"[W.Foundry] Jaeger figures?" Topic

Ok, so explain this to me.
Russian Jaeger figures. (Now shipped by CastingRoomMiniatures).
We all know about the 1803-ish 'tophat' issue/ uniform that followed Paul I's tricorne/bicornes.

However, on receiving these models for a token one battalion, I'm surprised by the extremely large and wide front peak they've made.
This is neither described, nor shown, in any modern illustrations or books; nor for that matter does the vast array of 'Viskovatov' plates show it THAT well.

So where did the artist get this from; and should I be grinding down the excess to a 'normal' peak?
Before I finish my 'samples',
thanks dave

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For some clarification here's their ©photos:

‌RN547 Jager .

and a close up somewhat from pic showing the peak, if ever so blurry:

‌ru jaeger 1803_ Screen Shot 2021-02-11.
by DaveW, on Flickr
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Viskovatov shows precisely this at his illustration 1377

Ok thanks, I'll have to find that. Good to know I can carry on with mine.

Vol 11 starts at #1401, so while I have Mark Conrads text there's no pdf I can find of illustrations, nor are they footnoted in it.
Still atrange to me that such an object hasn't been clearly identified by now.
regards d

What do you mean by now, this light infantry Jδger shako is well known for ages, see also the series of contemporary prints by Orlowski 1802 – 1805.

Guards may be a bit different though

For the Viskovatov plate source, should be around on TMP

For colourised versions of Viskavotov:

Historical description of the clothing and equipment of Russian troops, with pictures
Edited by: Viskovatova A.v.
Original title: Historical clothes and opisanie Rossijskih vooruzhenija vojsk, with pictures
Publisher: Military typography
Place of publication: Spb.
Year of issue: 1841-1862
The multivolume work "Historical description of clothing and weapons to Russian troops, with pictures, was compiled by the highest commandment of" coming out in St. Petersburg in 1841-1862 Gg. Richly illustrated publication contains detailed description military and civilian costume for the period from 862 until the reign of Emperor Nicholas I, military uniforms, weapons, banners of various military units and military insignia.
Edition came out in the form of notebooks with the attached illustrations in two versions: in an expensive (Whatman, and figures on the Chinese paper) is a partially painted illustrations, and cheaper (text in French, drawings on wove paper)-with black and white illustrations.
All 30 volumes in pdf or djvu at: runivers.ru/lib/book3093

Illustrations by volume:
Volume 1 – colour
Volume 2 – black & white
Volume 3 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 4 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 5 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 6 – mainly colour
Volume 7 – mixture (most uniforms in colour)
Volume 8 – mixture (many uniforms in colour)
Volume 9 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 10 – black & white
Volume 11 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 12 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 13 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 14 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 15 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 16 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 17 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 18 – mixture (uniforms in colour)
Volume 19 – black & white
Volume 20 – black & white
Volume 21 – black & white
Volume 22 – black & white
Volume 23 – black & white
Volume 24 – black & white
Volume 25 – black & white
Volume 26 – black & white
Volume 27 – black & white
Volume 28 – black & white
Volume 29 – black & white
Volume 30 – black & white

What do you mean by now, this light infantry Jδger shako is well known for ages, see also the series of contemporary prints by Orlowski 1802 – 1805.

Thank you for responding vW.
I'm sorry my enquiry offends you, however I have never seen nor accurately described in any contemporary illustration or text from any source such a feature.

It has not, to the best of my searches, ever been highlighted on TMP, despite its completely unique physiology.

Described in 'English' sources as a 'tophat' style-design which itself merely implies the wider and slightly curled brim around ALL the edges and back (always referenced separately when to do so is completely unnecessary btw)- yet fails to ever mention the broad and wide extension of the front peak twice the size of any contemporary other style that I found on these models.

I've never seen another [gaming] model maker with such a feature in 40+ years of research, that is why I am completely perplexed. At any scale.

Given that poor research and lack of thoroughness we now discover is endemic in certain 'source books' particularly when dealing with 'foreign to English' topics, like German or Russian, I am not surprised. Any simple drawing of a profile or elevation could have shown the feature at any time.

You may well be correct about Viskavotov source, I just don't yet have any visual to them. I've downloaded or bookmarked what I thought were the definitive copies in recent months. Thanks for above.

