Help support TMP

"Cruel Seas action (our 1st games)" Topic

22 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please remember that some of our members are children, and act appropriately.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the WWII Naval Product Reviews Message Board

Areas of Interest

World War Two at Sea

Featured Recent Link

Featured Workbench Article

Back to Paper Modeling - with the Hoverfly

The Editor returns to paper modeling after a long absence.

Featured Profile Article

Report from Spring Gathering VI

Paul Glasser reports on the debut of Axis and Allies: Guadalcanal and the North African expansion.

Featured Book Review

2,061 hits since 3 Jan 2019
©1994-2022 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2019 3:13 p.m. PST

Hi All,

Fitzovich and myself played the first two scenarios in Cruel Seas today. We played by-the-book, except in the 2nd scenario we had all previously-launched torpedoes moving together in the first phase of the turn (the Orphaned Torpedo phase). As it was, only the British were launching torpedoes, considering the only viable target was the tanker in the 2nd scenario.

So how did it go? It was fun, and so now I'm wanting to paint up some more boats…..and wouldn't that be Warlord's ultimate plan! No really, I'm juiced to get some armed trawlers done, and maybe in the meantime the R-Boots will be released.

This size/scale of models looks good on the tabletop -

We did have on one occasion a boat moving off the [non-objective] playing dimensions for the scenario, I believe because of rudder damage, so glad we had my larger 6ft. X 4ft. mat, as it seemed daft to stop the action because of that.

Critical hits are a fun part of the game (if they're "out-going"), and I was pretty hot with the "6's". If anything, they're those random occurrences that can really affect the gameplay, but seem to involve believable issues (and/so not just being limited to an exercise of piling on the hull damage). If we have a moderator who can witness the Crits in the future, we'll be keeping the results secret unless they would be immediately observable. So for example, no rudder counter placed to alert the enemy of your plight (this was Fitz's good suggestion).

We even got a collision in as Fitz's tanker smashed into one of my Vospers, so we tested a few of the Advanced Rules too.

Lastly, and maybe Fitz will have some more comments to add here, but the system is certainly open to easy tweaking. He's doing up a "Silk Purse" modified edition, while I stay closer to "official" initially so not to throw off the local shop crowd too quickly.

We have this public running of the game scheduled for a couple days away, and I'll be increasing the number of boats in those scenarios. All in all, with 3 boats on the board in the 1st game, and 4 in the second, the game was interesting (this is a low model-count that wouldn't work under many game system).

Fitzovich Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2019 3:55 p.m. PST

It was a good walk through of the rules and as FlyXwire points out the rules are open to easy modifications. Some as pointed out in other discussions are in my opinion more than necessary to provide some logic such as the turning of larger ships, torpedo fire & movement and slowing vessels down rather than riding a single toothpick at full speed after you have sustained 99% damage. The models are superb, the rules need lots of work.

chasseur03 Jan 2019 4:26 p.m. PST

I'd be curious to see your house rules. If you could, please post them.

Fitzovich Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2019 5:15 p.m. PST

It will likely be a good while before we get far enough along to post. What we have at this point is the original rules, the errata, David Manley's excellent thoughts, some of the other ideas that have been tossed around and our brainstorming. Some printed, some scribbled on a note pad. As mentioned we moved the torpedoes into the first segment of the turn as once they are fired they are on their own. I would think reducing the amount of damage that lighter weapons can do to larger vessels is in order as MGs are not going to sink a tanker on their own. Turn radius for larger ships needs work. I would prefer a card based activation phase controlled by the GM, FlyXwire prefers the current system both are valid. I agree with David Manley that the concept using the plumes isn't particularly useful. I would like to remove the To Hit table for torpedoes and just go with a dud roll (based on years) if you make contact. I would also like to adjust damage dice for the different torpedo sizes. When we get to aircraft I believe a whole lot more work is needed, but that comes later.

So there is a rough look at the surface of what is being considered.

Tony Adams Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2019 6:12 p.m. PST

Very nice work on painting the ships. Thank you for posting your thoughts on the rules, which definitely need some work. Could I ask what mat you are using for your seascape?

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2019 6:18 p.m. PST

Thanks Tony!

Here's a link to a thread about my mat -
TMP link

ernieR04 Jan 2019 8:22 a.m. PST

"MGs are not going to sink a tanker on their own"

it's going to take a lot of MG hits to sink a tanker . we played the 2nd scenario a couple of days ago and if i remember correctly the tanker has 85 hull points and an MG rolls a single d6 , 3d6 for twin MGs .
my poor tanker happened to get hit by a torpedo that got a number of critical hits and was left with only 13 points , which the Brits finished off pretty quickly !

the game was fun , quick and easy to learn .

Fitzovich Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2019 8:54 a.m. PST

Looking at the rules on page 13, torpedoes don't inflict critical hits. 6s are rerolled and that is added to the total of the original 16 dice rolled.

Yes, it would take a lot of MGs to sink a tanker, I just see a point where light weapons will not have any measurable affect on a target as such.

Joe Legan Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2019 4:59 p.m. PST

Glad you guys enjoyed it and Fitz is back in the fold. Your ships look fantastic.



Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2019 6:21 p.m. PST

Joe, we did but "Fitz in the fold" hmmmm. ;) :)))

Fitzovich Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2019 5:09 a.m. PST

I'm in the fold only as so far as to rewrite and cleanup these rules to recover my sunk costs. They are a decent set as a basis to start, lots of errors to correct and missed opportunities that need a hard look 👀.

