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"Tango's contribution" Topic


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26 Feb 2021 10:30 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 9:42 a.m. PST

Now I did wonder why Tango's input had dropped off over the last 48 hours. No new topics on WWII, Vietnam or Napoleonics certainly. With the current state of the world I was anxious to check all was well and he tells me that most of his contributions will now appear on "The Links Directory". This is not something I was aware of, but, having a look at it for the first time I can see the idea. It is basically just providing a series of links, "as it says on the box". It seems it has been upgraded of late;

TMP link

I have teased him over the years, starting by saying that his input showed a 60/40 split between rubbish and genius. I gradually conceded it was turning more to 40/60 and recently even 20/80 in his favour. I will clearly have to find my way to this site, as it seems his future contribution is so determined.

The recent discussions here do show some strength of feeling both for and against his posts of course, but it would be "different" without him

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 9:55 a.m. PST

I missed this post, and have never given the link section any thought. I guess it does give a home to the "fire and forget" posts, but I am not sure what I think of it.

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 9:58 a.m. PST

I also enjoy Tango's posting, but am not as thrilled by his volume. I believe there was a suggestion of a voluntary ten post per day limit that may have helped.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 10:02 a.m. PST

I am very sorry to hear of this decision as it limits the scope of this, my favorite, site. As Deadhead said above I was frequently uninterested in Tango's posts but he often had fascinating tidbits. I understand his reluctance to waste his
efforts. TMP will be diminished by his absence.

Legion 426 Feb 2021 10:10 a.m. PST

I like Tango's posts … No one is forced to clink on a post.

Texaswalker26 Feb 2021 10:13 a.m. PST

I also feel TMP will be diminished without Tango's posts. I looked at the Links section and I am not sure how that is supposed to work for what he was posting. I've always thought that he added a lot of value, and have never really understood the negative comments about the volume – who cares, if someone doesn't want to look at a topic, don't click on it. Yesterday, without Tango, there were only 14 posts all day. Does that mean that they were more interesting, more cogent, more valuable that a larger number? In my opinion, not at all, they were the usual mix of things that were interesting to me, and things that were not. But with less volume, I am seeing less that I want to look at. I wish Tango would come back.

Personal logo PaulCollins Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 10:14 a.m. PST

After having a look at the Links area of TMP I am pretty sure that it will be an area that I will continue not to visit. I have visited links that I have found placed in discussions on the various Boards, but as the Links has no provision for any discussion I just don't see the point in using it.

Oddball26 Feb 2021 10:22 a.m. PST

I found about 1/2 the stuff Tango posted to be interesting.

Of all of Tango's postings, I find 1 out of 10 very interesting.

Now, you might say that only 10% of postings being interesting, but I know that people don't think that 10% of the stuff I post is worth anything.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Feb 2021 10:29 a.m. PST

I believe there was a suggestion of a voluntary ten post per day limit that may have helped.

I believe it was voted down by the community.

Doug MSC Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 10:44 a.m. PST

I like a lot of Tango's post sand I am sorry he is not on the main page as usual. There are a number of posts by others that I never read also. What is the big deal over Tango's posts? He is a vital part of TMP.

Sgt Slag26 Feb 2021 10:45 a.m. PST

I agree, I will likely not visit the links page. I checked it out, for the areas which interest me, and I found little. Never knew it existed before today. Will likely forget it exists, tomorrow.

Not sure how this will impact my enjoyment of TMP, but I suspect it will dull my interest, to be brutally honest. I feel this is a Solution looking for a Problem to fix. Cheers!

Doug MSC Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 10:46 a.m. PST

I like a lot of Tango's posts and I am sorry he is not on the main page as usual. There are a number of posts by others that I never read also. What is the big deal over Tango's posts? He is a vital part of TMP.

Personal logo 15mm and 28mm Fanatik Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 10:49 a.m. PST

I have nothing against Tango's informational posts, including the ones that serve no other purpose than showcasing third-party painted miniatures such as those taken from CMON but for the frequency and sheer volume of his postings which have the effect of pushing all the other forum posts from other TMP members into obscurity (off the front page) in a short amount of time. So these other posts have a short "shelf-life" due to Tango.

