"Wagner Group armed rebellion against Putin" Topic

According to a TV news report that I just saw minutes ago the leader of the Wagner Group has call for an armed rebellion against Putin. Whether this is true or not or misinterpretation by the news casters will be determined in a few hours.

Some sort of bug caused three sets of three duplicate posts. To admins please delete the excess posts

Didn't see that one coming to be honest… very Interesting development. I guess the russian response will be "no worries, everything is under control". Lies as usual. But make no mistake Prigoszhin (Spelling?) is warhawk not a peace dove. Russian troops are allowed to continue the war in the parts of Russia that Wagner has occupied.

But so far the (second) Russian invasion of Russia is going better than the russian invasion of Ukraine👍. First Russian invasion was the "Free Russian Legion" outside Belgorod, where they still hold some territory.

Could it be a ruse to draw out Ukrainian troops to attack a perceived weak spot in Russian defense position's?

Bearing in mind tactical nukes in Belarus. a radioactive waste land would make a great barrier like I don't know a flooded area from a blown up dam.

williamb, check out this thread:

TMP link

Military HQ surrounded by tanks in Rostov

But whose tanks?

Ukrainian Pravda: link

tass.com/russia/1637475

Prigozhin charged with armed mutiny, to face up to 20 years in prison

Really, just 20 years? Not much worse than discrediting the army or calling it a war…

Prigozhin takes Rostov, marching on Moscow.

Moscow Times: link

He is a bit of a Benito look-a-like, isn't he?
Marching on Moscow, the New Rome of Russkiy mir.

And as far as I know, we didn't even buy him!
:)

Where is that ass maggot Kadyrew, when you need him?

Popcorn and beer anyone?

And where did I put my old Junta board game?

Which rules work best for modern civil wars, coups d'ιtat's etc?

Reuters reports Pregozhin has taken Voronezh, about 250 miles from Moscow.

Ukrainian Pravda: link

Another video shows Rusguard (national guard) troops moving to Rostov, but traveling in military buses.

Where is that ass maggot Kadyrew, when you need him?

He was a little slow, but has come out supporting Putin.

Ukrainian Pravda: link

Apparently, Mr.Putin is working on his own version of the Stab-in-the-back myth.

Do they have even one original idea or do they dig everything out of the garbage heaps of history?

Prigozhin claims to have shot down 4 helicopters and one An-24 transport plane.

It's just business, nothing personal.
:)

Did Prigozhin lie about ammo shortages in order to build up a stockpile?

Ukrainian Pravda: link

I wonder what China make of all this?

Exactly 17 months today ago barricades and defences were being built in and around Kyiv in Putin's 3 day war. Today sees barricades and defences being built in and around Moscow. Zelensky said he needed ammo not a ride. Putin however seems to have sought a ride as his Presidential plane has left Moscow.

Okay, as a gesture of reconciliation to reintegrate the great Russian nation into the ranks of respectable businessmen and the Европейский мир:

"We, zhe Germans, commit ourselves indefinitely to buying as much cheap Russian gas as possible so that Russia can finance the reconstruction and reparation of Ukraine and the hole east of it.
First of all, you should put your district heating pipes back in concrete for safety and equip the hinterland with modern sanitary facilities.
You are not Alabama, after all!
Get a grip, man!

We even manage the transfer of our money to Ukraine, so it doesn't get lost in that confusing eastern turmoil, be it yours or theirs.
Do we have a deal, President (or whatever) Prigozhin?"

Regarding illegal refugees from the Russian Civil War, we can certainly rely on the Poles and Finns to save our asses from that pesky plague.
On the Ukrainians anyway.

Germany?
One kick and the whole corrupt empire…..
Third time lucky.

This is all so wild!------"The Musicians vs. Red Orchestra" (well, I like it).

Gonna mine this for new scenarios……if I can put down my popcorn.

So, who makes the best Kremlin terrain?
Preferably 3D printable?

Arjuna – :))) (good time to ask)

Hey, interesting on how coups often resemble those little Russian egg dolls – they start off big, but eventually get peeled away to the littlest joker inside….. then "pop" goes the weasel.

Place your bets, place your bets.

good time to ask!

You should always try to make the best of it and look on the bright side of life…
After all, it is a serious matter.

Absolutely! (Popcorn and beer anyone?)

