| Trajanus | 18 Jun 2019 2:19 a.m. PST |
When the up gunned Sherman's were first introduced did US Armoured Divisions get preference or were they just spread around the ETO where ever additions or replacements were needed? Which in turn leads to question two. Did they come in ones and twos or by units arriving that just happened to be so equipped? |
| Walking Sailor | 18 Jun 2019 7:47 a.m. PST |
The first 76's were the M4A1 76w (HVSS), without muzzle brake, in Normandy.
The 76mm HE round was said to be less effective than the 75mm. Since the Sherman tanks landed on D-day were an infantry support (Armored Divisions came later), and it had been able to handle all opponents (so far, boy were they gonna get some surprises), the 76's were left behind on D-day. They were quickly sent across the channel in the next weeks and issued to replace loses in the Tank Battalions. All of which fails to answer a question about A3's. I will leave that to those with better memories, or who are closer to their libraries. |
| shaun from s and s models | 18 Jun 2019 8:09 a.m. PST |
i think it was much later in 44 when the m4a3 76mm was used. |
 deadhead  | 18 Jun 2019 8:43 a.m. PST |
I had no idea any HVSS was seen as early as Normandy (but I am just a browsing Napoleonic fan, who can hardly tell a Jagdpanther from a Jagdtiger). Great board to drop in on. Thanks |
| Garand | 18 Jun 2019 8:44 a.m. PST |
Slight correction: the first 76mm Shermans were M4A1(76)W. Not HVSS. There were no HVSS Shermans in the ETO after D-day, but much later. Also almost all (if not ALL) HVSS Shermans were on M4A3 chassis, as well as some M4 big hatch chassis. There MAY have been a small number of M4A1 HVSS at the very end, but the vast majority of these were post-war conversions for Nat Guard units. Damon. |
| Trajanus | 18 Jun 2019 10:25 a.m. PST |
Yes, HVSS M4A3s were not around until at least December 44 as I recall. Just as Brad Pitt. As far as I know there were no HVSS M4A1s until 1945. Great site for Sherman based rivet counting here: the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/index.html |
| Walking Sailor | 18 Jun 2019 11:38 a.m. PST |
Garrand is correct: no HVSS, they were VVSS. Sorry, pre-coffee answer. |
| Mark 1 | 18 Jun 2019 1:38 p.m. PST |
We have this same topic going (OK, a few days old now) under another thread:
TMP link Lots of good info there. -Mark
(aka: Mk 1) |
| Marc33594 | 18 Jun 2019 1:51 p.m. PST |
Actually the Pressed Steel Car company produced 1,465 M4A1(76)W HVSS. As you can see, by quarter, not too many would have made it to the ETO 44-04 210
45-01 600
45-02 625
45-03 30 By way of comparison some 3,084 M4A3(76) HVSS were produced so slightly more than twice as many. Of course, as seen, the M4A1 was rather late to the party making it much more scarce. I also found it interesting that some 1,531 M4A2(76)W were produced. Didnt think that many. |
| deadhead | 18 Jun 2019 2:21 p.m. PST |
It takes a visiting Napoleonic Buff to teach you guys about American armour (sorry… armor) in 1944. Now about the buttons on the coats of Gendarmes d'Elite de la Garde Imperiale…during the Hundred Days obviously…
HVSS simply do not look like Shermans. They look like film (sorry movie) extras in WWII, even by 1945
|
| Martin Rapier | 18 Jun 2019 11:27 p.m. PST |
There was a recent, lengthy, thread on this. My dim recollection is that the 76s were allocated directly to units in platoon (minimum) or company strength. They weren't doled out in ones and twos as replacements. |
| Trajanus | 19 Jun 2019 1:35 a.m. PST |
Mark 1, Thanks for the link, your long post on that other thread answers my OP. Sherman's are a total nightmare. A lot of documentation out there but the proliferation of types, manufacturers and modifications is crazy. Not to mention the designation not being in line with a usage time scale. OK they did the same thing with Panthers but even I can work that one out! It took me quite a while to realise M4A1s were around forever! 🙂 |
| Walking Sailor | 19 Jun 2019 7:12 a.m. PST |
It took me quite a while to realize M4A1s were around forever! M4A1's with HVSS (either as-builts or rebuilts) form the basis for most Israeli Sherman variants.
some 1,531 M4A2(76)W were produced The Soviets were Lend-Leased over 2,000 M4 76's. Stalin wrote to FDR requesting only diesel Shermans (A2's), the gas ones burned too easily. The US Army did not want the problems of an additional supply pipe line for diesel fuel and sent the M4A2's to "foreign users"; the Brits, the Ruskies, and the Marines. The Marines could run diesel engined M4A2's for two days before refueling, when they got the gasoline engined M4A3's those needed refueling every day. |
| Marc33594 | 19 Jun 2019 7:48 a.m. PST |
I am sorry that should read 1,531 76mm HVSS M4A2s. In addition some 1,384 were VVSS. Russia did indeed receive 2,073 of the total production of M4A2(76). The fact the Soviets wanted/preferred the M4A2 had nothing to do with the propensity of gasoline ones burning too easily. The problem with the Sherman was stowage of rounds in the sponsons, not the fuel. Russia preferred the M4A2 for precisely the reason you state for the US. Russian tanks, as well as lend lease ones from Commonwealth, were diesel powered so it simplified their logistics as well. Believe the numbers a bit misleading on mileage. While the diesel did get better mileage (approximately 150 miles on 170 gallons), the standard M4 got 120 on 175 gallons. The M4A3 improved on that getting 130 on 175 gallons. The real gas hog, apparently, was the M4A3E8 which got only some 100 miles to a tank. |
takes a look at a D-Day: German anti-aircraft vehicle platoon.