In light of this I have no problem with Bill's new policy.

Starfury Rider26 Feb 2021 11:00 a.m. PST

I am glad that he's OK, and that it's not been prompted by a real world thing.

No real point in revisiting the debate that always surrounded his post style. After a long period of ambivalence on the subject I found myself irked by several features of it, don't know why, just did.

As was always said, if there's no rule being broken, he was, and remains, free to post, and other members are not obliged to click on any posts beyond the ones they find interesting.

Gary

Personal logo ataulfo Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 11:16 a.m. PST

I miss his posts, even when they don't interest me.

John G26 Feb 2021 11:24 a.m. PST

Bring back Tango.

As Legion $ says, no-one I forced to click on the posts.

If I've understood correctly, the decision to remove his post was a community vote, then all I can say is what kind of a community are we?

A very sad decision.

IronDuke596 Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 11:29 a.m. PST

Have I missed something? So, why is Tango not posting on TMP?

BTW I totally agree with Texaswalker…

"I also feel TMP will be diminished without Tango's posts. I looked at the Links section and I am not sure how that is supposed to work for what he was posting. I've always thought that he added a lot of value, and have never really understood the negative comments about the volume – who cares, if someone doesn't want to look at a topic, don't click on it. Yesterday, without Tango, there were only 14 posts all day. Does that mean that they were more interesting, more cogent, more valuable that a larger number? In my opinion, not at all, they were the usual mix of things that were interesting to me, and things that were not. But with less volume, I am seeing less that I want to look at. I wish Tango would come back."

Grelber26 Feb 2021 11:33 a.m. PST

I just found and played around with the Links section. I find it kind of clunky, and I need to know what I'm looking for to use it.

A significant amount of what was interesting about Tango's posts was that they were links to things you didn't know you wanted or needed to know about.

For instance, several weeks ago, Tango posted about the Japanese chemical industry's efforts to make amphetamines during WWII. I don't really care about the Japanese chemical industry's efforts to make amphetamines during WWII. But when it explained that the Japanese were actually trying to produce the active ingredient from a Chinese herbal medicine, and that in turn, was used by the ancient and medieval Indians and maybe the Persians to enhance the capabilities of their warriors, it suddenly became a lot more interesting! I'm still following up on this one.

Grelber

Extrabio1947 Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 11:41 a.m. PST

I also believe TMP is much poorer without Tango's contributions. The number of threads is significantly down, and once you weed out topics in which you have no interest (WWII, SF, and fantasy for me), there's not much left. It may be the way I have TMP set up, but I only saw 11 new posts yesterday, and 6 of them were on the three topics I noted above. So why bother, really?

Plus, through Tango's posts, I was introduced to a number of excellent blogs I probably would have never found otherwise, and am now following a number of them. I'm now enjoying the work of several excellent modelers because of Tango's links.

This may not make sense, but if you didn't appreciate Tango's posts, you could always Ignore/Stifle him. But for those of us who enjoyed them, you can't push a button and create what is no longer there.

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 11:44 a.m. PST

I enjoyed Tangos posts – clicked on the ones of interest and ignored the ones that werent

Not sure the links piece will replace it

jdpintex26 Feb 2021 11:46 a.m. PST

Well now I only have to check TMP once a day or every other day due to the lack of content.

Links Directory is very under whelming.

Agree with most of the folks above, the site is diminished without Tango.

Personal logo aegiscg47 Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 11:57 a.m. PST

The other side of the coin is that I know gamers who left TMP because of his endless postings, so finding a happy balance is the main issue. I block him and it hasn't hurt my enjoyment of TMP as this is just one of many hobby sites I read each day. My big issue with many of his posts are that when gamers ask things like who makes the figures, what rules are being used, how do you make that terrain, etc., there's no answer as he doesn't paint or build any of it-he just scrapes other hobby sites.