Joe Legan Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2019 8:03 a.m. PST

I see what you mean. : )
That is exactly where I am at. The only difference between us is expectation. I had low expectations of the rules from the start. If you look at Bolt Action, Warlord delivered what I expected. A set of pretty fast play rules designed to be fair to both players that have some basis in WW II coastal actions. If enough people like them it will be commercially viable for them to sell more ships. ( I desperately need Raum boats. H+R doesn't make them.)
I am happy they are robust enough that I can rewrite them to what I want. Your suggestion about the +1 for HMGs was great.



Fitzovich Supporting Member of TMP06 Jan 2019 3:28 a.m. PST

Appreciate your kind remarks and having played BP in the past, I had no real expectations of the rules one way or the other beyond them being ready for the customer and completed. Obviously the errata indicated they were well less than that. I am stealing heavily from both you and David Manley as I work on my "Silk Purse" edition. I am looking to streamline the rules as much as possible, differentiate between torpedo sizes and eliminate the torpedo To Hit Table entirely replacing it with a Dud table based on the years of the war. I completely agree with your thoughts on reducing the D6's on gun damage and want to eliminate the D10's all together using 2D6's, replace the activation fleet dice with a card based activation system either assigned to a player or just to flipping for colors of the cards since most games would only have 2 sides to them. We did add the ability to fire before moving as a boat activates. I believe firing at any point along the move makes sense but I can see it as perhaps being cumbersome.
As I get thing more onto the computer vs scribbled notes I will be able to put them up or share them directly if you would like. My email is K-Fitzpatrick at
The Raum Boote will likely come along. Have you checked out what is available in plastic models? Lindbergh Models did a few many years ago and I have picked up recently their DE, LST and a US Transport. All still in the box, There is an LSD that I want to get as well. I am ordering from GHQ while their sale is on this month for a UK103 LCA, US46 LCVP, US47 LCT and the new G594 Assault Boats.

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP06 Jan 2019 6:44 a.m. PST

Here's a picture Fitz took on Saturday, and he was a real workhouse judging 3-4 of the scenarios at our event as I snagged new players to try Cruel Seas. Actually, we had a great turnout and no problem with players wanting to try the game (probably a dozen of our group enjoyed it over the 5 scenarios we hosted).

If Miniature Market hadn't sold out of their CS stock weeks ago, we would have had a handful of guys buying into the game on the spot. Fun time!

Joe Legan Supporting Member of TMP06 Jan 2019 5:20 p.m. PST

Great to hear. Will e-mail you. Great picture as well. Which one of you is the young guy on the left? : )


PS Where are you guys located anyway?

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP07 Jan 2019 7:05 a.m. PST

Joe, we're in the St. Louis, MO area.

I wish I had taken pictures at this event, to show the diverse group of gamers and youngsters we're getting into our games now.

Three young warriors (maybe 10-ish) played in one scenario on the Kriegsmarine side – we gave then all nom de guerres, and addressed them "in character" as they activated (w/lots of laughs all the way around).

Joe Legan Supporting Member of TMP07 Jan 2019 8:50 a.m. PST

Great! That is what it should be about I was stationed at Scott afb in 1990 and use to get into st Louis. Great city
Glad you had fun and brought some young blood into the mix!

Joe Legan Supporting Member of TMP07 Jan 2019 6:37 p.m. PST

How do you attach your flags to the ships? You obviously don't wrap them around?

Fitzovich Supporting Member of TMP08 Jan 2019 4:03 a.m. PST

Look forward to hearing from you and exchanging ideas.

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP08 Jan 2019 7:09 a.m. PST

Joe, I've used three methods -

On the E-boats, I used the cast metal flag/poles to glue a side of each paper flag face onto its matching metal flag surface (these 1-piece flag & staff castings come in the larger resin/metal boat kits). If/when I make more S-Boots, I'll use my own metal rod staffs, and the "wrap-around slide down" method instead.

On the Fairmile Ds, since the flag could be positioned far enough up on the mast before the intervening cross-member (and these I had made of brass rod too), I used the pre-made wrap-around method (the paper flag halves folded together and glued), and then slid the open pocket of the completed flag over the mast down into position and crimped there at a pre-glue-applied area on the pole.

The Vospers were the most tedious, and since the flags appeared to be located not too far up/outward from the fighting cabin, I wasn't going to be able to slide them down the masts, and since the lower section of the mast is thicker the "pocket method" wouldn't work or look right either, so…..I slotted the back of each mast with a Dremel-style rotary wheel (with a toothed, metal wheel bit). This created a slot to glue a pre-folded/assembled flag down into, with just a small edge of the flag front resting down into the cut slot on each boat's mast. I suppose a flag could be superglued (maybe with an accelerant) directly to the back of each mast too, but the slot helped me steady the affixing, and provided a trough for the glue to "pocket" within.

Joe Legan Supporting Member of TMP10 Jan 2019 8:21 p.m. PST

My wrap arounds look bad because the masts are too thick. Now I glue a strip of paper around the mast and paint it then attach the flag to the paper. Looks better. Your stuff looks fantastic

Personal logo FlyXwire Supporting Member of TMP11 Jan 2019 7:00 a.m. PST

Joe, that's a clever method/idea.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.