"Of what origin were their cannon limbers ?" Topic

Hello everyone,

What origin were the cannon limbers used during the ACW?
European?

Surely made locally?

Are you asking what they were based on?

I know that ACW cannon, caisson, limber and wagon wheels all had 14 spokes, and the European versions had 12 spokes. No idea when that change happened, but it was probably an American thing. Must have been a reason why we didn't just copy Napoleonic-era configurations.

They were made of oak and made in the good old USA

Here is a manual of just how to make one

link

ACW cannon, caisson, limber and wagon wheels all had 14 spokes as in the army of Napoleon III.

They have nothing to do with the limbers of the army of the Napoleonic era, but resemble like brothers those of the other Napoleonic era, that of the 12pdrs 'Napoleon'cannons/howitzers invented by Napoleon III which are the main artillery pieces of the ACW.

At Gettysburg Napoleons were a major part of both armies in the eastern theater, but not the main piece. They made up 39% of the Army of the Potomac, the balance were rifled artillery.

In the ANV Napoleons were 36% of the guns, the rest were rifles and some howitzers.

Western armies on both sides had far fewer Napoleons then the armies in the east. Both sides still had considerable numbers of 6 pound smoothbore's, howitzers, James rifles and other rifled pieces out west.

While the Napoleon was well liked, after the war only a couple of batteries were retained by the regular army and other then some mobile howitzers, the 3" Ordnance rifle became the armies artillery piece of choice for next 20 years.

Kim

French limbers were not used during the ACW?

I thought that when the Americans bought 'Napoleons' from France they also bought their limbers?

"Napoleon" is only a nick-name. They were not purchased from France. They were made and cast in the United States. The carriages were made in the United States as well.

The carriages, and limbers for cannon for the American Army were made in the same cities where the arsenals were located. Those would be Harper's Ferry, Richmond, Va. and Philadelphia, PA. The design was derived from the one George Washington had drawn up after the end of the American Revolution and modified thru the years as cannon weights increased. As the war progressed other factories were added in various cities in both North and South.

Note that the introduction of block trail carriages caused changes in the limbers. Napoleonic limbers (except the British) were triangular frames with a pintle sticking up that engaged a hole in the rearmost crosspiece of the split-trail gun carriage. This didn't work well with block trail carriages, which instead had a ring at the end of the trail which was engaged by a hook under the back of the limber.

Also, the Napoleon in question was not the first emperor, but his nephew, Napoleon III who designed a gun-howitzer for the French artillery which served, more or less, as the model for the M1827 12-pdr Gun-Howitzer called the Napoleon in US/CS service.

@Cleburne1863
What is the relationship between the American 'Napoleons' and the howitzer cannon invented by Napoleon III?

@vagamer63
All types of cannons had the same type of limber?

@rmaker
What are you talking about ?

I never wrote that the Napoleon in question was the first emperor?

After you,Napoleon III designed a gun-howitzer for the French artillery which served, more or less, as the model for the M1827 12-pdr Gun-Howitzer called the Napoleon in US/CS service???

Do you know where the future Napoleon III was in 1827?

He was 19 years old and had been in Rome with his mother since 1823.

It was well after 1827 that Napoleon III designated a howitzer cannon and not a howitzer for the French artillery, which no longer needed howitzers.

This 12 pdrs howitzer cannon, nicknamed the Emperor's Canon or Napoléon Canon in homage to Napoleon III, is a French field cannon and howitzer.

Used from 1853, this cannon had performance and versatility (its smooth barrel was capable of firing cannonball, shell or grapeshot) which made it replace the other 8 and 12 cannons as well as the "Vallée" howitzers.

This cannon was used for the first time by France during the Crimean War and was also used by the Union and the Confederate States of America during the Civil War.

In the French army, their tubes will be rifled from 1858 and these new rifled cannons will be used from the Italian campaign of 1859 which followed and will serve until 1873.

There has never been an M1827 12-pdr Gun-Howitzer called 'Napoleon' however I have not been able to find M1827 12-pdr Gun-Howitzer having existed…

The only well-known howitzer of the period is the famous U.S. 12-pounder howitzer is the M1841 12-pounder field howitzer which was a muzzle-loading bronze smooth-bore artillery piece that had been adopted by the United States Army in 1841 and used during the Mexican-American War and the American Civil War.

It fired an 8.9 lb (4.0 kg) shell to a distance of 1,072 yd (980 m) at an elevation of 5°.

It could also fire canisters and spherical rounds.

The howitzer proved effective when used by light artillery units during the Mexican-American War.

The howitzer was used throughout the American Civil War, but was outclassed by the 12-pounder Napoleon, which combined the functions of a field gun and howitzer.

In the U.S. Army, 12-pounder howitzers were replaced as soon as more modern weapons became available.

Although none were manufactured after 1862, the weapon was not officially abandoned by the United States Army until 1868 but he still served in 1877 against the Nez Perce.

The Confederate States of America also manufactured and used the howitzer during the American Civil War .

The US just copied the basic design and characteristics and made their own version in the Model 1857.

Sorry, typo. M1857.

@Cleburne1863
And what are their differences with the original canon model?

And for their limbers, what are their differences with the model of the original limber?

Mostly cosmetic that I can tell.
I don't know about the limbers.

Same limber that was used on the 24 pound 1841 model howitzer.

Kim

@All
So just like the carriagesTMP link
the limbers were different depending on the guns?

In 25mm the Old Glory guns are compatible with my dear 25mm MiniFigs Fortunately because this manufacturer sells 12 pdrs 'Napoleons', but in the photo they are identical and all the Old Glory guns have the same carriages?

Old glory also makes a "Product IDWBS-87 Pounder Howitzer 1854", I don't see what artillery piece it is?

Old glory makes a caisson but no limbers?

Please so as not to lose the thread of the conversation, if someone resumes our "conversation" notify me by pm with a link, thank you.

There were minor differences in diameter, thickness of the wood pieces, etc. But field carriages were mostly the same design.

For example, 6 lb. gun carriages were not the same as the 24 lb. howitzer carriages. At Chickamauga, a Confederate battery had 24 lb. Howitzers on 6 lb. carriages because that was all they had available. And the recoil broke them.

But the placement of the hardware, etc. was basically the same. Until you get to larger guns like the 30 lb. Parrot or so, its not going to make a difference on your miniatures.

@Cleburne1863
In any case, for the 'Napoleon', it's good that manufacturers are making a difference.

@KimRYoung

By the way are the limbers always unhitched in combat?

But how do they manage to retreat quickly in case of unforeseen circumstances?

I always thought that the limbers of the 19th century artillery and before remained harnessed during pitched battles.

Is this specific to the ACW?

Posted elsewhere:

I have read accounts of limber teams being removed to safety when the battery was not expected to be moved or would not be under attack.

This would be an exception, but like has been previously pointed out, when in a battle you sometimes improvise.

If the enemy was in close proximity, the teams would remain in place just in case the battery would have to be moved quickly as hi EEE ya asked.

Kim