Darrell B D Day26 Feb 2021 11:59 a.m. PST

I absolutely hated Tango's posts and his style. However, "Stifle" and "ignore" effectively removed them from my world and solved the problem. I would recommend other Tango "haters" to adopt the same policy and then the solution that is being debated here, and which appears to upset so many Tango fans (they may be deluded but they have a right to their opinion) would not be necessary.

We don't need Cancel Culture on TMP.

DBDD

Personal logo The Virtual Armchair General Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 12:02 p.m. PST

BRING BACK TANGO!

TVAG

Bismarck26 Feb 2021 12:16 p.m. PST

A sad day for TMP and our community. Perhaps, too prolific at times, but Tango was a great contributor here and to our hobby. There were times his topics were contriversal, but
mostly, there was always something one could find interesting.

Armand, Bill, please do what you can to bring back his return.

Armand, thank you for the tons of information and little small gems of information you gave us.

TVAG +1

Sam

Starfury Rider26 Feb 2021 12:36 p.m. PST

Well has he been actively marched off the boards, or has he taken a decision not to post in the same manner? I was under the impression that he had bowed out, but reading the above I can't see anything that says either way.

The stifle/ignore feature, and going from memory, does remove posts from a particular person from the frontpage listing, but does not remove them from the individual boards. So if you check out the WW2 discussion board for example, you will see all post titles, regardless of who you may have chosen to ignore, even though you can't read the content from that poster.

Gary

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 12:49 p.m. PST

First of all … thank you very much to Liam for his thead and to all of you … my dear fellow members who appreciate the work done in TMP … without your daily contribution … that would have been impossible … let me tell you no…. I have not (for the moment) left TMP definitively … I will visit it from time to time until a solution to Bill's new Directive be amended … what is clear …is he decided to neutralize my threads by sending them to a page that it is not visited … which is not very understandable … and that it lacks any attraction … consulted about it … in his own words … "This is a great improvement …."(to me) … .in turn I was blessed with a free year of Membership … therefore … I must understand that all this movement has been a reward …to which I am very grateful but as I made it clear via PM … I would rather return to the previous status quo … no offense … the Link Directory is a dead zone … so it will be necessary to squeeze a little the cerebellum to see how I can contribute without falling into that bottomless pit …. the strange thing is that it seems that only my threads are whom "disappeared in the air" and placed there … we must be vigilant to see how many of the other fellow members will stop there …. if the result is "none" … well I leave it up to each one to draw your own conclusions …the Japanese say that "every change brings an opportunity" … what they do not say is that they can also end up sinking a ship to hell …

Bill house … Bill rules …

Amicalement
Armand

d88mm1940 Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 1:12 p.m. PST

When I was younger, I'd go into a bar to find chicks to, you know. I'd ask one or two and frequently strike out.
My friend would go in and always score! I asked his secret: numbers. Ask as many as you can. He'd say, "Hey, wanna (fill in the blank)". He'd ask ask 30-40 or more. Get slapped 10 times, get ignored most of the time, but that one who was interested would make it all worth while.
Tango's "shotgun" method was a numbers game for me. The choice tidbits could be the best part of my day and kept me coming back for more.
How about a Tango Mark Two?
Adios, amigo!

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 1:23 p.m. PST

The new links directory is fuctionally useless for me and is the kind of decision that makes me scratch my head. I use TMP like a smorgasbord of all things miniatures- clicking the things I am interested in and scrolling past the things I am not. I've bought many things and learned about many more just by scrolling. Remember that the links directory is more than just Tango, Any link posting goes there now, which means I will never see them since browsing requires considerable effort.

Now there are just a few postings a day to the main page, which means there is very little left to catch my eye, and navigating the links page is like reading a text only catalog where it only works if you know what you want to look for.

If the daily posts remain this diminished, there will be little left to keep me here. If this is how you are going to run things, you might as well bite the bullet and go to a traditional forum software so you can better compartmentalize things, eliminate ‘the bug', and allow people more control of what they view and don't view, not to mention the daily maintenance down time.

