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"Norman Brigade in Ukraine: armor identification?" Topic


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09 Apr 2022 10:57 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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Comments or corrections?

Prince Alberts Revenge09 Apr 2022 8:15 a.m. PST

There is a Canadian volunteer unit fighting in Ukraine called the Norman Brigade. I've seen some video of them advancing mounted on some kind of armor but haven't been able to identify what exactly. The video is brief and I think one vehicle is tracked (BMP or MTLB?). Has anyone been able to figure this out?

youtu.be/D9SuotPIS2I

Thanks!

Legion 409 Apr 2022 9:30 a.m. PST

Can't see the video ? Regardless, there is a good chart here, albeit it is in jest. It clearly shows a BMP and MTLB … TMP link

Also I check GHQ for some AFV ID too.

MTLB link

BMP link

BTW … didn't know about the Norman Bde. I first thought they were from France when I read the title !

Prince Alberts Revenge09 Apr 2022 10:28 a.m. PST

Yeah, that chart helps out alot…going by that I can confirm they are all indeed "tanks"!

Part of the problem is I'm watching the video on my phone. I see what appears to be an actual tank in the lead. At the end of the video I see what appears to be an MT-LB in front of the videographer's vehicle (which appears to be a BMP but the railing on the side confused me). Perhaps I need to watch it on a proper screen and pause it so I can discern more.

Regardless, interesting (brief) video and interesting unit!

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian09 Apr 2022 11:48 a.m. PST

…It was the first combat operation for members of the Norman Brigade the volunteer unit that Quebec-native Hrulf commands and might mark the first time any Canadians have seen action in Ukraine…

link

Also on Facebook: link

JMcCarroll09 Apr 2022 12:57 p.m. PST

Wasn't the Soviet BTR 50 open top?

Garand09 Apr 2022 1:32 p.m. PST

I don't think it was an MT-LB. If I had to guess, a BMP-1

Damon.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa09 Apr 2022 2:43 p.m. PST

Wasn't the Soviet BTR 50 open top?

Initially yes and then they produced a variant with a lid – the Soviets seem to build an awful lot of their first APCs without a roof and then realise it wasn't such a good idea..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTR-50

42flanker09 Apr 2022 5:31 p.m. PST

Norm!

Legion 409 Apr 2022 5:55 p.m. PST

Perhaps I need to watch it on a proper screen and pause it so I can discern more.
Yes that might help. The MTLB has a small turret mounted on the right front top of the hull. Where the BMP has a larger turret in the middle of the hull. You can see that in the GHQ photos.

Wasn't the Soviet BTR 50 open top?

IIRC there was a version of the BTR 50 with an open top or at least had large troops doors on the top that could open up. link


The BTR-60 had a version of an open top too …
link

Initially yes and then they produced a variant with a lid the Soviets seem to build an awful lot of their first APCs without a roof and then realise it wasn't such a good idea..
Yep … they may have learned the hard way …

Prince Alberts Revenge09 Apr 2022 6:34 p.m. PST

Here's a screenshot showing the various vehicles. Hard to tell what the videographer is riding on. Does the guy in the foreground have his feet in the driver's hatch?

Legion 409 Apr 2022 6:45 p.m. PST

Well AFV in the far left is most likely an MBT. T-72 ?

The AFV in front of the videographer may be on an MTLB ? The side does not look like a BMP ? The MTLB does not have track guards/fenders over the top part of the road wheels/tracks. The BMP is an IFV, it has firing ports along both sides in the rear where the troop compartment is.

And yes the TC(?) in the foreground has his legs dangling inside the top hatch. Sitting on the top of the deck. Been there done that … If actual shooting starts you can just slide down into the vehicle while closing the hatch.

The Hatch has a half moon shape typical of a lot of Russian AFVs, some even back in WWII. But I don't think the MTLB has that type of top hatch ?

BUT the BTR-60 does … link

Would tracked & wheeled AFVs be in the same formation. In the Ukraine … that would be a safe bet.

Legion 410 Apr 2022 10:40 a.m. PST

Errata : Would tracked & wheeled AFVs be in the same formation ? In the Ukraine … that would be a safe bet. And may other places as well …

Prince Alberts Revenge10 Apr 2022 12:03 p.m. PST

BUT the BTR-60 does …

I suspect you're right in the ID here. The BTR series has those half moon hatches and they also have railings that are evident in the photo above.

As for the mish mash of equipment, I believe the foreign legions are part of the territorial defense and would have less standardized gear. I saw images of TD units using BTRs and other kit that they captured from the Russians only days before.

Black Bull10 Apr 2022 1:06 p.m. PST

The "rail" and aerial points to a command variant certainly its not a regular BTR-60 due to the length of the roof in front of the hatch, the shape of the hatch and that the guy in the hatch would be kicking the **** out of the driver every time they hit a bump. The hatch shape and placement does match a BMP

Legion 411 Apr 2022 4:57 p.m. PST

Thanks for the ID ! So that is the top of the BMP turret … The BMP turret does have that half moon hatch shape.

Black Bull12 Apr 2022 1:16 a.m. PST

No not the turret, the left side of the hull the hatch is for the squad/section leader the driver is in front of that his hatch pivots rather than lifting up.

mysteron Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2022 4:49 a.m. PST

The vehicle on the left is likely to be a T64 or T80/84 or sub versions of these tanks as the Ukraine uses these as their main types . They are not a big T72 user, mainly being captured examples and now possibly NATO supplied . As regards the video looking at the position of the hatch ,I would say its a BMP but could not say if its a 1 or 2 .

Prince Alberts Revenge10 May 2022 2:46 p.m. PST

Interesting article on the aforementioned Norman Brigade. Sounds like there is a lot of disunity in the ranks.

link

Bandolier10 May 2022 3:45 p.m. PST

Yes, interesting.
Appears to be a lottery in how and where the volunteers are organised, supplied and equipped.
The Chechen volunteers (not the TikTok Kadyrovites) appear very competent.
Ukraine will now only accept volunteers with verified combat experience.

Legion 410 May 2022 3:58 p.m. PST

Ukraine will now only accept volunteers with verified combat experience.
That should be the bottom line … They need Vets who have seen combat. That makes a difference.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.