"How might Ukraine use their new Western armour?" Topic

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Short answer – They Ukrainians fight modern mobile combined arms maneuver warfare. They don't waste assets like the Russians do. But the article is pretty good with good intel about some of the Tanks being sent to the Ukraine. And note as we see in the article that the US Strykers can fire the deadly TOW AT missile as can the US M2 Bradleys. That gives the Ukraine an edge. Not only can their MBTs kill tanks but so can some of their IFVs.

And all the Western AFVs etc. being sent will be made even "better" as the Russians don't fight modern maneuver warfare. As we saw from the beginning of the war. And now they are fighting with many Infantry units(?) in dismounted attacks, with little training and minimal armor, however well supported by FA. Not a war winning situation.

I'm not greatly impressed by the Ukrainian mobile tactics either, although they seem better at limiting losses. I read about a Ukrainian counterattack a week or two ago with APCs they got from the Netherlands. Apparently, there was no reconnaissance of the area that they were attacking and after breaking through the initial defenses, they ran into Spetsnatz troops manning the second line and lost a lot of vehicles to AT defenses. Both sides really don't seem to know what they are doing in terms of maneuver warfare.

I think the Spetnatz took advantage of the lack of recon. And this is the first time that tactic has been used AFAIK. I don't think the Ukraine will make that mistake again. Plus the Russians don't have that many Spetnatz troops.

I do believe the Ukraine knows how to fight modern maneuver warfare. They have been trained by the US, UK, etc. Maybe not as well as e.g. the US used to. But they use modern tactics much better than the Russians. As I had mentioned before.

Better is enough.
Don't need to be perfect.

Perfect would take too long.

Some ex-Army YouTuber out there mentioned in his vlog that he imagines some poor Ukrainian logistician steady going mad while watching various NATO nations commit tiny numbers of armor of a dozen different varieties. Like the old Michelle Branch/Santana song, "a little bit of this, a little bit of that…".

How can you form effective units out of 3-4 tanks from here, and 30 tanks from there? You need unity in that respect for spare parts, munitions, and fuel.

Honestly, I'm not sure if the Ukrainians have enough to field effective units of western armor. They are getting less than 100 tanks of at least 3-5 different types and marks. I'm not sure if that's enough to form more than a few special companies and a battalion or so of armor (a typical western style tank battalion has around 40-60 tanks plus other assorted AFVs to support them). I can see a few elite shock units here, but not a major offensive strike force.

Of course I reserve the right to be wrong.

The number of western tanks given is not enough to form a truly heavy hitting unit. For that Ukraine would need at least 100 tanks. What they have now is enough for local break throughs but not more.

Supply and maintenance Will be a bitXH. If a tank is non operational it Will most likely be out for quite some time if it has to go back to, say Poland, for more expert repair. This makes the tank unit kind of a "one hit weapon". Its staying power/being effective in the long run might be diminished thanks to that.

Maybe the tanks can be used in one shock attack opening up a breach in Russian lines that other Ukrainian tanks (T72/64/80) can exploit?

The western tanks could then be Held back for a serious counter attack force if Russia mounts a threatening counter strike?

But I do believe alot more preofessional people than me will know how to get the most out of them…

As a combined arms maneuver force to counterattack and take back land or a mobile fire brigade to smash any breakthroughs.

"They ran into Spetsnatz troops manning the second line and lost a lot of vehicles to AT defenses."

This is very interesting since I doubt Spetsnaz are hanging out in second line defenses. I am betting they are a mobile fire brigade response to any armor breakthroughs. They are probably held in reserve, fly in helicopters to plug any breach. They cannot be everywhere… An odd use for Russian special forces…

They've burnt through a lot of their better units.
Could well be their choice was spetznaz or former artillerymen.

The thread about Ukraine losing a few Dutch supplied YPR-765 APCs to Spetsnatz

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

You need unity in that respect for spare parts, munitions, and fuel.

I'd think the Log concerns about the mix of AFVs the Ukrainians should have been addressed already. I believe there will be "push packages" of parts, etc. with those various Western AFVs/MBTs, etc. That is the way it is done or should be.

I can see a few elite shock units here, but not a major offensive strike force.

I think the mix of MBTs will not be a major problem. The Ukraine Forces generally bested the Russians in many engagements. The have a very good working knowledge, experience, etc. with modern maneuver warfare, IMO. Where the Russians are incompetent as we have seen for about a year. This has and will continue, IMO to give the Ukraine and edge.

Of course I reserve the right to be wrong.

Yes my evaluation may be the same ? We will have to wait & see.

This is very interesting since I doubt Spetsnaz are hanging out in second line defenses. I am betting they are a mobile fire brigade response to any armor breakthroughs. They are probably held in reserve, fly in helicopters to plug any breach. They cannot be everywhere… An odd use for Russian special forces…

Yes that generally makes good tactical sense. Rare from the Russians, IMO. They certainly are not SF in the NATO sense. And again how many Spetsnatz have ? Very few compared to the rest of their forces.

As far as the loss of some of the YPR-765s. When you go on the offensive/the attack you will probably take losses. Again, IMO the Ukraine will learn from this. The Russians … I'm not sure. They seem to continue to be marginal. Have not learned much in the past year. I'd expect they will try to use the Spetsnatz in similar way. Or not ? Again, I'd think this won't happen again to the Ukraine's Forces.

But there is no guarantees in war, as I have learned from history, etc. I'm sure many others of us that are students of history has read about similar.

…the Ukraine will learn from this. The Russians … I'm not sure…

^^This^^

Not clear, now. Back in 80s, Spetsnatz appeared to be V large force… more akin to US Marines, rather than 'Special Forces'… SEALS, SAS, Etc. There will, doubtless, have been 'Specialised' units. But, that was 80s. Probably pretty good troops… for Russia!

molnii i groma