"Wagner Attacked by Russian Army" Topic

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It appears Wagner has been ordered to submit and not the usual fratricide and incompetence of the Russian army.

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Missile strikes on Wagner rear areas. "Huge" numbers dead.

Prigozhin\s long rant about how the reasons for the war are all fake and it is the fault of Shoigu and the oligarchs.
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Possibly Prigozhin saying he is going to arrest / punish Shoigu to bring justice back to the army, and then return to the front line.
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A good turn of events for the Ukraine … if true …

Russian security service starts mutiny probe after statements by Prigozhin
tass.com/russia/1637425

also

Putin has been briefed on situation with Prigozhin, measures are being taken – Peskov

Will just have to wait to see if anything is happening..

Maybe Cuprum will know more..

Prigozhin then claimed that Shoigu had personally arrived in Rostov to carry out an operation to wipe out the Wagnerites: "He used artillery and helicopters after dark to take us out."

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I predicted this happening in earlier TMP threads… ;-)

Russians killing Russians. Is there a downside?

This should be interesting. Based on what Prigozhin has said, it almost sounds like he wants to march on Moscow.

Damon.

Is this when Putin breaks out the tac-nukes?

If ever there's a time for Putin to unleash some, now is it. I wonder what the failure rate would be?

NATO might condemn it but wouldn't take any action. Russians nuking Russians and all that.

Based on what Prigozhin has said, it almost sounds like he wants to march on Moscow.

According to some of the Russian milbloggers, Wagner is marching already and has confronted their first roadblock. (Talked their way past 2 tanks.) Wagner is believed to be located in Rostov, quite a way to Moscow but there is a good highway. In Moscow, the Rosguard have taken control of public buildings and preparing for defense.

It's not clear whose side Putin is on.

According to Denys Davidov, the videos showing the missile attack on Wagner rear camps look fake.

As sensational as this development is, I doubt this will end well for Prigozhin. It will be interesting to see how the Russians make this Ukraine's/NATO's fault.

Yes according to current information, they were "allowed" to enter Rostov. Possibly by those sympathetic. Could be awhile before we really know anything.

There's a video of a column of mixed Wagner vehicles (tanks, APCs and civilian cars) going around a roadblock (supposedly in Rostov) while being watched by riot police. They had a red Z symbol instead of the usual white Z.

Interesting, but unless Wagner group has more than themselves, I can't see them doing anything but fail. It will be interesting to watch.

BBC reports Wagner has shot down a Russian helicopter.

Interesting, but unless Wagner group has more than themselves, I can't see them doing anything but fail.

25,000 of the best soldiers in Russia, highly motivated, versus police and militia? Look at what 100 Russians rebels did in Belgorod. From the videos, Moscow is defended only by policemen and a few armed trucks.

But does Wagner Group have Air support? I have to believe the Russians have more in reserve, especially air. Can they replace munitions? What about wounded? Leave them behind, carry them with them? 25,000 is still only 25,000. Again, I just can't believe by themselves they win. With support, things could be different. But OMO.

I should add again, Rostov looked like a cake walk. So maybe they have support. Good luck to them.

Should not 25,000 missing troops leave a hole to exploit for the Ukrainians?

Very interesting events.
I can hardly add anything to the current information. I can only express my thoughts on this matter.
For starters – let's look at the facts. Various statements from all sides are just words. And it is still difficult to judge who and what goals are pursuing when they are spoken.
- The video from the Wagner camp hit by an air strike gives the impression of a bad production … We all already know well what the consequences of an air strike look like – there is nothing like it. There is no demonstration of the dead and wounded, there are no statements by ordinary contractors on the net (and this is strange) … My conclusion is that this is a staging.
- Video of several tanks and armored vehicles walking along the highway and arriving freely in Rostov with a small detachment of infantry, and surrounding local administrative buildings … Too few for a real campaign against Moscow … PMC "Wagner" now has about 25 thousand people, armored vehicles and artillery – where are they? Let's not forget that this is a frontline zone, there are definitely Russian troops here, and if the Russian Defense Ministry decided on a conflict with Wagner, then they should have been ready to resolve the situation by force and disarm the mercenaries. I do not observe this. My conclusion is that it is very much like a stage play.
- The taking of important objects in Moscow under the control of the Russian Guard is quite natural in any case. Even proceeding from the fact that unrest is possible under the impression of such news. But there is no creation of signs of the organization of defense in case of urban battles. My conclusion is, at least it looks strange.
- Reports of battles and a downed helicopter are just words. There is no significant evidence of real collisions.

