"Rulesets That Deserve a New Edition?" Topic

Which rulesets would you like to see in a new edition?

If I were to say "Chain of Command", would that qualify as free advertising?

Of course not.

To the Strongest as the updates have now reached version 12!

Spearhead. Modern Spearhead and Crossfire

What does a new edition mean? A new set of rules under the same name. We produced an Issue 2 for Maneouvre Group but that is just an improved set of words and fine tuning after 15 years. Would that be in your parlance a new edition or does a new edition mean basic changes to the mechanisms making it really a new set of rules?

Limeys and Slimeys needs to be updated, fully illustrated and in a hardbound book format.

They Died for Glory

Although updates, like ones for your phone, don't always turn out to be an improvement.

Bolt Action

Warhammer Fantasy (ha ha)

More than new edition, promoted printings.

Many good rule sets are 'unknown' because they came out 25+ years ago and New players don't know they exist.

Warmaster and Warmaster Ancients
Man o' War
G.O.B.S.! (Because it's about dang time I did that.)

I'll second Warmaster!

Also, not exactly a new edition, but a "Hail Caesar Fantasy". Edition

Donnybrook — aka Donnybrook Dark with fantasy elements added has been a long time not getting to print.

Imperial Skies, not the rules per se but long overdue for an update of cards for all the new ships Brigade Models has been releasing since the first print run long ago. As noted above, a new printing with publicity would help boos the game too.

De Bellis Antiquitatis (DBA) 3.0.

Not to re-think or change or evolve the rules; just a new printing to incorporate acknowledged errata to the army lists, and perhaps an appendix to incorporate the accumulated frequently asked questions.

Konflikt'47 and, to a lesser extent, Bolt Action (and make them compatible); To the Strongest; love to see a new edition of Warhammer Ancients; and Strandhogg -- a fun little Dark Age/Viking game long out of print…

I always liked Stars n Bars.

"Yellow Ribbon" Easily the most authentic rules set for the Plains Indian Wars.

If I could afford the rights, I'd give it a update to a game mechanic (not rules per se) with graphic supplement, and maps, and period illustrations that would make it "eye candy" to match its "brain candy."

I've been planning this for some years and would jump at the chance.

TVAG

The Ringbearer (1975) by Dan Bress, Ed Konstant, Little Solder Games. It's been a long time, but I seem to remember that one side could not win.

While I still play the latest edition of Starguard every now and then, I would like to see a reprint of 2nd or 3rd edition, since my copies are beyond brittle.

An update for Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader 1987, bringing in all the new races that have shown up since then. It might be nice for a vehicle rules revision, but I am not sure that any vehicle revisions would make me happy. I don't want it to play faster; just without the turning issues. I doubt that I would be pleased with any updates; too grumpy.

Striker (Traveller) 1981. It would be nice if there were some updates to orders play and maybe a streamline vehicle creation method. I play small battles in Traveller where individuals matter. I have never enjoyed larger size battles in that genre.

Johnny Reb would be nice. And don't say Across a Deadly Field was an update. It was a different game.

Full Thrust. So good and so abandoned on any meaningful level.
(Yes, you can still get it online in the original form, but I mean as an ongoing modern set of rules.)

Another vote for DBA 3.0 – but hopefully in a neater format, its hard to read!

Seastrike by Robin Wyatt is another classic game from the past just begging for a re-release.

Well, somebody's got to say it. How about TSATF?

Old Contemptible, I'm the co-author of They Died For Glory. What kind of update would you like to see? You can contact me directly at burker1 (at) aol (dot) com.

Our gaming group used to play Ringbearer all the time, tho to be honest, with a thick coating of house rules.

Sauron usually won, tho in one memorable game, Gollum did.

I'm still waiting on Guns of Liberty 3. Should be out any decade now.

@HMS Exeter – Honestly it has been so long since I played Ringbearer. I lost the rules in a move from California in the late 70's. I fondly remember playing. It was one of my first miniature wargame rulesets that I bought.

