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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian07 Apr 2021 7:00 p.m. PST

You were asked – TMP link

There are many online forums for discussions of current events, politics, religion, models (not to be confused with wargame figures but those of the more prurient variety), etc. Would you like to see TMP, described in its masthead as a web-magazine for miniature wargamers, focus more closely on matters related to miniatures wargaming and reduce the amount of non-wargame material?

55% said "no, TMP is fine the way it is"
40% said "yes, TMP needs to focus"
2% said "no, TMP still needs to broaden its scope"

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP07 Apr 2021 8:49 p.m. PST

"How dare people on the internet not obey MY RULES for how they enjoy a website."

Seriously, whoever suggested this. Get help. I sense much frustration in your life because others don't live their lives the way you want them to.

Don't like those other threads? You can turn them off. It's easy, and doesn't force others to conform to your authoritarian ways.

picture

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP07 Apr 2021 8:58 p.m. PST

I enjoy how eclectic TMP is.
If I had my druthers, I would eliminate the barrier between the Plus boards and the main boards.
Why?
Although I disapproved of what he was doing, I loved when Ted Thrner explained why he was colorizing Casablanca. "Just to Bleeped text people off!"

As the Governor General of the Jesuits, Lorenzo Ricci, once said, "Sint ut sunt aut non sint."
Hey, those Jebbies (I went to a Holy Cross college, not a Jesuit one) had a way with words, in a Latin laconic way.

Arjuna08 Apr 2021 3:21 a.m. PST

What is Wargaming???

I remember a time, they called it 'wargamming' here, ask the OFM's


Well, let's see what Bucky said.

Let's Play War (Article on Nautil.us)

To whom it may concern or the bell tolls, you're not forced to follow that link.
At least not by me.
Maybe by yourself, but that is your problem, not mine, isn't it?

rustymusket08 Apr 2021 4:05 a.m. PST

To me TMP is a military miniatures forum. Some members are wargamers, some concentrate on dioramas, some on individual miniatures only, and probably a few other areas. Most of the areas of concentration appear to evolve around the miniature military figures in some fashion. History is why some people, like me, got into the miniatures hobby and with some history is something they got interested in because of the miniatures, I believe.

In a similar vein as John mentioned above, my horizons have been broadened by the various people on the forum. The international membership has become very interesting to me as different outlooks are brought out, which is good for me, as I see it.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian08 Apr 2021 5:31 a.m. PST

… my horizons have been broadened by the various people on the forum. The international membership has become very interesting to me as different outlooks are brought out, which is good for me, as I see it.

Yes, I agree.

I recently read, in a comment on a blog, someone complaining that TMP has too many Americans, and he just can't stand it. grin

…the right wing Americanism (I'm British so prefer understatement and subtlety) and aggressiveness…

Arjuna08 Apr 2021 6:23 a.m. PST

A well educated leftist or at least liberal British gentleman should know his Gore Vidal, so which right wing did he meant? [1]
evil grin

British Intelligence is obviously in decline since it became a second class Hollywood production.
British Intelligence (1940)

Thank God, they still have ze Dschermans (zad is one like me), ze real Masters of Evil!
Allthough I still insist we are not to blame for the Troubles.
Especially not for the current ones.[2]

By the way, that is just poking fun, but should someone be offended, he may call me a Nazi.
That saves him the trouble to argue or even to read.
Reductio ad Hitlerum on Wikipedia

Just in case I end in the Dawghouse for this funny rant, I'm fine with that.
I wanted to watch 'Black Adder' again anyway.
Just have to fry some right American Chicken Wings and chill some fine Dscherman beer…


All this is obviously beyond ridiculous.

[1]"Our only political party has two right wings, one called Republican, the other Democratic."
Gore Vidal (2004). "Imperial America: Reflections on the United States of Amnesia", p.50, CLAIRVIEW BOOKS

[2] The Trouble with Germans on theminiaturepage.com

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP08 Apr 2021 8:54 a.m. PST

The important question- are you right twix or left twix?

picture

Arjuna08 Apr 2021 9:14 a.m. PST

In the olde worlde we used to call them 'Raider' and I still do, since it is a more manly Brand name.
The rebranding must have been some early form of political correctness or some such.

