"Grand tactical WW2 rules" Topic

Okay to my surprise a search for grand tactical in tmp didn't bring up any posts for WW2, so I am keen to ask if folks could list all the grand tactical scale land warfare rulesets ( I am an avid rules collector :) )

I think asking about granular and operational level was a bit muddled, and it's better to just go with a search for Grand Tactical scale and. By this really I am thinking rules that are greater than 1:1 scale

The titles I can think of so far are

SPEARHEAD
Kampfgruppe Commander II
Neuschwerpunkt
Combat HQ
Micro Armor WW2
Bewegungskrieg
Korps commander
Sitzkrieg ohne Hass
Abteilung WW2
Megablitz
Division Commander

What other titles are there? Am curious about battlegroup, Crossfire, Rapid Fire and Mein Panzer and where they fall

Georg, have you looked at Clash of Armor by Clash of Arms Games? A bit chart intensive compared to today's rules and they have an unusual way of tracking damage to units (cohesion hits). Each vehicle equals a troop/platoon, each infantry stand a platoon and each gun a battery. I've used them for divisional battles, albeit a long time ago. They are explained in more detail at TMP link, TMP link and TMP link .

If you don't like command and control rules, or lots of charts, then they may not suit you.

Battlegroup are my preferred rules. They are a tactical set, with each model representing a single vehicle, support weapon or soldier. Aimed at company-level actions but could stretch to battalion, I think.

Thanks dal, I suspected battlegroup is not grand tactical

As for clash of Armor, I think Kampfgruppe Commander is actually the successor to it as kampfgruppe commander 2 is also called clash of Armor 2 so I think they are related?

I tend to think about no of Grand Tactical as Brigade up to Division level. A few off the top of my head

Spearhead
Command Decision
Rapid Fire
Blitzkrieg Commander
Fistful of TOWs
Maybe Great Battles of WW2?

Crossfire is definitely tactical, company to battalion (I've never played with a full battalion). I guess Battlegroup is on the same category, as the elements are sections.

crossfire kind of sounds interesting with its use of initiative but i prefer more of a focus on armor than infantry

Rapid Fire is still an unknown to me.

the rules out that i see which i would really really be keen on are GBB -, but it seems to be in development limbo

Rommel. Each base is a company. Squares are 1km
Battlefront:ww2. Each base is a squad, vehicle models are 2 or 3 vehicles

You may be right, Georg. I know that the rules are no longer on the Clash of Arms site, but they still have two scenario books there and refer to the original name.

Here is my rulebook collection tracker. Try sorting it by period….

link

Panzer Korps. Stands are companies.

Panzer Korps. Stands are companies.

And the smallest maneuver element is a battalion

Mein Panzer is an excellent set of rules in my opinion. It does not fall into the category of grand tactical as each vehicle or gun = 1 vehicle or gun and each stand represents a squad or team.

Each player usually a company sized unit or maybe company plus. I would not classify this as a skirmish game but plays well up to a battalion plus with multiple players.

Fistful of TOWs 3 is also a great set of rules and does fall into the category of grand tactical.

thanks – the list Extra Crispy is very useful – alot of napoleonic titles there also i have not heard of!

i like what Clash of Arms puts out so i am curious to know what Clash of Armor 2 might be – if it is the case that Kampfgruppe Commander did continue that series of not

I thought Abteilung WW2 would be grand tactical

I would consider Command Decision to be at the bottom of the Grand Tactical category. You typically play a regiment and a normal sized game table represents roughly a 2.5 mile square area. Multiplayer games with a full division per side are well within reach for the game.

Division Commander is 1 Stand is 1 Battalion. There is a Bloody Big Battles mod for WW-1 and WW-2 'in progress' and Frank Chadwick (Command Decision, Volley and Bayonet) is working on a game at the same scale.

There are a couple more in early playtest that I know of too.

Division commander is definitely sounding like what i am most after – battalion being 1 stand is something i like , unfortunately the australian dollar being what it is, i can only really pick one or two rules to buy so trying to make the right decision

If Division Commander is the one I'm thinking of, it is basically KISS Rommel with a load of chrome bolted on.

KISS Rommel is also one base = 1 battalion, and is free.

There is a Pz8 WW2 operational set with battalion bases which is also free, and is a decent starting point (as ever with Pz8, move distances are short).

I would strongly urge you to look at Not Quite Mechanised, it is a free download off the website.

Personally I wouldn't classify anything where you are manouvering multiple divisions as Grand Tactical, but Operational, but it is only a label. Once you've got a bunch of divisions based up, there are many rules it use, and at that level it is easy to write your own as things are quite abstract.

I was looking at the KISS Rommel stuff online – but it seems like it is missing content

in particular the axis commander cards for the 2006 v915 version are missing
and for the 2003 v1 version, it seems perhaps too strategic level – german tanks are just tanks, there no distinctions for different types at all

Yes ok perhaps grand tactical is not the best term either – it seems i cant win as folks dont like the term operational, either.

basically, i just like the rules where a base is a platoon or higher, something that would suit making units of vehichles with like 3 vehicles to a base (following my 2/3mm project)

regarding Not Quite Mechanised, looking there site its not clear to me what is going on there – where exactly can i download rules there?