How about GQ1 and GQ2, in reorganised and re-formatted modern prints? (Navwar did very helpfully reissue them in recent years, but I think I saw that one of them is now sold out.)

Also I'd vote for Seastrike and Yellow Ribbon. And Crossfire, if it isn't generally available.

"I see people say Warmaster but isn't Black Powder the latest incarnation? "

Warmaster and Hail Caesar/Black Powder are both by Rick Priestley, but there are slight differences in the command system, shooting (drive backs), etc. A new version of Warmaster Ancients would be nice as a lot of gamers are looking to buy a copy and its difficult to find.

I'm going to go back to my old dream. Take the best one- and two-page rules out of a lifetime of wargame magazines. Give them a quick check for typos and omissions, put them in a clear legible font, spiral bound and printed so both sides of two-page rules may be seen at once. Print four volumes--individual casting removal, stand removal, roster and skirmish/RPG.

Also available as a Word document.

What a great idea. Although I now immediately realise that most of my favourite mag-based rules had several pages, e.g. and totally off the top of my head Colin Standish's naval DBN, David Manley's RJW series (naval again), Hunt for the Emden/The Germans Who Never Lost (er … naval – perhaps a separate volume is required), Loose Files and American Scramble, Wheel to Wheel divisional WW1 …

Yes: another vote for a re-write / re-presentation of Johnny Reb III.

Chainmail, with its Fantasy Supplement.

The Sword and the Flame -- a true classic but badly, badly in need of a reorganization, a re-edit, clarifications, and incorporation of the official errata from the 20th anniversary edition.

It might not be a bad idea to revisit and reconsider some of the parts of it that have not aged well or always put off a lot of people -- we always played with some house rules to address things like that "magic bullet" that always struck the highest ranking Leader when an Ace came up. Wounded Natives that were more dangerous on the ground wounded than when fully functional. All or nothing negative modifiers for Imperials for losing even just one wounded (after losing that first one, all the others were immediately abandoned because it no longer mattered). Things like that.

Thank you, colkitto. You're right: I should have thought of a naval volume. For that matter, a campaign volume would be in order. Best you can do with a 3 or 5-page set is to pair it with a one-page set. I'd just like the layout so that you can see the whole two-page set at one time. So often this is not the case.

TSATF. Agreed, but I think we killed that one ourselves. Anyone printing a new edition has to cope with the number of us who have already paid for it, that money being long since gone. I think if I were Sergeants Three, I'd contact the people they already owe a new edition, and ask them to settle for a discount just to make the thing possible.

Robert Burke,

Actually, the rules are just fine the way they are. I did not mean it as a criticism. The rules could use better and more scenarios. Command rules could added to the regular rules. We use the optional command rules. A separate scenario book would be nice.

The old Rally Round The Flag, (updating the rules, and especially clarifying and making playable the one part of the rules that is a mess, and that is the charge/countercharge section)…

A good set of Pirate rules…(covers both land and ship battles)….

Modern Spearhead….

Close and Destroy….

Empire. Bowden is working on revising these rules, yet little information or progress has been revealed.

TS&TF wouldn't even be that expensive -- it was always a very affordable set of rules. It's not like Hail Caesar or Black Powder, with those pricey 2nd Editions and various add-on supplements. I think anyone owning TS&TF would be happy to buy a reissued, revised edition AND it would attract new buyers who won't seek out the old, secondhand copies. (I don't even know the current status, is it still in print? What about its spinoffs?

Hell, I'd even volunteer to do the edit myself for nothing up front, if it would help get this done. I could do it. I used to be a staff game designer for TSR Hobbies, Metagaming, Coleco, and have kept my hand in.

Pirates (3rd Ed.) by Flagship Games -- is that still available?

(Murphy, you might like that one.)

Knights and Magic

Old Contemptible, thank you for clarifying. Have you jointed the They Died For Glory group on io.groups? If you do, you can download my Errata for TDFG. The Errata also contains some command rules. Or you can email me directly and I'll send you a copy.