Yes, I know it wasn't, but nonetheless.
Raider/Twix on Wikipedia

It's somewhat of a mild running gag for people over 40/50 or so to call it 'Raider'.
The automatic slightly resigned remark of all the same age is 'Raider is now called Twix.'

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP08 Apr 2021 10:43 a.m. PST

We had a Marathon Bar and everyone knew what it was. Then it became a Snickers Bar, to appeal worldwide. Never tasted as good after that

picture

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP08 Apr 2021 3:28 p.m. PST

It was always Snickers, named after a horse owned by the Mars family, I believe. The licenesed UK version became Marathon. Do they still deep fry Mars candy in the UK?

Rusty Musket is right about TMP as a forum, although not all the boards are military. Lots of history people here who know their stuff. And are ready to discuss it.

Arjuna09 Apr 2021 2:09 a.m. PST

They rebranded Marathon, you say?

Shame!

Don't they have any reverence for the ancients?

What would Herodotus have said about that?

The world comes to an end, sigh…

Legion 409 Apr 2021 11:01 a.m. PST

I find it interesting, etc., to hear viewpoints, etc., about a variety of topics from those who are not from the USA.

Basha Felika09 Apr 2021 3:31 p.m. PST

Legion 4 +1

I share the same sentiment in reverse and happily ignore the occasional snide dig at the Limeys – we've got broad shoulders and thick skins

Legion 409 Apr 2021 4:57 p.m. PST

thumbs up We long got over you burning down the WH back in 1814. Truth be told most/many here have no idea it happened … huh? evil grin So …

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP09 Apr 2021 5:22 p.m. PST

Some of us wish they would do it again.

Arjuna10 Apr 2021 2:20 a.m. PST

So it weren't the Canadians back then?


Forget it, I shouldn't follow that path.
Not my operational theater so to say.

How many people remember offhand what their ancestors did 200 years ago to pass the time?

Remembering the past is a function of survival.
And every time you remember, it inevitably changes the past.
It embeds it in a new and larger framework with new information and insights.
That's why you write it down.
To know what people knew and thought back then.
You never know if it might not be significant.
That's a task for society, but for individuals, it's more a question of how useful their memories are now.
So what would be the benefit for an individuum in its everyday life to remember historical events?
It's at least understandably not that many people on this planet do this.
So I'm not to harsh with them.
I'm probably one of perhaps a few hundred Germans that would know without looking it up, that in 1814 Canada and Germany didn't exist.
Not to say, realize what is meant with a 'burning WH in 1814'.

A bit more will remember there was someting going on in 1914, at least in the west.
I've yet to find a turkish migrant over here that has heard of Lawrence of Arabia.

So, allthough I personally come here, beside the hobbyist topics and my free language training, to have some interesting insights into the views of US American people from a broader population, I doubt you will have a somewhat matching experience with other countries if that is your interest.
I will find here a lot more of you, than you will find here of my type.
And I'm probably not your everyday, vanilla-flavoured, garden-variety German.


I'm somewhat out of focus, am I?

Legion 410 Apr 2021 8:46 a.m. PST

Some of us wish they would do it again.
On a this very rare occasion I will agree with you … 'nuff said … thumbs up

How many people remember offhand what their ancestors did 200 years ago to pass the time?
Many in the USA know little about their history, and in some cases it is skewed for a number of reasons. Deleted by Moderator

All that being said … again I like to hear what others than those from the USA have to say. Generally about anything …

Arjuna11 Apr 2021 3:18 a.m. PST

@Legion 4

I am still waiting for a proposal over here to rename various Immanuel Kant parks and streets to Che Guevara parks and streets.

We don't have that many Cuban exiles, so no significant resistance from that side is to be expected.

And regarding his thesis 'Of the different races of human beings (1775)' Kant could be quite a Bleeped text, so to speak, which is a nasty misogyny and politically incorrect, so of course I take that right back and say he could be quite an ass….

Deleted by Moderator

A few years ago, also an attempt was made to rename a Berlin street after a 17th century colored queen who defended her empire in what is now known as northern Angola against the Portuguese through clever and ruthless tactics.

