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"Does Anyone Still Play COPS and ‘ROBBERS’???" Topic


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Cacique Caribe01 Nov 2018 8:18 p.m. PST

I know you all did when kids, with finger guns and all. The bad guys were usually bank robbers, burglars and thiefs.

But I also recall playing with plastic figures (54mm) and later metal ones (25mm).

Of course, law breakers and those who want to push things to the limit have diversified nowadays, which provides even more gaming opportunities.

- Bank robbers and other heists
- Burglars
- Riot control (anarchists/antifa/skinheads/hooligans)
- SWAT hostage situations
- Urban terrorists
- Drug and gang task forces
- Etc.

QUESTION
1) Does anyone still play law enforcement and peacekeeping scenarios with figures and rules?
2) what specific scenarios have you played?
3) Which figures do you use for those charged with upholding the law?
4) Which rules?
5) What terrain? Urban? Residential? Industrial? Other?
6) Any other suggestions?
7) Got pics?

Just curious.

Dan

Stryderg01 Nov 2018 9:10 p.m. PST

There are some folks in large urban areas that are playing in 1:1 scale, but that's a topic for a different forum.

I've had a project in mind (which has never gotten off the ground), an old fashioned shoot-out in a 3rd world city of your choosing. It might work as a convention game with cut down rules and lots of players, each with a squad or two.

Forces to include: Local police (who may be corrupt), federal police (who may be corrupt), national drug enforcement (who may be corrupt), international peace keepers, international 'consultants', rival local drug gangs, local vigilante groups, local VIP w/ his security team.
Each force would have different objectives (arrest/kidnap members of another group, protect your stash at X location, raid their stash at X location, assassinate a specific target, 'send a message' by causing damage/terror campaign, make contact with X other group and bribe/pay them off, etc.

I don't really see any "good guys" in this kind of scenario, it would be more of a "how am I going to survive this mess" kind of problem.

mghFond01 Nov 2018 9:19 p.m. PST

That does sound like a fun convention scenario, Stryderg!

Cacique Caribe02 Nov 2018 1:30 a.m. PST

Stryderg: "I don't really see any "good guys" in this kind of scenario, it would be more of a "how am I going to survive this mess" kind of problem."

LOL. However, we already do a lot of that (Good vs Bad "alignments") with Fantasy and Sci Fi games*, so I figured the same could be for other fictional scenarios, even those drawn from real life roles.

Sure there are exceptions to everything, just I'm sure there are firemen who like to set fires too. And nurses who like to play "angel of death" with patients in their care.

But on the whole, I'll call those professions good guys and very under-appreciated too … just like those who try to keep our cities and neighborhoods from being overrun by lawlessness.

Besides, that was the point of cops and robbers and playing westerns with guys in white hats and bad guys in black hats. Each acted according to the part they were supposed to play.

For example, if my ship is being captured by pirates, I always assume that's going to be a very bad thing. If government troops are coming to rescue me, I always assume that's going to be a good thing. There might be the rare pirate with some level of compassion and sympathy for the passengers, just like there could be rescuers who might not really care much for the feelings and wellbeing of the hostages and civilians in general. But those are rare exceptions, not the rule.

Dan
* I'd like to think of Invading Saucermen and Vampires, Necromancers, Orcs and Goblins as evil. The individual players might not get too much into the part their group's good/evil/neutral "alignment" is supposed to typify, but there is still the presumption that they are cruel wrong doers, with the clear and open goal to create havoc, right?
Of course, everyone has a different opinion too, of who is expected to behave in what way, which is sometimes independent of facts:

picture

picture

picture

picture

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP02 Nov 2018 2:18 a.m. PST

No, I haven't, though some things are intriguing.

"Outland" type games in space seem interesting.

Special Ops too.

The present, and much larger actions soon to come against the drug cartels too, though those can be very, very brutal, so that could be a problem for some/many. From a tactical, operational, and strategic challenge though, and all the various permutations of corruption and complexity, it would certainly be very interesting. Almost anything goes – individual and small unit fighting to guerrilla wars and major police/military interventions.

Kevin C Supporting Member of TMP02 Nov 2018 5:57 a.m. PST

Apparently someone does, because there is a market for such miniatures and games.

For miniatures, check this site:
link

For rules check the bottom of the page on this site: link

Cacique Caribe02 Nov 2018 6:21 a.m. PST

Kevin C

And there are some options for 15mm too:

link
TMP link
link

Dan

Legion 402 Nov 2018 7:54 a.m. PST

I play well armed former Veteran homeowner prepared for someone to break into my house. evil grin That or an outbreak of zombies … whichever comes first.