Guards may be a bit different though

Whatever the veracity of this site (I haven't translated anything to validate):
Uniforms of the Russian Guard 1802-1805

The "Horn player and battalion drummer of the Life Guards Jaeger Battalion" show the broad peak best while the "Non-commissioned officers of the Life Guards Jaeger Battalion" (below) graphic does not.

Yes I understand that the Guard infantry had entirely been issued 'the new shako' before the 1805 campaign, contrary to the mitre/shako controversy of the line corps. And the single Jaeger battalion was included to be precise. (Also worth modelling in my opinion).

As to Orlowski, I've searched, various countries, "prints Orlowski 1802 1805" in various ways and get a broad selection of atrocious 'artwork', pornography and ugly faces, but few uniforms of which we write.

Yandex has yielded more I see, though even though many are just drawing on NYPL listings.
Thanks for driving this further, regards
dave

There are obviously two shakos, the earlier one – looking like a cylinder with a "wide" brim and the later one as shown by the non musicians of the Guard.

The early shako – is well known and depicted in secondary sources like Kriitsky and Gayda, or Viskovatov, or even Men at Arms, as well as recent Russian publications as by Ulinow in his series about Russian uniforms.

Another gaming maker, though 1 / 72 scale would be HδT.

However I admit that I did not research the Russian army in great depth.

There all the Russian experts left TMP – I recommend to visit this forum

link

There are people with great expertise about the Russian Army to be found and put forward your questions.

Again many thanks.
regards dave

HaT Jager infantry are ok. But if you are just starting out, avoid HaT. Their "early" line infantry figures are depicted with rolled greatcoats over one shoulder. This practice did not manifest until the 1812 period.

The correct choice is RedBox. They offer musketeers in shako, grenadiers in miter, guards in shako with the bush plume, and jagers. Hopefully, they will add cavalry soon.

I'll add this here: TMP link

Post has an update of sorts AND shows the book whence a number of snippets get shown without sources being divulged!
I'd almost be inclined to buy one, but the cyrillic scares me frankly!
ANyone done so?

The first link is blocked, the second works:
"Army and garrison infantry of Alexander the Great. Regimental uniforms"!

Thanks Widowson, I'm completing a 'segment' of Russians that fought in formations near the Austrians, not an entire army, but thanks anyway. Still have 40+ projects and nibbles to do on my French, which is a lifetimes work.

The very sombre uniform of the jaeger is so different- but I'm not doing them in 'lime' ! No criticism of the figures as they're all quite nice sculpts and larger than my usual Frenchies. I've had to adapt my painting techniques a little to make the most of the profiles and make the uniform parts 'rise' from their darkish state (black on green etc.).

To be clear I only asked the question because as I panted my samples, and these issues mounted, I thought I'd ask about the most obvious.

I 'believe' from sources used the figures apparently have 'other mistakes'- shoulder straps when the early uniform had none; and cross-belt on the right shoulder, not left as it seems it was 'ordained' that way in contrast to the line. Oh yes, and then they give two NCOs who look like they're supposed to be flag bearers, when of course they didn't carry any!

I also couldn't ascertain how the 'piping' of the turnbacks as specified was carried out. Viskatov at least had a rear view of 1807 that gave all edges the piping, though I'm tempted to leave it at the outer edge as most obvious.

It may not be apparent but I'm actually not being as strict about the Allies as I am about my French. Minor points that most won't even know about or observe I suspect.

cheers d

you certainly noticed how bright the light green is on the contemporary print.

WIP Update (a month ago!).

Well I'm happy enough with my 'samples' painting- chosen colour, techniques and the details needed etc. I removed some bayonets as well since photo.

These will wait now till I complete a few of the other 'nearly finished' (that includes stuffed and mounted!) projects already under way.

‌IMG_5086_sm Ru05_ 7t Jaeger_dev.

by DaveW, on Flickr.

I'll rescind my decision above about limiting the 'piping' on the turnbacks as I see most Russian coats in fact do have the multiple facets. Though they wont be made too obvious here.

Secondly I've chosen to follow an OB that cites only two Jaeger battalions in the 'Russian' 1st Column Avant-Garde Brigade.

While source OBs vary about the constitution of these, I'm using 'wargamers licence' to adopt this one. So the other battalion will be at this stage anyway, heretically, I'm planning on Eureka Miniatures (sorry WF) 1799 version in bicorne/ tricorne since we learned that not all Jaeger even got the 1803 version of shako!

Thanks for the support and guidance,
regards d

Maybe it is my screen, but they look quite very dark green.

Touchι …