It backfired when someone remarked, she was a slave trader.
So, sadly no Nzinga of Ndongo and Matamba street in Berlin.
Of course until some ethnically female or ethnically turkish or ethnically sociologist, working for a state, country of city funded institute, residing in some fine refurbished appartement in a gentrified Berlin Wedding, a former working class area, tells them female slave trading was emancipatory self-empowerment.

I suspect female members of the upper class in the Saudi Arabian peninsula agree with this thesis when they order new female Filipino domestic workers because the old ones are no longer as efficient, because they are too old.

Or too pregnant by the husbands of said upper class Arabs.

I have turkish collegues with German and Turkish citizenship that could rant for hours about their alleged disadvantage by German society and that at the same time couldn't care less about the Kurds in Turkey or Uyghurs in the PRC.

Meanwhile the German Book retailer Thalia helps spreading official Chinese propaganda placed by the Chinese company CNPIEC on rented space in its books stores.

I guess a lot of members of the Green Party, especially their 'right' branch see that as an improvement from their revolutionary youth, since a lot of them remember a time when they had to copy Mao's Bible by hand.

By the way, was that illegal back then?

After all, it was property of the people, wasn't it?

Thank God, the DARPA invented the internet later, so now you can download it for free…

I've done that a few months ago with Xi Jinping's 'The Governance of China', just for the whisperings of that old Marxist in me, that still tells me from time to time just to Expropriate the Expropriators.

Still though, no Deng Xiaoping street planned in the foreseeable future.

So there is hope…


I act accordingly.
Like a lunatic.
It' the only way to stay sane.

Germany in the 70's on Youtube

Sapere aude

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP11 Apr 2021 6:38 p.m. PST

Well, I don't know much about the great political divide, but I am not worried about Orwell. I am worried more about fundamental ignorance of history over the last couple of decades. It has been a while since I have talked to any young students who knew much about their own country's story. This is a systemic issue, not political, I think. Its not a plot, but it is a shame.

Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP11 Apr 2021 10:56 p.m. PST

Hey, I just want to see redundancy reduced!
Perhaps we could have smaller pages displayed if the six of the eight characters in every index forum were removed
[[ = p.m. PST]] .

I'm pretty sure that the convention of 'time' is well understood.
Neither dots, space nor time zone are that critical to the knowledge of posts…
That way I don't have to force a ~90% font size parameter to fit all lines in when extra large subjects get posted…

Now, back to our news story…

Au pas de Charge12 Apr 2021 6:33 a.m. PST

As we see today in the US, we are undergoing an "Orwellian 1984" scenario. Where history is being rewritten to suit more Left/Liberal, etc., etc., types.

I have seen no proof of this. This may be your opinion but what is it based on? No books have been rewritten. New perspectives are welcome and refreshing; they also happen constantly. If to challenge and question what has come before is to assume it automatically acts as replacement, then what came before wasnt very stable to begin with.


E.g. tearing down statues and renaming schools, streets, etc., is just one method.

You mean like when patriots tore down and melted a statue of George III? Does it make a difference what a school or street is named?

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2021 11:38 a.m. PST

The new perspectives, new scholarship, and writing are all welcome. The tech advances have made it possible to easily access far more detailed info than in the past. In recent years I have especially enjoyed Andrew Robert's Napoleon and David Blight's Frederick Douglas books for reappraisals of these incredible people. And most especially Chernow's Grant, who deserves far more respect than he was given in the past. Its not political, just good honest work.

Legion 412 Apr 2021 5:00 p.m. PST

I am still waiting for a proposal over here to rename various Immanuel Kant parks and streets to Che Guevara parks and streets.
😧

I am worried more about fundamental ignorance of history over the last couple of decades.
That is really upsetting and very true !

I have seen no proof of this.
You must be watching different news media than I …

You mean like when patriots tore down and melted a statue of George III? Does it make a difference what a school or street is named?
Well those doing such damage today are far from Patriots IMO. But I'm sure the Red Coats thought the same about the American revolutionaries.