Cacique Caribe02 Nov 2018 8:13 a.m. PST

I like that!

The part that the homeowner is ready, that is. :)

Dan

nnascati Supporting Member of TMP02 Nov 2018 8:26 a.m. PST

Isn't that sort of pulp era gaming? I often have police and gangsters in my games.

Wolfhag Supporting Member of TMP02 Nov 2018 9:11 a.m. PST

I heard there are some pretty active groups in Oakland and Detroit using rules with a very high degree of realism. It's all fun and games until someone gets a sucking chest wound.

Wolfhag

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP02 Nov 2018 9:31 a.m. PST

Dan,

The only problem I could see is who would want to play the scumbags? I think you would have to run it with the players being the good guys and the DM running antifa/rioters/thugs/blm/anarchists etc.

Is that how you were thinking it?

Dave

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP02 Nov 2018 9:46 a.m. PST

1) Does anyone still play law enforcement and peacekeeping scenarios with figures and rules?

All the time.

2) what specific scenarios have you played?

Riots. Cults. Heist. Hostages. Gang war. Raid (brothel, warehouse, meth lab, etc.).

3) Which figures do you use for those charged with upholding the law?

Lots of rebased 'Clix

4) Which rules?

QILS
Gangs of Mega City One

5) What terrain? Urban? Residential? Industrial? Other?

Terrain. Urban. Residential. Industrial. Dockside. This weekend it will be a gang fight at a drive in theater between the bikers and the hot rodders. Mega City One. Austere Colony Worlds. Indoors of buildings. Highways.


6) Any other suggestions?

Victory conditions are important in these scenarios. The acceptability of violence is different for the different sides. There should also be a "tipping point" where criminal violence reduces (possibly drastically) victory for their side – representing the community going from fear to "screw it".

7) Got pics?

Prolly …

Oberlindes Sol LIC02 Nov 2018 9:59 a.m. PST

StoneMtnMinis wrote:


The only problem I could see is who would want to play the scumbags? I think you would have to run it with the players being the good guys and the DM running

It could just as easily go the other way -- everyone wants to play the bad guys, not the boring and predictable good guys.

Oberlindes Sol LIC02 Nov 2018 10:03 a.m. PST

Stryderg wrote:

Forces to include: Local police (who may be corrupt), federal police (who may be corrupt), national drug enforcement (who may be corrupt), international peace keepers, international 'consultants', rival local drug gangs, local vigilante groups, local VIP w/ his security team.

The UN stabilization mission to Haiti may lead you to add a parenthetical after "international peace keepers" similar to those for the first three forces.

See, e.g.:
link

Oberlindes Sol LIC02 Nov 2018 10:22 a.m. PST

1) Does anyone still play law enforcement and peacekeeping scenarios with figures and rules?

I haven't played or run a game with law enforcement personnel on the table in a long time, and I've never played or run a peacekeeping scenario.

2) what specific scenarios have you played?

a. The police and security services were protecting the route of the motorcade of the president of a mid-level country from assassins.

b. Police were the first forces to arrive at the site where the king's spaceship had crashed, and had to secure it against looters and enemy commandos.

c. Police were patrolling the (Traveller class C) starport and inspecting trucks carrying cargo. They were looking for an enemy agent who was being smuggled off-world.

3) Which figures do you use for those charged with upholding the law?

I'm not sure. At least one looks like it came from the Judge Dredd universe.

4) Which rules?

StarGrunt II.

5) What terrain? Urban? Residential? Industrial? Other?

a. Half urban and half undeveloped land.
b. Small town.
c. Industrial

6) Any other suggestions?

Consider RPGs for games that revolve around the commission and investigation of crimes.

7) Got pics?

I will look.

Stryderg02 Nov 2018 10:56 a.m. PST

oooh, some of the discussions above made me think of "rules of engagement" for the various sides.

The West Side Gang is raiding the East Side Gang. The West Side Gang has a truce with the North Side Gang. Shooting at the North Side Gang will violate that truce.
-------------
The North Side Gang has a defense pact with the South Side Gang. (West Side doesn't know this).
------------
If the national police inflict more than 2 casualties against any gangs, the local police will defend the other gangs. (They shot Big Joe, you know, Tommy's cousin!)
------------
Obviously it would need a lot of fleshing out and play testing. oh well, one of these days.

Cacique Caribe02 Nov 2018 12:00 p.m. PST

Oberlindes: "5) What terrain? Urban? Residential? Industrial? Other?
a. Half urban and half undeveloped land.
b. Small town.
c. Industrial"

Do you mean like patches of "undeveloped land" within city limits, where wiseguys and other thugs might take people out for a walk?

