"Russian American War of 1904?" Topic

I was reading one of the Naval Wargaming pages on ace Face book and the players were fighting a hypothetical Russo-American War 1904.

Now being rather fond of pre-Dreadnought "what if" type games this intrigued. Now yes, you can always slap forced down on the table and have at it, but I do like the idea of some likely basis for the war.

So the question is, can you think of a likely cause for the Russians going to war with the United States rather than Japan in 1904? I must admit I'm drawing a blank.

Alaska? Seller's remorse?
Gold in them thar hills!

Gold mineral rights in Alaska – the Russkies reassert their claim to mineral rights after the lengthy period after "Seward's Folly" during which they believe that they were cheated. US says, a deals a deal. Russia denounces the Monroe Doctrine, then tries to ally with Mexico similar to the WWI Zimmerman telegram, in order to get Mexico back its lost territories. Mexico agrees secretly, and the US finds out, and war ensues.

More likely than seller's remorse to "justify" a Russian intervention would be bad treatment of the Russians who stayed in Alaska after the purchase. I don't know the details but I believe many Russian settlers stayed where they had set up lives. Suppose they were forced off their lands, etc..

Of course the west coast of the US even at that time was a hub of activity. I do not know how populous the Russian Pacific coast was but I would think attacking the US would be a lot harder than the opposite. What might spur the US to lay claims to the Russian east? Perhaps a preemptive move against Japan disguised as a source of "help" to Russia.

I may be out to lunch, but weren't there US troops in the Russian Pacific area around then? Either as "peacekeepers" after the Russo Japanese war or as a result of some other perceived threat? I know there were troops during the RCW but for some reason I thought there were some earlier.

I think a better naval scenario, and more likely one, would be Imperial Germany vs the US. It almost happened in the winter of 1902-1903.

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"I think a better naval scenario, and more likely one, would be Imperial Germany vs the US. It almost happened in the winter of 1902-1903."

I understand that Jane's Naval actually "gamed" this and published articles in Scientific American. Both Navies destroyed each other and Germany ended up holding Cuba.

Another one could be the US-Japanese War of 1907…?

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Sorry, not Russia though

Another one could be the US-Japanese War of 1907…?

My favorite. I had several scenarios and a whole course of the war plotted out (up to the mid-point – leaving it open-ended for gaming purposes, of course…). The two fleets are surprisingly well-matched, what with all the captured Russian ships and semi-dreadnoughts in the IJN, and the US soooooo far from the theater of the war (Philippines). I figure from a military strategist's POV, the Japanese would want the war has to begin by early 1908 so the conquest of the Philippines can be completed before the first US dreadnoughts can join the fleet and tip the naval power balance. Of course IRL Japan's economy was in crisis and her armies denuded after the RJW, but Japan was aggressively imperialistic in the early 20th C., so it's easy enough to push that attitude a bit too far, enough to view further Imperial conquests as a way out of their economic difficulties.

I can't think of a single reason for the Russians and Americans to fight.

For alternative Russian wars, I still favor a war with the UK resulting from the 1904 Dogger Bank Incident, and dragging in France (and maybe Germany). So many fun possibilities. I still mean to fight that version of Trafalagar 1905 some day.

- Ix

Trigger happy Russian Naval units deploying in the Far East sink a couple of US fishing trawlers (not unlike the British Trawlers they sunk in the North Sea). The US responds less than diplomatically by dispatching a a couple of battleships, a cruiser squadron and supporting torpedo-destroyer squadrons and a couple of battalions of Marines. The Japanese lend significant support to the US and the European Russian fleets are coming to the aid of the Russian Pacific Fleet. Vladivostock and Port Arthur are put under siege. The British Empire supports the Russian Empire from the 'upstarts' ….

US Raids are planned on Canada, Australia and New Zealand. USMC landings in Korea force the Joeson Kingdom to side with the US and Japan. Opportunistic Chinese forces plan to cut the railway to Vladivostok …. Meanwhile, a much reinforced British Far East Squadron is preparing to attack Hawaii.

Lt. Col. Tanner: "Two biggest kids on the block, sooner or later they're gonna fight."

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Did these two guys just decide to play a game and that was the two fleets they owned? With no background story to go along with it. History be damned. Just a throw down, lets play.

What's wrong with that?
With me, sometimes owning figures demands a scenario.

Have to agree with WS – After all wasn't one of the original purposes behind gaming to explore "what ifs"? What if we (Prussians) attack France this way?

No sense being critical of a bunch of us trying to work out a way to justify the scenarios, a common part of the fun of pre-dreadnought gaming is making up the background to the conflict. Besides extra credit for plausibility, a good background story can provide strategic context and/or suggest scenarios. Most of the GWAS series is built on such plausible fictions.

- Ix

Russia had influence and association with Hawaii in the 19th century and had apparently considered the possibility of aiding Spain in the reacquisition of lost colonies in the Americas-- maybe an intervention in the Spanish- American War would not stretch the bounds of possibility too far.

It would be more likely that there could have been a German American War. The Kaiser was upset about growing American strength and felt that the Americans should be put in their place. War Plans were actually drawn up during the period 1893 to 1903

Wiki has a good summary
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The late Robert Conroy wrote an interesting alternate history novel 1901 which provides numerous game cenarios and background See Wiki again

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