And yes it does matter what a school or street is named …

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."
― George Orwell, 1984

"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history."
― George Orwell

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP12 Apr 2021 5:44 p.m. PST

Yes, I believe the nation was told not long ago that, during the Revolution, our army, named after George Washington, manned the air, took over the airports, rammed the ramparts, and was still at it at Fort McHenry, a long battle indeed. Or something like that.

We are challenged to hold onto our history all the time and it is no easy thing. Our discussions here help put this into perspective.

Wolfhag12 Apr 2021 8:49 p.m. PST

Arjuna and Legion 4,
STOP you're killing me!

Here in SF, they wanted to rename the Washington and Jefferson high schools. Homeless drug addicts are put up in the best hotels with food, drugs, and needles delivered to them instead of giving the real compassionate help they need to improve their lives. The inmates are running the asylum. I'm fleeing to the Free State of Tennessee in June.

I've found the non-wargame and miniatures discussion with other members better than other sites that are specific to those topics. At least I know I have something in common with them. I can truthfully say I've learned something over the years and even appreciate people who disagree with me. But darn it – sometimes I just can't resist being an a-- and making a snarky remark.

Wolfhag

Au pas de Charge13 Apr 2021 7:17 a.m. PST

You must be watching different news media than I …

Irrelevant because you made the statement that history is being rewritten and it is not. Now, if you're backing it up by positing media stories which are constantly emphasizing social anxiety and upset to drive up their ratings, then it further proves the point that history isn't really being rewritten.

And yes it does matter what a school or street is named …

Well, then you actually make the argument that a wider community audience should participate in what the street/school name should be. In any case, changing a street name is not rewriting history. It may be that some people dont like their comfort zones or norms to be altered or challenged but history itself hasn't altered a whit.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2021 7:21 a.m. PST

Snark is okay with me Wolfhag, a little snark doesn't hurt me, as long as it speaks some truth.

I think there must be a middle ground. They gave up on renaming Washington and Jefferson schools out there.
As Forrest Gump said about his mother naming him after Nathaniel Bedford Forrest: "Sometimes we all do things that just don't make no sense"

Legion 413 Apr 2021 7:22 a.m. PST

I have seen no proof of this. This may be your opinion but what is it based on? No books have been rewritten.
Again … you must be ignoring all the books, articles, reports, etc., about rewriting US History. Not for more accuracy but in a way that fits a Leftist, Liberal, even Socialist/Marxist agenda/narrative. One has to look no further than the critical race theory[CRT], 1619, Woke type agendas. Schools as teaching CRT at all levels, from grade school to universities. They US education system if full of Leftist, Liberal, etc., teachers/instructors, etc.
Irrelevant because you made the statement that history is being rewritten and it is not.

Volumes have been written on this type of revisionist/Left/Liberal. etc., take on US history. I'm not going to do the work for anyone. Look it up online, start with Chomsky, Soros, etc.

I have no problem at all with more accurate history, in fact I laud it. But this new revisionist CRT, etc. version is biased with an anti-US/Capitalists, etc., agenda(s).

It has even got so bad as West Point and the rest of the US Military Academies are have CRT, etc., in their lessons, etc. The US Military wastes time on this as well as a 21st Century "witch hunt" look for extremist in it's ranks.

After serving 10+ years, '79-'90 as a US ARMY Infantry Officer, serving in 4 "line" Infantry Bns. I was an ROTC Grad not West Point. Want to make that clear. However, I know how important training is and not to waste the time it takes to do it properly.

The US Army is even going thru a process of changing some of their posts/Forts that were named after CSA Generals, etc. There may be some merit in that? But the history of US has to be accurately remembered and taught. Without a revisionist agenda/narrative. But history is not black & white but many shades of grey. The good, the bad, & the ugly has to be in there.

In any case, changing a street name is not rewriting history. It may be that some people dont like their comfort zones or norms to be altered or challenged but history itself hasn't altered a whit.