And how small was the small town? What buildings did you feel were key?

Dan
PS. "The UN stabilization mission to Haiti may lead you to add a parenthetical after ‘international peace keepers' similar to those for the first three forces." True, same goes for UN Peacekeeping abuses reported in Africa in recent years. Just like with the police and other examples mentioned above, there are some bad apples even among those entities who are supposed to bring peace and security to citizens.

Cacique Caribe02 Nov 2018 12:03 p.m. PST

Dave: "The only problem I could see is who would want to play the scumbags?"

There are always those who are willing to play the part of Saruman or Darth Vader, or WWII Nazi troop commanders.

So there must also be some who would have no problem playing the part of a mobster or drug lord, or as the leaders/organizers of some violent underground group (anarchists/antifa/skinheads/hooligans) looking to bring chaos and panic (terror and uncertainty*) to the citizens of the city. Specially if they can create pockets or enclaves where the authorities are prevented from doing their job properly and the criminal element and their sympathizers can conduct illegal operations without interruptions.

Now, if there are riot-control figures in production today … surely someone must have included a riot in one of their games, right?

If so, I wonder if the various stages of real-life riots could be adapted into that scenario, specially those that include outside elements to escalate the level of rage and to spark the violence. Here is one such explanation on the anatomy of various riots:

picture

link

Dan
* We all know how much new business investors like to put money into areas with frequent uprisings … not. Uncertainty brings about stagnation.

roving bandit Supporting Member of TMP02 Nov 2018 12:44 p.m. PST

I regularly play Rebel Minis' Modern Havok in 15mm.
Drug busts, hold-ups, gang fights, etc.

Cacique Caribe02 Nov 2018 12:49 p.m. PST

You do? That's excellent!

Please do share. Give us some of your experience.

Dan

Thresher01 Supporting Member of TMP02 Nov 2018 1:44 p.m. PST

Yea, I don't see a lot of issues with people playing the opposition, for either side.

Drug cartels make BILLIONS, so have lots of cash to throw around to buy stuff, buy people, hire people, threaten people, etc., etc..

Groups that can build and buy submarines, other vessels, jets, helos, etc., and can set up global distribution networks, have a lot of options vs. the good guys. Not quite as many, but still a staggering array that is difficult to thwart.

DyeHard02 Nov 2018 2:02 p.m. PST

Irregular Miniatures has a line of Riot miniatures in 15mm:

picture


And rules sets for several different periods of civil unrest:
link

Sadly I have not had an opportunity to try them out.

I recall some board-game were "Public Sentiment" was the key to victory. This moderated the violence that either side could use. Forcing the hand of the authoritarian forces to a greater degree then the uprising side. I will have to do some research to recall the game. (It may have been a labor strike situation).

Stryderg02 Nov 2018 2:09 p.m. PST

A GB company did a line a miniatures: searching…found it:
link
link

hmm. facebook page was last updated July 2016

Cacique Caribe02 Nov 2018 4:08 p.m. PST

DyeHard

Let us know if you remember the name.

Also, those figures would definitely work! How do their 15mm figures compared to those from Rebel and Khurasan?

Thanks

Dan

Cacique Caribe02 Nov 2018 4:12 p.m. PST

Stryderg

That was so weird. With that first link, when I select to look at the pictures of the figures, I get forwarded to an "Entertainment Today" article.

Anyone else getting that?

Dan

Lion in the Stars02 Nov 2018 5:49 p.m. PST

I recall some board-game were "Public Sentiment" was the key to victory. This moderated the violence that either side could use. Forcing the hand of the authoritarian forces to a greater degree then the uprising side. I will have to do some research to recall the game. (It may have been a labor strike situation).

That would be a good one to have.


When I was working on the crowd rules for Infinity, I made it so that troops could hide in the crowds, could shoot out of them. But I also made it so that the crowds had a rather random reaction to events around them.

Stryderg02 Nov 2018 6:19 p.m. PST

I've seen that behavior on other sites. Clicking the picture opens a second tab to generate ad traffic. The picture opens in the first tab.

I should have put this in the first post: The range is "No Go Zone" by Warmacre Minis.

khanscom02 Nov 2018 6:34 p.m. PST

A few years ago we did a series of RPG scenarios using "Squadron UK"-- the "good guys" were superheros, and the "bad guys" were pretty high-tech/SF. Near future law enforcement; there were a couple of shoot- outs, but the role-playing was more important.

nevinsrip02 Nov 2018 11:30 p.m. PST

"Does anyone still play law enforcement and peacekeeping scenarios with figures and rules?"

Not me.

I did it for real.

Legion 403 Nov 2018 7:56 a.m. PST

thumbs up

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