My versions:
- this is a provocation to stimulate the Ukrainians to step up the offensive, as an opportunity to "burn" the remaining Ukrainian reserves. The duration of the public conflict between Wagner and the Russian Defense Ministry speaks against this version.
- is the initiation of profound personnel and organizational changes in the Russian Defense Ministry. My main version. Putin's silence, the inaction of the army, and the remaining impression of a "theatrical production" speak in its favor. Then soon we will see the settlement of the conflict personally by Putin and large-scale changes in the leadership of the Russian Ministry of Defense.
Usually coups begin with an attempt to arrest or kill the leaders of the opposite side of the conflict – there are not even attempts of this kind here …

35thOVI, all units of Wagner were withdrawn from the front for rest after the capture of Bakhmut and were to return to the front on August 5th

It's interesting that Prigozhin claimed the helicopter attacked a "civilian convoy" – is Wagner traveling in civilian vehicles?

But does Wagner Group have Air support?

Remember that Prigozhin even flew his own combat sortie once, he made a video.

Interesting photo from Rostov. In the foreground is an armored car of the Wagner group, and in the background are armored vehicles of the military police of the Russian Ministry of Defense. Does this look like an armed confrontation?

One more photo. We see that the military police are watching the order in the center of the "mutiny")))

Well, or we can assume that the military police went over to the side of the rebels.

Editor in Chief Bill, civilian vehicles are now widely used even in army units, which are purchased with the money of volunteer organizations or simply transferred by the owners to the needs of the army.
Even in those photos that I cited, it is clear that the Wagnerites use "civilian" cars. However, usually these machines are marked with the appropriate identification marks.

The Wagner Group had its own aviation, which was transferred to them from the Ministry of Defense. But it was a temporary subordination.

Does this look like an armed confrontation?

No, but it also could mean the military police are at least allowing the Wagner group to do what it wants.

Bottom line, like so much out of the Russia's invasion, we'll have to wait and see. The first people you hear from are those with an axe to grind. Get out there first with your view, and forget the truth later.

There's plenty of video floating around showing Wagnerites pointing weapons at official buildings in Rostov. No fighting took place.
Prigozhin has been filmed inside the Southern Military HQ chatting with senior Russian officers. No doubt for the PR. By saying he only wants to target the hierarchy and not normal soldiers, he may be trying gather more sympathy and support.
He claims to have destroyed at least one helicopter and it looks like his column has encountered resistance on the main highway.

There was a video of Prigozhin's meeting with Deputy Minister of Defense Evkurov and deputy head of the General Staff Alekseev.
Prigozhin reproaches his command of incompetence, requires a meeting with Shoigu. It says that the Wagner PMC controls military facilities in Rostov, including the headquarters of the Southeast Military District and the military airfield. At the same time, the work of the headquarters is not caused by any obstacles – the work is in normal mode.
He mentions some kind of incident with the attack by Russian aviation on a civilian bus (it is not yet clear where and when).
The generals were without weapons, Prigozhin was armed and accompanied by security.

There is information in social networks from local residents that the PMC shot down a Mi-8 helicopter. The pilots are alive. The locals did not observe any air attack. So far these are only rumors …

Putin's statement on this situation is announced.

One thing can be said for sure – this is not a rebellion against Putin.