I just watched Putin's most recent speech, and he evokes the battle for Bakhmut in it, and to protect the legacy gained by the victorious struggle for it. He doesn't realize Progozhin is the 'hero' of Bakhmut, and by extension Wagnerites, not Putin, his generals, or the army.

In a strange way, Progozhin has been speaking truth to power, yes, for his own personal gain. Then again, who has more credibility in the eyes of the 'man on the street'?

I'm about to place my bet, but first gotta head out to get more popcorn, oh, and that beer too Arjuna. :)

Wow !!! Russkie revolution 2.0!!! "Remember 1917 Comrade!"

Could end the war in Ukraine with the Russians withdrawing to fight on their own turf ?

Could have the US and/or NATO engineered this mutiny ?

Possibly the end of Putin ? Will he be arrested and sent to the Hague for War Crimes ?

The Ukraine Forces definitely should take advantage of this. Giving amnesty to surrendering Russia troops. Reclaim any territory the Russians withdraw from, etc.

Will the Mercs march on Moscow ?

The possibilities are many …

beer too Arjuna

Cheers.
Next is on me.

Who would have thought, the Wagnerian Dare Devils are not only the most successful Russian, no they are also the most successful Ukrainian Battle Group of the current offensive!
Of course, Rostov and Voronezh were easy, they just had to face Russians, mainly conscripts.

So, let's see what the Wagnerians at the strategic important points of the Ukrainian front will do.
There is some potential.

Oh, and just in case you don't remember the rules from back then, like me (it has been a long time):
Junta Rules

Any good house rules?

Amazing Russian offensive! Liberating town after town, in Russia😂. They learned the lessons from the failed thunder run against Kiev… Russian army, the much feared "red horde" failed completely in the initial invasion of Ukraine. Then they botched the war. Now they can't even defend mother Russia. Holy smoke they are useless. Only capitalistic mercenaries succeed.

"Mercs March On Moscow" – sounds like an instant classic!

(along with Junta, already the game classic) ;)

Arjuna and Legion, so much potential. Do you surmise Ukrainian contacts are already reaching out (stranger bedfellows have been had before)?

Soledad, the only thing a people hate most of all, is to appear humiliated before the world (oh, and endless rows of body bags).

Place your best, place your bets……

Actually, I'm quite sure they talked.
Not about this situation explicitly.

But I'm sure Prigozhin, who is clearly a bastard, but an intelligent bastard and probably even a Russian patriot, despite being a mercenary has come to the conclusion Russia can't win this war and he will be be worn down if he does not go all-in.
And I don't think he is our bastard, for that matter.
There is still the possibility that should he win the internal conflict, he escalates the external one.
Personally, I am neither convinced of the one nor the other.

The fights and the talks with the Ukrainians will have strengthened him in this.
He has not recognized them as equal opponents and paid his respect in recent weeks for nothing.

He is risking everything.
You don't do that for money as I jokingly implied a month ago in another thread on TMP.
You do that when you're fed up with those stupid s higher up in Moscow and Petersburg and see a chance to save the future of your country.
And maybe even your life.

Waiting for a certain segment of TMP to let us know how all of this is the fault of the United States government. Perhaps US military aid should not have been provided so that Putin's regime didn't have to rely upon Wagner so that Wagner wouldn't grow in power and overthrow Putin and cause destabilization in region.

Lol

fault of the United States governmen

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that the mistake was made in the early 1990s when Russia was not helped with a Marshall Plan-like program.
And the Russians were so incredibly open-minded about the West back then!
What an opportunity was lost there.
By us and by the Russians.
Which was probably inevitable, considering what would have had to be put into it at the time, without ever knowing where it would all go.
You think Ukraine is corrupt?
You don't know Russia back then.
Well, we will pay now and maybe more, and most of all the Ukrainians.

Astute Arjuna!

Agreed Prince, there's a certain comfort in mental constructs where everything happens because of a greater conspiracy….it's the US, a world cabal…."The Devil" (fill in the blank).

Thing is, it's often just human-caused chaos – that to some, is the most frightening concept of all.

"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic. The truth is that it is not The Iluminati, or The Jewish Banking Conspiracy, or the Gray Alien Theory.

The truth is far more frightening – Nobody is in control."
Alan Moore (and somebody before him, whose name I can't remember)

I would enjoy that beer with you too.

Does this remind anyone else of Xenophon and the 10000? Maybe someone already mentioned that.

