion (4th) Banater.
Also 1 battalion Warasdiner Kreuzer under Obristen Knezevic in Bellegarde's Tyrol Corps at Graubunten.

I have glanced at earlier years but cannot see any reason why higher strengths in some cases for example in Germany 1796 – 10 battalions Slavonische Grenz.

Thanks for this, Ian.
There is plainly a difference between the theoretical number of battalions (two field and one home defence) and the number recorded actually in the field.
Kovacevic's brigade appears to read 'das vierte Banater Bataillon (Nro. 12)' which I would expand to read '4th battalion Deutsch-Banater National-Grenz-Infanterie-Regimenter Nr. 12' so there is no issue in the author's mind that four battalions is unusual.

Following vW's suggestion about using the "Schematismus der Oesterreichisch-Kaiserlichen Armee", Grenz units first shown in Dark Brown coats (note there is no document for 1809) is as follows:

1810 Deutschbanater
1812 Warasdiner-St. Georger & 2nd Szekler
1813 Warasdiner-Creuzer, Brooder, Gradischaner, Peterwardeiner, Wallachisch-Illyrisches, 1st Szekler, 1st Walachisches & 2nd Walachisches

The only unit still wearing white in 1814 was Liccaner.

Thank you all for an enlightening discussion, well out of my league. It was more than I had hoped for and has given me a high degree of confidence that Gonsalvo's uniform descriptions are very soundly based (not that I had a basis to doubt that, but it is nice to see such detailed validation).