Piper, you missed the point, which is that Sergeants3, which has the rights, already took money for the new edition, which they never delivered. Presumably the money kept Lori Brom afloat for a while. So anyone looking at printing a new edition has to factor in the number of copies they already owe people. I'd love to know how long that list is, because I don't think we're going to see a new edition until they can persuade the people who've already paid for it to waive their claims and agree to pay again.

And I just checked the Sergeants3 website. You will be pleased to know that the 40th Anniversary Edition of TSATF has been rescheduled and will be released in 2020. Mark your calendars accordingly.

At the moment, I think they're working on re hashing Warhammer. They were never particularly good rules imo so I'd prefer they re invented with figure compatibility than re hashed.
Not sure that technically counts.

Tactica and Medieval Tactica

Hi, Robert P -- thanks for clarifying all that about TS&TF. I was completely unaware of those goings-on. Messy complications to be sure. But wha--? 2020? Is this sarcasm, a typo, or…?

EDIT: Oh, okay. I went looking for that website and see what you mean. These fellows do not have their act together, evidently. if they truly own the rights to these rules, TS&TF followers are SOL, along with those newcomers who would like to play those rules.

Still doesn't mean that I don't feel they deserve a new edition. However it needs to happen. Isn't that what these Kickstarter things and GoFundMe's are supposed to be about?

Oh, I agree, Piper. I'd be happy to pay again for one. But here's the initial discussion:
TMP link

Sergeants3 is/was Larry Brom and family, so it certainly owns the rights until it sells them. There have been multiple follow-up discussions since 2019. As long as Lori was alive and active, she promised eventual delivery and offered refunds. I think her sister is currently in charge, and has not commented. By my count, TMP members who posted a reply are owed $8 USD-900 in refunds or rules, apart from however many bought without adding a comment or who aren't part of TMP. It's enough to be discouraging for a small company which may have lost both the members who really understood the rules.

As for kickstarter and gofundme, kickstarter wouldn't have gotten Lori the money she needed when she needed it. I suspect Lori sold rules in advance of publication instead of setting up a gofundme page for the sake of her own dignity, making it a commercial transaction instead of charity.

I don't think it matters now. What we need to do is find some way to encourage Sergeants3 to go on to a new edition, and make it financially attractive to them. I'm open to suggestions.

Oh. And I bet you can still buy the previous edition from them. That doesn't require any up-front effort or expenditure.

A new Fire & Fury Eastern Battles Scenario book.
FYI, I was pleasantly surprised that the Michigan Toy Soldier Company still sells the for $18.00 USD. I just got this one!

Also, and advanced version of Gettysburg Soldiers. A nice into game that newcomers can enjoy, but would like to see a more rounded out version for experienced ACW gamers.

Kim

I would second Spearhead. Definitely NOT Tactica. There are a ton of better rulesets for ancients out already.

Fields of Honor by Shane Lacy Hensley (1994, Pinnacle Entertainment).
— Post-Napoleonic 19th Century, scaling from section to brigade as basic maneuver unit, essentially simple while providing a lot of ‘chrome', clearly presented and engagingly written. A spin-off for the American War of Independence was published with components to start playing it without needing miniatures.

Vive L'Empereur by Ned Zuparko (1981, Chaosium).
— Several years before Napoleon's Battles, this was a pioneering treatment of Napoleonic battles at a high level command; similar ground and figure scale factors to NB, and also using the abstraction of representing formations, but with regiments rather than brigades as the basic unit.

— The approach is perhaps in some ways more "old school" than NB, but overall I think I like its nuances better. Zuparko's writing is, and the designer's notes included are, very well done.

Game algorithms per se are not subject to copyright, so "retro-clones" are possible, but these strike me as cases in which the author's style in presentation is part of the value.

Bushido RPG.

Character creation and preparation was highly math intensive with a poorly laid out rulebook. Once you got through that, gameplay was pretty smooth and fun.