Try this URL
PDF link

Here is a list of squad scale rules, where you typically command 1-2 companies.
Name Ground Time Published
Scale Scale 1st Edition
Angriff 1:1800 30-60s 1968
Fast Rules 1970
Tractics 1971
War Game Rules 1925-1950 1:1000 100sec 1973
Panzer War 1975
Cambrai to Sinai 1:1000 30sec 1978
Combat Commander 1:1968 1978
War Game Rules 1950-1985 1:2000 5 min 1979
Kampfgruppen 1979
Challenger 1:1986 5 min 1983
Combined Arms 1:2000 10 min 1983
Firefly 1:2000 10 min 1987
Battlegroup 1:2000 5 min 1997
Flames of war ? ? 2002
Blitzkrieg Commander 1:1000 30 min 2003
Micro Squad the Game 1:900 1 min 2010

Here is a list of platoon scale rules, where you command a Brigade;
Name Ground Time Published
Scale Scale 1st Edition
Wargamers Digest WW2 1:10000* 60 min 1973-75
Corps Commander 1:10000+ 60 min 1986
Command Decision 1:3600 15 min 1986
Lightning War 1:4570 60 min 1989
Rapid Fire 1:4000 15 min 1994
Spearhead 1:4000 30 min 1995
Tactical Command 1:4570 30 min 1999
Micro-Armor the Game 1:3600 3 min 2001
Kampfgruppen Commander 1:3600 60 min 2001
Stonk 1:4000 7.5 min 2006
A Fistfull of TOW 1:4000 12 min 2011
Combat HQ 1:4000 30 min 2016

Thanks,

is Tactical Command the modern armor game? i have a box of tactical command, whihc was a simple miniatures game of some m1 abrams vs some t-72s and t-80s
- very simple 1:1 rules, could play it with my daughter who is 6

thanks for teh NQM link – is a game that requires an umpire?

Yes – from memory it does require an umpire. I am uncertain if you can use them without an umpire.

Tactical Command is a free set of rules by Michael J Licari. You could search for them on the internet.

Field Of Battle WW2 (from Piquet stable) has each stand equating to a Company so around the grand tactical realm.

The older Piquet: Point Of Attack has 3 included levels of representation Squad/Platoon/Battalion so again in the ball park.

Blitzkrieg Commander could be classed as at similar scale (1 stand equals a Platoon) to Spearhead or Test Of Battle (newest iteration of Cmd Decision)

Ah yes, silly me – i did mean tto then look up tactical command but got distracted with studies. Actually for a while i had thought all the links on the freewargamesrules wiki were dead as many just did not link to a file .. but then i realised recently i need to create an account on the site and so now i can download the files!

Wow tactical command, is also then a set that is what i am after and it even has some supply rules.

There are so many Piquet titles i gave up a while back trying to work out what to look at – i had not heard of Piquet Point of Attack 3 before.

If Field of Battle WW2 is a stand alone piquet title i will check it out (also trying learn more about Grand Piquet for napoleonics and whether it is any good)

Piquet: Point Of Attack and Field of Battle WW2 are both standalone sets ie no other supplements needed to play.

Not used Grand Piquet so cant comment, especially on a WW2 board:-)

ok cool – well it seems they can be bought as pdfs from the piquet site which is good

though in the meanwhile, feeling a bit irritated by Fire Brigade that i bought on WGV not letting me even print them , i decided to ignore them and hope the owner of Jolly Roger Games, Jim Dietz might consider allowing one to prin them in future

- but i just got Combat HQ and these look wonderful, absolutely perfect and the advanced rules have optional supply rules too. So i think i am set for now – … the only thing that Combat HQ lacks are army lists for North Africa 41-43 period. (there is always something missing with every rule sets)

Combat HQ are decent set with very fun dice 'orders' system.
Personally bit less impressed with some of the stats but nothing game breaking :-)

I just got Combat HQ and these look wonderful, absolutely perfect and the advanced rules have optional supply rules too. So i think i am set for now – … the only thing that Combat HQ lacks are army lists for North Africa 41-43 period. (there is always something missing with every rule set.)

Combat HQ is the same scale (one stand or vehicle = one platoon) as several rules sets that have been mentioned in this thread. If you're looking for North Africa 1941-1943 scenarios, you can get a lot from Command Decision 4 – Test of Battle.

There's a Command Decision-related book on North Africa, covering the Italian invasion of Egypt through Operation Crusader and the Axis riposte near Agedabia. It's called Benghazi Handicap and has army lists, scenarios, lots of history, and terrain suggestions (and rules about desert warfare -- wadis, mirages, etc. -- that you can adapt to other similar rules sets such as Combat HQ, Spearhead and Blitzkrieg Commander). For that matter, Spearhead has a North Africa book of scenarios, too, called Blaze Across the Sands.

okay cool – well i must confess, the Noble knight sale is on now and i couldnt but help order Spearhead and Clash of Armor and the Clash of Armor addon 'Rommels Battles'

i will look for Blaze Across teh Sands now though also