I liked the way this site worked in it's old school time machine way, but the links directory ruins that enough to make the system no longer worth the trouble.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Feb 2021 1:31 p.m. PST

Any link posting goes there now, which means I will never see them since browsing requires considerable effort…

Except, of course, that the links are featured throughout the entire website.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 1:34 p.m. PST

I just went to the link feature. Good lord, who is going to use that?

Most of Tango's post don't interest me, so I ignore them. Based on some PMs, and some personal information that he has shared on TMP, he is at the top of my list of TMPers that I'd like to have dinner and a beer with.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian26 Feb 2021 1:38 p.m. PST

I just went to the link feature. Good lord, who is going to use that?

You're missing the point. You never have to use the Links Directory. The links are featured throughout the website.

Raynman Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 1:38 p.m. PST

I find it disappointing that Tango01's postings have been sent to the links directory. I, too, find the links directory basically useless.

BRING BACK TANGO!

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 2:05 p.m. PST

It is worth remembering that this is only known to those who visit the TMP Talk Message Board.

I did crosspost this to my favourite sites to address that, but they have been deleted. I can fully understand the point that this is not directly related to the wargaming of the Napoleonic Wars, WWII or VN. But it means the vast majority of visitors will not know of this change….or do the vast majority get to TMP Talk after all?

mjkerner26 Feb 2021 2:10 p.m. PST

From the Links Directory:

Two examples might be useful.

Let's say that a blog owner posts a link on the forum to his recent article about painting minis. He provides a brief description of his article, a link, and probably a few photo links. Experience tells us that this is the type of forum topic that is likely to lead to some discussion, including questions and compliments. This is a useful post on the forum, and can also be listed in the Links Directory.

Now let's say that a TMP member posts a link to a blog article from 2 years ago that's recently caught his attention. The post is more "look at this!" than a real discussion starter, and from experience, we know that this type of post is less likely to lead to a forum discussion, partly because people know they aren't interacting with the actual author. We feel that in most cases, this type of 'information' forum post is perceived to clutter the forum, and is best replaced by instead adding the link to the Links Directory.


You're just wrong, Bill.

JSchutt26 Feb 2021 2:17 p.m. PST

I always thought he was somebody's sock puppet……

Personal logo 15mm and 28mm Fanatik Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 2:33 p.m. PST

Look, it all comes down to this. If Tango's posts really mean that much to you, then working harder to access them in the presumably user-unfriendly Links Directory would be well worth the effort. For the rest of us who miss the pre-Tango days when saturation bombing of posts on TMP isn't the norm, this change is long overdue.

Garryowen Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 2:41 p.m. PST

I LOVE TANGO. BRING HIM BACK!!!

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tom

pmwalt26 Feb 2021 2:52 p.m. PST

I will miss Tango's posts. What he offered was a teaser (or precis) to the content of what was in the link in his post. This facet was the genius of his posts. Far better than just a link.
He also sorted the link into useful categories based on interest. There was plenty of stuff I never clicked on, but I always appreciated the work that was put into posting those topics on TMP.
I think we'll be a bit less engaged without his daily contributions. I hope we see a return to the previous status quo.

John Leahy26 Feb 2021 3:21 p.m. PST

Is just like to see him interact a bit as I'm curious about his thoughts on some of the things he posts.

Thanks

John

Personal logo Doctor X Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 3:21 p.m. PST

I found the Value to Volume ratio too low so I filtered him out.

But if others find his posts of interest and want to discuss his contributions they should be able to do so. People like me that don't want to read them have it all filtered out anyway.

It seems leaving them where they were would make it a win for all.

lloydthegamer Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 3:25 p.m. PST

"You're missing the point. You never have to use the Links Directory. The links are featured throughout the website. "

Bill, just went cruising through the website specifically looking for these links. If they're indeed throughout the website they are very well hidden cause I didn't find any. The new links section is, has been pointed out several times already, extremely clumsy. This is not an improvement and seems instead a way of reducing Tango to a shadow.