Many today try to put our current standards, morals, etc., on what happened in the past. That is revisionist IMO. Many of our Founding Fathers were slave owners plus many in the North during the ACW really were not concerned about abolishing slavery. That is the good, the bad & the ugly of our history. It should be taught without bias. Just what happened … without bias, etc. …

One cannot use today's standards on yesteryears standards. That is where CRT, etc. misses the point. Teach what happened not what should have occurred with today's POV, etc. And as always hindsight is 20/20. E.g. some still say that dropping A-bombs on Japan to end WWII and save Allied lives was wrong. No … at the time it made sense, etc. But today it would be pretty much a big No Go. Get it … today vs. yesterday !

I'll clearly admit I'm a middle of the road Conservative. The far Right e.g. Proud Boys, White Supremacists, KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc. are as wrong in the their beliefs as the far Left/Liberal/CRT/1619/Socialists/Marxists/racial BLM, etc. are.

And don't forget Antifa. Not the version where people say/believe that Antifa is just anti-fascist. Yes, it is, we all are anti-fascists. Well most of us, but the real Antifa is anti-gov't, anti-Capitalists, anti-Democracy, etc., with most importantly an Anti-USA agenda. They are purely anarchists with socialists/Marxist leanings … and again Anti-US dogma and beliefs. Many don't get that. They need to study how Marxists/communists works to under mind an existing Capitalist Democracy/Republic, etc. And read 1984 again …

If one believes Antifa is just Anti-Fascist … you have fallen into the trap/have drank the Kool Aid. You are and will be on the wrong side of history …

I think there must be a middle ground.
Agree totally …

We are challenged to hold onto our history all the time and it is no easy thing. Our discussions here help put this into perspective.
Again agree …

"Sometimes we all do things that just don't make no sense"
That seems to be the norm throughout in many, standards, institutions, etc., in the USA today …

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2021 7:42 a.m. PST

I think this is pretty well said Legion 4, although I do not agree with all of it. This rewriting of history has gone on for a long time on both sides. The Lost Cause narrative of the Civil War for example. And it goes on. General Washington secured the airports during the Revolutionary War? I can picture people nodding their heads in agreement.

If we start with the truth as the middle ground, maybe we can come to a better understanding. And our schools should stick to the facts regarding history – never mind the theory when so many don't even know the basics.

Legion 413 Apr 2021 7:52 a.m. PST

I do not agree with all of it. This rewriting of history has gone on for a long time on both sides.
Yes, and discussing topics like this helps broadens our knowledge, etc., even if we don't agree on everything. I laud your reasonable, common sense approach to this …

General Washington secured the airports during the Revolutionary War? I can picture people nodding their heads in agreement.
Sadly that is probably true, again, most have no idea about even our most basic history. Plus it is well known that Washington should have used his M26s that he held in reserve in the defense of NY. 😁

The Lost Cause narrative of the Civil War for example.
Agreed, that should be taught as a "corrupted" belief that came about after the ACW. To appease, etc., the losing side … which regardless, were Americans too. That is another reason we named many US Army posts/Forts in the South after CSA Generals. Threw them a bone so to speak, IMO. Basically intended as an act of reconciliation, honoring the members of the CSA. As well as for local appeal, etc. We were trying to "heal the wounds" of this bloody civil war. For better or worse … The current issue of Military History magazine has a small article about this on pg.8.

And our schools should stick to the facts regarding history never mind the theory when so many don't even know the basics.
Again so very, very, true … 👍👍🖖

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP13 Apr 2021 9:34 a.m. PST

Thanks Legion 4. We share many of the same thoughts, and a civil conversation is a step on the road to some peace and understanding in all of the turmoil lately.

You are right on the money about honoring Confederates after the war, it was supposed to help reconciliation in a time of exhaustion and grief. I will have a look at Military History, thanks for the tip!

"Plus it is well known that Washington should have used his M26s that he held in reserve in the defense of NY." Agreed, I would have given up Newark Airport for Brooklyn any day!

Wolfhag13 Apr 2021 10:11 a.m. PST

History is being turned into clickbait on the Internet

Examples:
Everything you know about D-Day is wrong
The secrets of D-Day
The 10 things you need to know about D-Day
What you thought about D-Day is wrong
D-Day is not what you thought it was
D-Day was really a loss for the Allies
The Germans really let the Allies win D-Day
What the Allies really thought about D-Day
etc

Then there are the people that get their history facts from the commentators on late-night TV and Saturday Night Live.