@FlyXWire
Thank you, this is really nice.
I'm always amazed at how kindly people on TMP respond to my thoughts, even if they have to be people who think I'm completely nuts and opposite to their point of view.
I must be doing something right.
Of course, most are just polite enough not to respond.

Just saw this:

#BREAKING: Belarusian president held talks with Prigozhin today. Lukashenko says that Prigozhin has agreed to "stop the movement of armed persons on the territory of Russia and to take further steps to deescalate"

May you live in interesting times.

Call me a pessimist, but there are so many ways this can go sideways.

If Putang is a real man he should…

Admit they were wrong
Return all captured territories
Pay for Ukraine's reconstruction
Return all Ukrainians from Russia
Submit to all war crimes
Return nukes to Ukraine to stop further aggression

But as we know Putang only cares about himself and his legacy.

As I posted on another thread here … I go to lunch and when I got back. The Mercs are being ordered to go back to their barracks. Their Cdr skips the country and Putin is still alive !!!! 😮 What kind of world has it become when you can't trust a former KGB now dictator war criminal and a ruthless bottom line Merc Cdr ? I mean what kind of world do we live in today ? Really !!

I was hoping to see Putin roped up in Moscow Central as well. But unfortunately we don't always get what we want.

Damon.

I wonder what the Vegas betting line is on Progozin's (sp?) remaining longevity. Wagner is still dangerous, but w/o their capo they're likely directionless.

On the other hand, Kadyrov now knows that Putin has no real assets between Grozny and Moscow. He's just enough of a whackjob to try it.

Sigh…
You go to bed in the evening with a great idea for a city fight scenario in the Kremlin and in the morning it was just a weird dream.
This is absolutely embarrassing.
I'm so disappointed, I was hoping to persuade a few mates to play a round of Junta with this nonsense.
And now?
An aborted operetta revolt!

They clearly stole the insurrection!

To repeat again what was said above twice already:
The truth is far more frightening – Nobody is in control.

The whole episode is like some weird fever dream! I have to say Prigozhin bottling it is consistent with historic president – people suggesting the lack of support. Though as in all cases support only tends to be forthcoming once the deed is pretty much done. Essentially ending up in 'exile' courtesy of Lukashenko brokering some kind of a deal is more than a little weird. There were also some other oddities in all this. I'm sure a lot of us were expecting a far ruthless response from the Russian security forces for a start….

Not a lot the Ukrainian's could do with 24 hours of chaos. But a few helicopters being downed and a whole lot of disruption are better than nothing. May be they also dodged a bullet since Prigozhin's manifesto, such as it was, was prosecuting the war against Ukraine 'better'.

Arjuna, that makes two embarassed enthusiasts – and hope you didn't get that 3D terrain project up and running – quite yet? ;)

Meanwhile, another classis title in the works – "They Stole the Insurrection"

:)))

This looked usable at first glance:
3d Model of the Gremlin Cave – On cgtrader.com

Heavily discounted, a bargain.
Understandable, who would want that?

But unfortunately not ready for print and probably a lot of work to change that.
So, I'll pass.

Maybe there is a 3D paper puzzle of that House of Cards out there on Aliexpress.

WOW!

(for the price they should throw in a kamikaze drone too)

So the "Russian Rebellion"/"March on Moscow" seems to have a been a failure. However, it does makes Putin look weak. As he has shown thru out this conflict. He is meeting with China, and Iran to let them know he is still in control(?).

The Russian people don't like Putin's war. However, he said he will continue with his war in Ukraine. But this all plays into Ukraine's favor as their measured determined offensive continues. No "Blitzkrieg" just yet.

AFAIK the Cdr of the Wagner Group is in "exile" in Belarus, a puppet of Putin. The Wagner Mercs are to be put in the Russian Army(?). The Russian military's moral seems to be low (?). Still a lot of questions …

As a side bar Prigozhin was a caterer, sold hot dogs, etc. … But he changed jobs and became a Cdr of Mercs ? Seems it may not have work out for him. He may have an accident while in exile ?

After declaring "this was the greatest threat to our democracy since WW2", Putin appears to have taken up the offer of Merrick Garland to provide DOJ and FBI assets to spearhead investigation and prosecution of the insurrectionists. In addition, they hope to charge all civilians who turned out to watch or "otherwise encourage" Wagner assets as they drive through their town.

Do they have tall buildings with windows in Belarus? They are probably as dangerous as in Russia.