Tankers of the "rebels" put covers on the guns of their tanks …

Armed rebels on the streets. Skirmishes and talk about shot down helicopters. But no! Everything is all right. Will Putin use nukes 😉. He is always harping that he he Will use nukes if "mother Russia " is threatend…

General Suroviking is heard asking Wagnerites to "please obey orders"… to "please follow the lawful president of Russia who have been chosen by the people".

An armed convoy heading towards Moscow along a highway.

I wonder how NATO staged all this😂.

Is it a special military operation going on in Russia? Possibly to nazify the country? After all, Wagner have been accused of being nazis? According to twitter they are halv way to Moscow? Is Russia going to fracture into civil war?

I hope Ukraine will use this opportunity to liberate its country from this horrible occupation.

Video is rolling in with sounds of firefights in the Voronezh region and some unconfirmed reports of air strikes on the Wagner column.

If this is true it sounds like multiple factions could be in play…

1. Shoigu hand picked army units loyal to him?

2. National Guard loyal to Putin?

3. Army units undecided and sitting this one out?

I can't blame the Rostov HQ for remaining neutral or failing to act and resist Wagner. It would probably be suicide for them if Wagner arrived in force.

If Wagner is fielding one of the few effective combat units with any backbone and willingness to fight they might have a chance of conducting a successful coup. The Russian conscript hordes stuck in Ukraine won't be of much help to Shoigu or Putin.

Prigozin took also Woronez and Lipieck, mosty without violence. His units are moving on Moscow but are bombarded. Some units took his side. Movies of Federal aeroplanes downed by Wagnerites.

Prigozin was very well prepared – 1500 km in one night.
Wagneristan has gained more territory of Russia, than Russia gained territory of Ukraine from 2014.

Putin declared Prigozin a traitor, so there wont be negotiations.

twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en

Prigozin was very well prepared

At least some Russian sources have accused Wagner of hoarding supplies and equipment for the last 2 months. The same supplies and equipment they begged for.

This is all fake news, they are merely going on some well deserved R&R, there is no insurrection, none at all, the Ukraine has fallen and the nutter from Belarus has gone on holiday,

Tally Ho!

Well. Apparently I was wrong. This is truly an armed rebellion. Prigozhin publicly refused to submit to Putin.
In Voronezh, a helicopter of the Russian armed forces destroyed a fuel depot. At the same time, he was fired from MANPADS by the rebels.

TikTok Chechens already on the outskirts of Rostov.

Well if all true, then sit back and see who is supporting who.

Thanks for the information on air and location before the "rebellion".

Convenient that they were not on the front lines.

Mercenaries need payment; where does Prigozhin get his cash from to keep the contractors loyal?

Be interesting to see what is happening in the areas of Africa where Wagner is operating on behalf of Russia. I wonder if some African leaders are now thinking about the long-term ramifications of picking a side in this.

I wish I had shares in a popcorn company, this is going to be interesting.

There's a strange amount of support for Prigozhin on some forums. I would like him to fail because he wants total war/mobilisation and is seriously unhinged. This internal implosion is still a symptom of a very unhappy and disjointed command.

"Mercenaries need payment; where does Prigozhin get his cash from to keep the contractors loyal?"

If they win I bet they were promised huge bonus checks. If they lose it is a moot point.

Prigozhin is one of the oligarchs. Restaurants, food stores, gambling casinos, and meal services for school children, government workers, and the military.

Wagner Group does not sound like the type of people one wants in charge from all the stories I've been reading. But they seem to be still advancing.

@35thOVI,

I would agree, but I also recall that people had a similar view of Octavian at the end of the Roman civil war but he is now regarded by many as the greatest of Roman emperors.

As Seneca wrote of Octavian, "I would certainly not describe as mercy, what was actually the exhaustion of cruelty." Maybe there's a ray of hope in this mess.

As I said on another thread, this reminds me of Xenophon and the 10000.

Or Napoleon's return from Elba