Wolfhag

Legion 413 Apr 2021 10:42 a.m. PST

Tortortella +1 Yes we seem to see things very similar. I'd rather talk to someone about any topic where we look at things without "drama" ! I very much appreciate that … 👍👍

I would have given up Newark Airport for Brooklyn any day!
Well as I have said, today an invading force landing in NYC and Jersey. Would find the next morning all their vehicles up on blocks missing their tires and their radios gone … And the locals may be as well armed as they are ! Now that is urban guerilla warfare !

History is being turned into clickbait on the Internet
Yes, the internet is like many things. Once human get involved they Bleeped text it up ! 😖 FUBAR !

Au pas de Charge13 Apr 2021 2:03 p.m. PST

Again … you must be ignoring all the books, articles, reports, etc., about rewriting US History. Not for more accuracy but in a way that fits a Leftist, Liberal, even Socialist/Marxist agenda/narrative. One has to look no further than the critical race theory[CRT], 1619, Woke type agendas. Schools as teaching CRT at all levels, from grade school to universities. They US education system if full of Leftist, Liberal, etc., teachers/instructors, etc.

Volumes have been written on this type of revisionist/Left/Liberal. etc., take on US history. I'm not going to do the work for anyone. Look it up online, start with Chomsky, Soros, etc.

All this isnt very helpful. You made a claim and when I asked you for references your answer is you're not doing my homework? Have you considered if it is this opaque maybe it really isnt happening the way you suggest it is?

The 1619 Project and CRT are rewriting history? Either you think all the books on history are weak or maybe it is that whomever writes the latest book wins? I have no idea why a so called leftist, liberal etc cant be trusted to write a book on history or why history has to have one narrative to survive intact? Is it that people dont know history or aren't smart enough to read past the first book they get a hold of? I dont follow the logic here.

All the teachers in the USA are leftist? This sounds more like a fiction cooked up by think tanks to pit the educated against those without degrees.

I'm not reading Chomsky bc i have zero interest. What does Soros have to do with it?

Many today try to put our current standards, morals, etc., on what happened in the past. That is revisionist IMO. Many of our Founding Fathers were slave owners plus many in the North during the ACW really were not concerned about abolishing slavery. That is the good, the bad & the ugly of our history. It should be taught without bias. Just what happened … without bias, etc.

And quite a few want people today to behave according to rules and morals from the past. If you cant have it one way, shouldn't the reverse also apply?

One cannot use today's standards on yesteryears standards. That is where CRT, etc. misses the point. Teach what happened not what should have occurred with today's POV, etc. And as always hindsight is 20/20. E.g. some still say that dropping A-bombs on Japan to end WWII and save Allied lives was wrong. No … at the time it made sense, etc. But today it would be pretty much a big No Go. Get it … today vs. yesterday !

Hindsight is 20/20? What history is written with foresight? We used to teach that Indians were savages to be eliminated and now we dont; is that revisionism at work? Is it leftists? Incidentally, what is a leftist to you, someone you dont approve of?

I'll clearly admit I'm a middle of the road Conservative. The far Right e.g. Proud Boys, White Supremacists, KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc. are as wrong in the their beliefs as the far Left/Liberal/CRT/1619/Socialists/Marxists/racial BLM, etc. are.

I doubt you are. Youre certainly not a policy conservative.

The KKK is the same as BLM and the 1619 project? Oh dear, oh dear…

And don't forget Antifa. Not the version where people say/believe that Antifa is just anti-fascist. Yes, it is, we all are anti-fascists. Well most of us, but the real Antifa is anti-gov't, anti-Capitalists, anti-Democracy, etc., with most importantly an Anti-USA agenda. They are purely anarchists with socialists/Marxist leanings … and again Anti-US dogma and beliefs. Many don't get that. They need to study how Marxists/communists works to under mind an existing Capitalist Democracy/Republic, etc. And read 1984 again …

I wish I could forget ANTIFA.