Wayniac26 Feb 2021 3:29 p.m. PST

My only problem with tango's posts is that they tend to be a bit spammy and there's no indication that it's just a blurb from a website with a link. So it is very easy to have a lot of posts that don't contain any actual substance beyond linking to something else and you don't know that until you click on it.

I do find his posts rather enlightening sometimes and I found a few websites that had interesting information I would not have otherwise discovered but I can see the annoyance of seeing a board flooded with posts and not actual discussions.

Could a compromise not be to have The post author displayed? That way if we see it is a post from tango we know what to expect which would eliminate the problem of clicking on an interesting title and it turns out to just be a link and blurb from another website.

Thanks,
Wayne

von Schwartz ver 226 Feb 2021 3:32 p.m. PST

BRING BACK TANGO! +1

Why does everyone get so bent out of shape about Tangos posts??? Are we now going to be the arbiters of Free Speech?
We are all grown adults, well, most of us anyway, are we suddenly so gutless that we can't just say, I don't like that so I won't look at that or more simply, that doesn't interest me? Does EVERYONE nowadays have to get OFFENDED because someone does or says something that they don't like or agree with?

Stoppage Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 3:47 p.m. PST

Freq Hz Yoga chakra – Solfeggio Frequencies (Tones)
396 Hz Yoga Root chakra – liberate fear, guilt, and trauma
417 Hz Yoga Sacral chakra – facilitate change and the undoing of situations
528 Hz Yoga Solar plexus – DNA repar, clarity ofmind, peace and love
639 Hz Yoga Heart charkra – the healing of relationships for harmony and peace
741 Hz Yoga throat chakra – problem solving and finding solutions
852 Hz Yoga Third eye chakra – re-balancing oneself with the universe and wider spiritual order
963 Hz Yoga Crown chakra

Choice quotes from this thread:

rubbish and genius

fascinating tidbits

introduced to a number of excellent blogs

great contributor

little small gems of information

choice tidbits could be the best part of my day

smorgasbord of all things miniatures

teaser (or precis) to the content

less engaged without his daily contributions

posts rather enlightening

I agree with all of these (albeit I've selected the pros versus the cons)

Personally, I'd like Armand to use the {url=""}Description of whatever{/url} so I can see what the link represents before committing to clickie.

Stoppage Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 3:48 p.m. PST

Oops – ignore the frequency stuff – I'm researching singing bowls (I can't get them from Germany any more becoz – Brexit!)

Tango01 Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 3:53 p.m. PST

What I would very much like to know is … what is the selection criteria to choose which are the threads that are taken de facto and transferred (partially) to the Link Directory?

On the other hand … Bill understands and accepts what we say here? … or is this a closed case …

By the way
"…For the rest of us who miss the pre-Tango days when saturation bombing of posts on TMP isn't the norm, this change is long overdue …"

In sight … there are not many … actually … the usual …(smile)


Amicalement
Armand

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 3:54 p.m. PST

He is not beyond criticism I would freely admit, whilst being a fan.

I have often regretted (and said so) that his posts are often just links and lack "added content". I would love to see some personal explanation of what is linked or, even more, some element of a critical review.

But his prolific output must make that almost impossible. There are postings that link to nonsense or irrelevancies or, perhaps what annoys folk the most, repetitions of messages from just a few days down the column. But these are far fewer than was the case and I found the Links Directory very hard to navigate.

I think he is, by far, the single greatest contributor to this forum and would be so sorry to lose his input. I would quote Cromwell to the House. Something like "In the bowels of Christ just consider that you might be wrong"

Doug MSC Supporting Member of TMP26 Feb 2021 3:57 p.m. PST

Bill,

Is it possible that you could change your mind and bring Tango back to the main page? I think many of us would be very happy with that. I have received a lot of inspiration from his posts here. It seems like other customers of yours have also. I guess we would like you to reconsider your decision.

Legion 426 Feb 2021 4:25 p.m. PST

Yes … please …

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