If one believes Antifa is just Anti-Fascist … you have fallen into the trap/have drank the Kool Aid. You are and will be on the wrong side of history …

I havent fallen into any trap sir. You made a statement that history is being rewritten and it appears that it is so apparent that it isnt readily detectable unless you read Chomsky. I continue to buy books on history that have an interesting narrative and none of them seem to call George Washington a capitalist exploiter.

OK, so you have an opinion and it's based on the fact that you dont like certain social movements but really, no history is getting burned or rewritten. Let's just be up front here.

Legion 413 Apr 2021 5:09 p.m. PST

Have you considered if it is this opaque maybe it really isnt happening the way you suggest it is?
No, you are incorrect much of what I said is happening. I just don't need to convince you. In reality I don't want to convince anyone, just stating my opinion based on my research, etc. In many of our schools and universities, military, etc., CRT, etc. is being taught …

And quite a few want people today to behave according to rules and morals from the past. If you cant have it one way, shouldn't the reverse also apply?
How far back ? The AWI? ACW?, The '60s? Ancient Rome ? Obviously, not … you know that … ?
I have no idea why a so called leftist, liberal etc cant be trusted to write a book on history or why history has to have one narrative to survive intact?
Never said that … I'm more concerned with accuracy than who writes it.

Hindsight is 20/20? What history is written with foresight? We used to teach that Indians were savages to be eliminated and now we dont; is that revisionism at work? Is it leftists? Incidentally, what is a leftist to you, someone you dont approve of?
Again putting words in my mouth. History gets additional information added as the information becomes available. We know the example you use about the American Indians is more drama. No one, well very few if any believe that today. And you again are being "dramatic". Just because someone disagrees with me does make them Left, IMO. And whether I approve or disapprove of someone does not enter my "evaluation". What do they stand for ? What are they trying to say or do, etc.

I doubt you are. Youre certainly not a policy conservative.
Well that is news to me ? Enlighten me ?

The KKK is the same as BLM and the 1619 project?
Didn't say that all, don't put words in my mouth to fit your narrative. It has to me clear … one is far Right and the others are farther Left, IMO. And based on my experiences All lives matter. Unless they are trying to kill you than they are just targets. That is the way I was taught …

Oh dear, oh dear…
Condescending, patronizing ? You are wise beyond my understanding?

I continue to buy books on history that have an interesting narrative and none of them seem to call George Washington a capitalist exploiter.
Are those books being used in schools, etc., to teach history ? No they are not … You can buy any number of books on the market, that say many things that are bias, opinion, controversial, false, etc., etc. E.g. the Earth is flat. The Earth is only 6000 years old, etc., etc., etc.

OK, so you have an opinion and it's based on the fact that you dont like certain social movements but really, no history is getting burned or rewritten. Let's just be up front here.
Yes, lets be upfront here … Again putting words in my mouth to fit your narrative of me, which I think you writing me off as a far Right nutjob ?

Never said they were burning books. But much of what is taught in many schools about the history of the USA is being rewritten to fit the CRT, Woke, Left, Liberal, socialist/Marxists, intellectual academics' agenda and narrative. Surely you must have heard about that ? And that is not accurate … as I said our history is not black & white, but many shades of grey. And those versions of revisionist history are not totally accurate, and much is not accurate at all. Again to fit an agenda and narrative, that in many/most cases are Anti-American, Anti-Capitalist, etc.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian13 Apr 2021 6:55 p.m. PST

This appears to have wandered into a political discussion, which is not appropriate on the main forum.

If you wish to continue, please adjourn to The Blue Fez.

Legion 413 Apr 2021 8:38 p.m. PST

I was thinking the same … I've said what I had/wanted to. I'm not trying to convince or change anyone's mind. Just stating my opinion …

L4 … out ! 🪂

Legion 414 Apr 2021 7:03 a.m. PST

DOH !!!!😱 Errata: In my haste I made a typo … So for the record & accuracy …

I posted: "Just because someone disagrees with me does make them Left, IMO." …

That should read : "Just because someone disagrees with me does NOT make them Left, IMO." …

Thank you … we now return you to your regularly scheduled program … 😎

dapeters14 Apr 2021 1:30 p.m. PST

I supose we don't want to hear anything about Frued at this point.

Legion 414 Apr 2021 8:08 p.m. PST

Frued ?

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